General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[G-Snarls]

Pitching

 

Gose 4 closer and pinch runner

[Ryu In My House]

Is he still pitching? Or did he move back to the OF?⁷

 

I am still hoping he can be successful. It has been a couple years since I checked, but IIRC he was topping 98 mph.

[Laika]

Pretty interesting Sun article, shockingly:

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/bold-and-aggressive-blue-jays-ready-to-pounce-on-high-end-off-season-moves

[G-Snarls]

Pretty interesting Sun article, shockingly:

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/bold-and-aggressive-blue-jays-ready-to-pounce-on-high-end-off-season-moves

 

OK

 

They are HARD after Springer..

[Laika]

OK

 

They are HARD after Springer..

 

Cavan Biggio trying hard to recruit George Springer over Zoom, lol

[G-Snarls]

Gurriel

Springer

T Hernandez

Grichuk

 

Pretty decent outfield

 

Add a quality SS or 3B via trade and the IF starts to look really good too

 

3B Arenado or Bichette

SS Lindor or Bichette

2B Biggio

1B Vlad

 

Let's do this. It's going to be difficult to significantly improve the starting rotation

[G-Snarls]

And Goddamit Vlad needs to learn to play a position adequately. He can become a DH in his 30s but not now...

[Spanky99]

I am still hoping he can be successful. It has been a couple years since I checked, but IIRC he was topping 98 mph.

 

He also doesn't know where it's going.

[Spanky99]

Pretty interesting Sun article, shockingly:

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/bold-and-aggressive-blue-jays-ready-to-pounce-on-high-end-off-season-moves

 

God damn, thanks for sharing. Git R Done, Ross.

[Krylian]

He also doesn't know where it's going.

 

Worked for Ricky Vaughn.

[saskjayfan]

Austin Martin is a couple weeks younger than Bo and he's older than Vlad. He should be a quick to the majors guy. He had the off site experience. He could be a guy who comes up as early and mid next year.

 

I'd let Vlad start at 3rd knowing we have Groshans and Martin. I'd be all in on Springer and I wouldn't sleep on Realm.uto. If he's coming at a big enough discount, I do my best to trade Jansen. Still our primary need is pitching! We need to go get at least one starter and one or two relievers.

[G-Snarls]

Austin Martin is a couple weeks younger than Bo and he's older than Vlad. He should be a quick to the majors guy. He had the off site experience. He could be a guy who comes up as early and mid next year.

 

I'd let Vlad start at 3rd knowing we have Groshans and Martin. I'd be all in on Springer and I wouldn't sleep on Realm.uto. If he's coming at a big enough discount, I do my best to trade Jansen. Still our primary need is pitching! We need to go get at least one starter and one or two relievers.

 

Agree on the need for a starter obviously

 

It's hard to see where to aquire a top of the rotation quality SP this off season though. I don't see Bauer happening, every other free agent is a huge step down, and the trade market is tough. Darvish and Snell just had amazing seasons and though they sound like the most likely to be traded the price would be steep I expect.

[Ryu In My House]

Worked for Ricky Vaughn.

 

Just bring in "Crash" Davis to harness that s***.

[Jays24]

Austin Martin is a couple weeks younger than Bo and he's older than Vlad. He should be a quick to the majors guy. He had the off site experience. He could be a guy who comes up as early and mid next year.

 

I'd let Vlad start at 3rd knowing we have Groshans and Martin. I'd be all in on Springer and I wouldn't sleep on Realm.uto. If he's coming at a big enough discount, I do my best to trade Jansen. Still our primary need is pitching! We need to go get at least one starter and one or two relievers.

 

I think free agency will let us know exactly where Martin and Groshans stand with the team for the upcoming season. If we sign a big named OF and big named IF then i don't expect us to begin the clock on them.

 

Lets hope free agency goes well so they can take their time and be part of the team beginning in 2022 to fill in the potential remaining gaps.

[Rafters]

Gurriel

Springer

T Hernandez

Grichuk

 

Pretty decent outfield

 

Add a quality SS or 3B via trade and the IF starts to look really good too

 

3B Arenado or Bichette

SS Lindor or Bichette

2B Biggio

1B Vlad

 

Let's do this. It's going to be difficult to significantly improve the starting rotation

 

any chance of Gurriel moving back to the infield, Maybe play some first base if needed... If Springer was signed im sure someone is moving out but with those 4 outfielder and Vlad/Rowdy at first, Montoyo is gonna have to get creative with playing time and DH

[saskjayfan]

Agree on the need for a starter obviously

 

It's hard to see where to aquire a top of the rotation quality SP this off season though. I don't see Bauer happening, every other free agent is a huge step down, and the trade market is tough. Darvish and Snell just had amazing seasons and though they sound like the most likely to be traded the price would be steep I expect.

