Luhnow and Hinch Suspensions

[Amok]

Hinch was suspended due to him being manager at the time this was going down, and Luhnow due to the fact that the organisation was under his watch at the time it happened, so in the big picture, Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred should be punished due to this going down under his supervision with not only the Astros but several other teams as well. He should feel the wrath. But it wont happen.

 

Hinch was knew about what Cora and the players were doing and did almost nothing to stop it.

 

Luhnow didn't know about the trash can but there was e-mails to him about using the video room to steal signs.

 

Manfred issued a stern warning to all 30 teams on September 15, 2017 after the Red Sox were caught using their video room to steal signs. So there was clear direction from MLB Commissioner office to stop doing this crap.

 

Also Houston owner Crane directed Luhnow to address any issues and make that Houston wasn't doing anything similar. Luhnow did nothing.

[Dr. Dinger]

Luhnow saying he didn’t know about the trashcan is like a Nazi general saying he didn’t know about the holocaust. It’s not at all plausible, but even if it’s somehow true, he’s still responsible.

[Laika]

Luhnow is a coward.

 

"The sign-stealing initiative was not planned or directed by baseball management," Luhnow said. "The trash-can banging was driven and executed by players, and the video decoding of signs originated and was executed by lower-level employees working with the bench coach. I am deeply upset that I wasn't informed of any misconduct because I would have stopped it."

 

"I am deeply upset that I ignored the problem on purpose"

[Carlos Danger]

Players are paid for their skill at playing the game. To cheat is not using their skill to play fairly. Accepting payment for cheating to win is false pretences and those doing so should be punished in the same manner as anyone who receives payment in that manner.

 

Let me ask you, is stealing signs cheating in and of itself?

[rancher]

In true perspective it is cheating. There is no skill needed to play the game when there is an opportunity to sidetrack the rules of the game. It is up to the batter to determine where the pitch will be when it comes within vicinity of the home plate not the runner at 2nd or any other person to notify him of where that pitch may go.

Cheating may come in various forms but it has to be recognized as cheating and not part of the game.

[Dr. Dinger]

Went out of his way to retain a very thin plausible deniability that in full daylight is utterly implausible. Congratulations you just played yourself.

[Carlos Danger]

In true perspective it is cheating. There is no skill needed to play the game when there is an opportunity to sidetrack the rules of the game. It is up to the batter to determine where the pitch will be when it comes within vicinity of the home plate not the runner at 2nd or any other person to notify him of where that pitch may go.

Cheating may come in various forms but it has to be recognized as cheating and not part of the game.

 

I disagree, with you. The runner on 2nd trying to steal signs is a integral part of baseball. Hence pitchers and catchers switch up signs when a runner is on 2nd.

 

The issue here is NOT stealing of signs, it is solely and only the use of electronic aides to facilitate the stealing. Banging on a trash can has been going on since at least the 70s if not prior...

[Spanky99]

Let me ask you, is stealing signs cheating in and of itself?

 

By rule it is, but it's been going on and ignored since the 50's, pitchers hate when you give location, that would likely get a player plunked to send a message. Using film is on a whole other tier, brutal.

[Deadpool]

I disagree, with you. The runner on 2nd trying to steal signs is a integral part of baseball. Hence pitchers and catchers switch up signs when a runner is on 2nd.

 

The issue here is NOT stealing of signs, it is solely and only the use of electronic aides to facilitate the stealing. Banging on a trash can has been going on since at least the 70s if not prior...

 

I disagree that it's an integral part of baseball, it is, however, an accepted part of baseball. It also falls within the players v/ players dynamic of baseball. If you let electronic sign stealing go w/o punishment the next market inefficiency is going to be the team with the best Department Of Electronic Sign Stealing.

[Laika]

If you let electronic sign stealing go w/o punishment the next market inefficiency is going to be the team with the best Department Of Electronic Sign Stealing.

 

This is similar to an ongoing annoyance with instant replay. It needs to be a human decision made in the moment - it should have nothing to do with the dugout phone or a team's video review booth.

[Dick_Pole]

Gosh, reading this thread is so cringe. Criminal code links, Nazi comparisons and a whole lot of high-horsing going on. I'd like to see if you guys ever cheated on a test in school or cheated on a lover or used aggressive tactics to get a promotion at work. People here are generally in favour of Bonds and Clemens getting into the Hall of Fame but this thread is littered with asterisks and hoped bans for life for the Astros execs. Can't even keep consistent morality when it comes to baseball topics.

 

It's interesting to talk about the story and the punishments. It's also interesting to see if the very blurred line between what's considered cheating and what's considered smart baseball in terms of technology and substances becoming a little less fuzzy. It's not interesting to see everyone call the people involved basically pieces of s***.

[Laika]

Gosh, reading this thread is so cringe. Criminal code links, Nazi comparisons and a whole lot of high-horsing going on. I'd like to see if you guys ever cheated on a test in school or cheated on a lover or used aggressive tactics to get a promotion at work. People here are generally in favour of Bonds and Clemens getting into the Hall of Fame but this thread is littered with asterisks and hoped bans for life for the Astros execs. Can't even keep consistent morality when it comes to baseball topics.

 

It's interesting to talk about the story and the punishments. It's also interesting to see if the very blurred line between what's considered cheating and what's considered smart baseball in terms of technology and substances becoming a little less fuzzy. It's not interesting to see everyone call the people involved basically pieces of s***.

 

Let the people have this one, Dick.

[JaysAllMighty]

Gosh, reading this thread is so cringe. Criminal code links, Nazi comparisons and a whole lot of high-horsing going on. I'd like to see if you guys ever cheated on a test in school or cheated on a lover or used aggressive tactics to get a promotion at work. People here are generally in favour of Bonds and Clemens getting into the Hall of Fame but this thread is littered with asterisks and hoped bans for life for the Astros execs. Can't even keep consistent morality when it comes to baseball topics.

 

It's interesting to talk about the story and the punishments. It's also interesting to see if the very blurred line between what's considered cheating and what's considered smart baseball in terms of technology and substances becoming a little less fuzzy. It's not interesting to see everyone call the people involved basically pieces of s***.

 

Ya, lets have a free for all, who needs rules... smh

[Spanky99]

This is similar to an ongoing annoyance with instant replay. It needs to be a human decision made in the moment - it should have nothing to do with the dugout phone or a team's video review booth.

 

Hah, Ron Darling and Vasgersian said that this morning.

[TheHurl]

Based on the punishment laid out and the tone of this thread, it feels like I should be offended. But I'm not.

 

I am not offended nor upset at the Houston Astros sign stealing technique. You'd have to be one naive moutherf***er to think that this is the only time this has happened by using technology.

 

This game is so ass-backwards sometimes. As if everyone wants it to be like how it was in the dead ball era. They deny roboumps and try to put their head in the sand when it comes to video sign stealing. But you can look at video all day and night before or after games to find out pitcher "tells". Steroids of the 2000's have outlawed literally the best pitcher and hitter of that era from the HOF and they were unquestionable HOFers before using. But any stories from the 1970's are overlooked...or 40's or 20's.

 

This 100%.

 

Baseball has lived in this if it wasn't proven it didn't happen because baseball fans live in this "it's the greatest game in the world and should never change" world. Baseball has such a great history of cheating, embrace it as part of your story, and admit your legends did it too.

[Dick_Pole]

Ya, lets have a free for all, who needs rules... smh

 

I didn't say that. In fact, I kind of said the opposite. Saying it would be interesting to see if the blurred lines between what's cheating and what's legit become more clear.

[FrozenRopes]

This is worse than what Pete Rose did. Lifetime bans.

[Beans]

[Brownie19]

 

Who the f*** has time to write a poem about this situation?

[saskjayfan]

Who the f*** has time to write a poem about this situation?

 

There could be a few teams scrambling for a manager on short notice. Maybe Gibby gets a shot at one of the jobs. Baseball really could use more John Gibbons quotes.

[Brownie19]

There could be a few teams scrambling for a manager on short notice. Maybe Gibby gets a shot at one of the jobs. Baseball really could use more John Gibbons quotes.

 

It would be awesome to find out Montoyo was also cheating so we could fire him and re-hire Gibby.

[Deadpool]

Who the f*** has time to write a poem about this situation?

 

Sing to the tune of...

 

[TheHurl]

It would be awesome to find out Montoyo was also cheating so we could fire him and re-hire Gibby.

 

Gibby's Jays faced so many accusations I think you'd find that there is a better chance he gets nailed

[Brownie19]

Gibby's Jays faced so many accusations I think you'd find that there is a better chance he gets nailed

 

That ole wylie cowboy - you're probably right! Banging on trash cans definitely seems like something Gibby would come up with.

[Spanky99]

That ole wylie cowboy - you're probably right! Banging on trash cans definitely seems like something Gibby would come up with.

 

[Dick_Pole]

This is worse than what Pete Rose did. Lifetime bans.

 

No it's not. The Astros were cheating to win. There was no guarantee that they would win. The lifetime gambling ban sparked by the Black Sox scandal was due to the players throwing the games. Also, there is no explicit lifetime ban policy on using video and banging pots and pans like a two year old that the Astros were subject to. Unlike Pete Rose who was very well aware of the punishment every time he called his bookie while managing the Reds.

 

I'm a tough on crime right wing crazy person, so I would love it if you guys all became angry, reactionary lawmakers, prosecutors and judges in Canada. Drug user? 25 years imprisonment! Manslaughter? Life in prison! Murder? DEATH PENALTY!!! My utopia.

[wilko]

No it's not. The Astros were cheating to win. There was no guarantee that they would win. The lifetime gambling ban sparked by the Black Sox scandal was due to the players throwing the games. Also, there is no explicit lifetime ban policy on using video and banging pots and pans like a two year old that the Astros were subject to. Unlike Pete Rose who was very well aware of the punishment every time he called his bookie while managing the Reds.

 

I'm a tough on crime right wing crazy person, so I would love it if you guys all became angry, reactionary lawmakers, prosecutors and judges in Canada. Drug user? 25 years imprisonment! Manslaughter? Life in prison! Murder? DEATH PENALTY!!! My utopia.

 

Didn't Pete only bet on his team to win? That's different than throwing games.

[agrushcow]

Let me ask you, is stealing signs cheating in and of itself?

 

Is a linebacker knowing what play an offense is calling cheating?

[Muck Bartinez]

Didn't Pete only bet on his team to win? That's different than throwing games.

 

It sort of is, but not by much, IMO. Did he bet on every single game? If not, what does that say about the games he didn't bet on? What if he bet $100 on one game, but then $500 the next? Pretty shady stuff, and I think deserving of a severe punishment.

[Brownie19]

Didn't Pete only bet on his team to win? That's different than throwing games.

 

What if you keep your best RP out of games you didn't bet on so he's 'fresh' for games you are betting on? What if you sit your star in games you aren't betting on so he's 'fresh' for the game you are betting on?