 

There's 2 starters I'd target in a trade. I don't see Snell moving. He would cost a fortune in prospect capital. Darvish is one guy I would target and Lynn is the other guy. Lynn at 9.3 mil gives a lot of flexibility financially to do other things. The Rangers might trade Lynn for a guy like Jansen. I'd give up Jansen and a mid level prospect.

[Laika]

There's 2 starters I'd target in a trade. I don't see Snell moving. He would cost a fortune in prospect capital. Darvish is one guy I would target and Lynn is the other guy. Lynn at 9.3 mil gives a lot of flexibility financially to do other things. The Rangers might trade Lynn for a guy like Jansen. I'd give up Jansen and a mid level prospect.

 

Jansen is worth more than Lynn. Probably significantly more

[Ray]

Jansen is worth more than Lynn. Probably significantly more

 

Sign Realmuto

 

Trade Jansen+ for Darvish or Carrasco?

[saskjayfan]

Jansen is worth more than Lynn. Probably significantly more

 

Lynn was a 6.8 win pitcher in 2019. Jansen was a 1.4 win player in 2019. 4 years of Jansen(who still has upside) might be worth more, but when you have the depth of catching that we have and a young player in Kirk who might be better than Jansen it adds complexity to the conversation. Add that to the opportunity to get the best catcher in baseball, and I'll make that trade in a heart beat. A go for it move for one year.

 

Lynn at 9.3 and Realmuto at 20 gives you to 5 win players to add to the core with just shy of 30 mil committed. You'd still have 30 to 50 mil potentially to play with to add to a pretty stacked team.

[connorp]

There’d definitely be an old school/new school divide on the Rangers/Cubs message boards if you traded either of those guys with DJ being the main/or only piece.

[L54]

If Danny Jansen is traded you need a player with years of control coming back. Throwing him away for a one year rental is a gross thought.

 

Marquez, Darvish, Musgrove, Gray or someone like that.

 

Jansen + Manoah is a pretty good package

[Laika]

Lynn was a 6.8 win pitcher in 2019. Jansen was a 1.4 win player in 2019. 4 years of Jansen(who still has upside) might be worth more, but when you have the depth of catching that we have and a young player in Kirk who might be better than Jansen it adds complexity to the conversation. Add that to the opportunity to get the best catcher in baseball, and I'll make that trade in a heart beat. A go for it move for one year.

 

Lynn at 9.3 and Realmuto at 20 gives you to 5 win players to add to the core with just shy of 30 mil committed. You'd still have 30 to 50 mil potentially to play with to add to a pretty stacked team.

 

And Lynn was not nearly that good in 2020, or 2018, or any other time in his career.

 

Toronto just isn't in the position to be trading very valuable futures for one year of an older pitcher. Lynn is solid and he's on a nice 2020 contract but Jansen is worth twice as much as him in trade and Toronto will be targeting players who can grow with the team or help them over the next few years

[saskjayfan]

And Lynn was not nearly that good in 2020, or 2018, or any other time in his career.

 

Toronto just isn't in the position to be trading very valuable futures for one year of an older pitcher. Lynn is solid and he's on a nice 2020 contract but Jansen is worth twice as much as him in trade and Toronto will be targeting players who can grow with the team or help them over the next few years

 

It's possible I'm over rating Lynn, but I think you might be over rating Jansen. Lynn has a career 3.62 FIP. Jansen might never be a 2 win player. In 2022 he might be considered a back up who plays 50 games if Kirk passes him. Lynn is a solid 2/3 type pitcher for 9 mil. The mets are paying double that for Stroman. One year for a guy who meaningfully upgrades your rotation at a cost of 2ish mil per win.

 

How are we not in a position to trading valuable futures for one year of an older pitcher? If we signed JTR or a Springer, signed a Paxton and a couple relievers a guy like Lynn could be putting you over the top.

[max silver]

It's possible I'm over rating Lynn, but I think you might be over rating Jansen. Lynn has a career 3.62 FIP. Jansen might never be a 2 win player. In 2022 he might be considered a back up who plays 50 games if Kirk passes him. Lynn is a solid 2/3 type pitcher for 9 mil. The mets are paying double that for Stroman. One year for a guy who meaningfully upgrades your rotation at a cost of 2ish mil per win.

 

How are we not in a position to trading valuable futures for one year of an older pitcher? If we signed JTR or a Springer, signed a Paxton and a couple relievers a guy like Lynn could be putting you over the top.

 

You are really underrating Jansen to a large degree. He has likely been baseballs least lucky hitter the last 2 seasons. If his BABIP was more in the realm of normalcy given his quality of contact and BB/K rates he is likely to be a very effective overall player. I'm in no means against trading him to upgrade the roster elsewhere, but it would be lunacy to give him away for a pitcher with 1 year of control.

[Laika]

How are we not in a position to trading valuable futures for one year of an older pitcher? If we signed JTR or a Springer, signed a Paxton and a couple relievers a guy like Lynn could be putting you over the top.

 

Well... Toronto hasn't done those things. Even if they do, they can do better than Lynn if they are shipping out Jansen.

[Jays24]

any chance of Gurriel moving back to the infield, Maybe play some first base if needed... If Springer was signed im sure someone is moving out but with those 4 outfielder and Vlad/Rowdy at first, Montoyo is gonna have to get creative with playing time and DH

 

Moving Gurriel who was just nominated for a gold glove (as questionable as that may be) doesnt make sense. His value as a corner outfielder is much higher than a 1B.

 

Also his arm is a cannon and it would be a waste at 1B. I forget how he looked at 2B but maybe 3B could be possible?

[Spanky99]

There’d definitely be an old school/new school divide on the Rangers/Cubs message boards if you traded either of those guys with DJ being the main/or only piece.

 

Kind of like you're having right now...

 

Lynn is not worth DJ, he's a rental.

[saskjayfan]

You are really underrating Jansen to a large degree. He has likely been baseballs least lucky hitter the last 2 seasons. If his BABIP was more in the realm of normalcy given his quality of contact and BB/K rates he is likely to be a very effective overall player. I'm in no means against trading him to upgrade the roster elsewhere, but it would be lunacy to give him away for a pitcher with 1 year of control.

 

Fine, I can capitulate. Jansen's exit velocity wasn't great last year though. Part of the premise in trading Jansen was signing JTR and my belief in Kirk. If we didn't have Kirk it would be a different story. Lynn next year would be a couple win upgrade and his cheap contract was a factor. I think the team could be real contenders in the East. Over 4 years sure Jansen will put up 6 to 8 wins as a floor and could make meaningful improvement and be much better than that. Ideally move Jansen in a package for Darvish or Snell first. We're going to need starting pitching next year to compete.

 

I wouldn't have to throw out these utter lunacy trade ideas if the MLB free agent market was actually moving!

[connorp]

Kind of like you're having right now...

 

Lynn is not worth DJ, he's a rental.

 

I’m just good at putting myself in other’s shoes.

If Jays were looking towards the future and had an asset like Lynn, most would not be happy with DJ as the return. It’s not so much the mathematics of is Player A going to provide more value than Player B.

Most would would rather have a prospect/player with more of their luster still there, even if they’re couple levels away

DJ’s scouting reports had him as average C and now you’re projecting a lot of value based on fairly sss of defensive data.

If he can’t hit better (projected below avg at 26 even with benefit of bb rate last year he prob won’t keep up), he’s looking like a backup C that won’t be in the lineup enough to prove his defensive worth.

[Spanky99]

I’m just good at putting myself in other’s shoes.

If Jays were looking towards the future and had an asset like Lynn, most would not be happy with DJ as the return. It’s not so much the mathematics of is Player A going to provide more value than Player B.

Most would would rather have a prospect/player with more of their luster still there, even if they’re couple levels away

DJ’s scouting reports had him as average C and now you’re projecting a lot of value based on fairly sss of defensive data.

If he can’t hit better (projected below avg at 26 even with benefit of bb rate last year he prob won’t keep up), he’s looking like a backup C that won’t be in the lineup enough to prove his defensive worth.

 

Who cares what fans think, you're looking at it through a different lens, his value is higher than Lynn? Nice c-poop projection there bro, lol. TIL... 50 FV is avridge!!!