General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[glory]

If everyone is healthy, we will probably see Ryu, Shoemaker, and pick one at random between Walker, Stripling, Ray, Anderson, and Roark (hopefully not Roark) in the Wild Card Series.

 

Teams with rotation depth are going to benefit from this playoff format (ex. Cleveland).

[The Cats Ass]

Somehow we just traded Justin Miller to the Reds for International Cap Space.

[Dokken]

I know the reply will be something nonsensical like "all of those runs are Fisher's fault!" but hopefully seeing Taijuan Walker fold like a cheap lawn chair and get his depressingly mediocre pitches demolished by the Yankees has convinced a few people that he's not worth investing in after this year.

 

It's just not a good bag of pitches. It works if you're looking for a back-end SP who you'd never want to have start a playoff game.

 

I remember he got it to 2 outs with the score still 1-1, then a sinking line drive by Wade to RF and a sharp single by Lemahieu - then he just mailed it in from there (although he had thrown so many pitches already, it might not be fair to be too harsh on him by that point). If that ball hit by Wade stays in the air a bit longer (and Fisher actually catches it) they get out of it tied 1-1.

 

I am more concerned about Walker's mental toughness and attitude than his pitching ability at this point. Fisher I think just can't hack it mentally - not a coincidence that he went to s*** in what everyone knew was a big game.

[Dokken]

Walker has no stuff. Can't miss bats.

 

yeah the Jays have a lot of starting pitchers who are the same right now. As s***** as Walker may be, he is probably still the 2nd best starter on the active roster currently (although that doesn't include Borucki or Kay or Hatch, or ......)

[saskjayfan]

yeah the Jays have a lot of starting pitchers who are the same right now. As s***** as Walker may be, he is probably still the 2nd best starter on the active roster currently (although that doesn't include Borucki or Kay or Hatch, or ......)

 

Robbie Ray is the guy. We're basically going to have to throw him out there and cross our fingers and our toes. If we get the good Robbie Ray, he can be dominant. The bad and the game could be over in 2 innings! With no off days we're going to need 4 starting pitchers in a 5 game series assuming we get past the best of 3. We're also going to have to ask Ryu to pitch on short rest in that scenario! It's probably Ryu, shoe, ray, walker Ryu.....stripling or anderson could be in there replacing one of those 3.

[Dokken]

Robbie Ray is the guy. We're basically going to have to throw him out there and cross our fingers and our toes. If we get the good Robbie Ray, he can be dominant. The bad and the game could be over in 2 innings! With no off days we're going to need 4 starting pitchers in a 5 game series assuming we get past the best of 3. We're also going to have to ask Ryu to pitch on short rest in that scenario! It's probably Ryu, shoe, ray, walker Ryu.....stripling or anderson could be in there replacing one of those 3.

 

Yeah when on his game as he was last outing, Ray is impressive. I hope the Jays don't overuse Ryu, with his long injury history, because he is too important to the team in the next couple years when they hopefully will be more legit championship contenders.

[BTS]

Weird year for the bullpen so far. Outside of Romano, who was excellent across the board before getting hurt, it's a bunch of guys with sparkling ERAs that look like mirages. Dolis, Bass, Cole, Hatch, and Borucki all have ERAs under 3 and xFIPs over 4, and Hatch and Borucki are over 5. We've seen Kay's terrible pitching bite him recently, and the team is in trouble if the same happens to the others.

[Krylian]

Weird year for the bullpen so far. Outside of Romano, who was excellent across the board before getting hurt, it's a bunch of guys with sparkling ERAs that look like mirages. Dolis, Bass, Cole, Hatch, and Borucki all have ERAs under 3 and xFIPs over 4, and Hatch and Borucki are over 5. We've seen Kay's terrible pitching bite him recently, and the team is in trouble if the same happens to the others.

 

The truth is in the middle.

[Boxcar]

Weird year for the bullpen so far. Outside of Romano, who was excellent across the board before getting hurt, it's a bunch of guys with sparkling ERAs that look like mirages. Dolis, Bass, Cole, Hatch, and Borucki all have ERAs under 3 and xFIPs over 4, and Hatch and Borucki are over 5. We've seen Kay's terrible pitching bite him recently, and the team is in trouble if the same happens to the others.

 

xFIP is a dinosaur stat

[BigCecil]

Grichuk is turning back into Grichuk, as his 108 wRC+ sinks towards his 105 career #.

 

Just a good reminder for me how hot streaks and small sample sizes mean jack s*** most times. Love to see him get hot again.

[Boxcar]

Grichuk is turning back into Grichuk, as his 108 wRC+ sinks towards his 105 career #.

 

Just a good reminder for me how hot streaks and small sample sizes mean jack s*** most times. Love to see him get hot again.

 

Yeah, he's a hard player to cheer for. I mean, I don't think anyone really believed deep down that he was going to maintain his success, but we were willing to buy into dumb narratives like "letting the ball travel" and "focusing on hitting the ball up the middle" and "he learned to lay off outside pitches".

 

When he's good, he's one of the best in the game. When he's not, he's one of the worst. There is no inbetween with Randy. The only constant is that he is stunningly handsome.

[Stangstag]

Grichuk is turning back into Grichuk, as his 108 wRC+ sinks towards his 105 career #.

 

Just a good reminder for me how hot streaks and small sample sizes mean jack s*** most times. Love to see him get hot again.

 

His July and August stats are excellent, but he's been cold as f*** since September hit. He's just a streaky guy, but im happy he's still been able to keep his K numbers down through this cold streak.

 

Its weird, he goes through these long periods where he doesn't get any extra base hits, then he'll have a few weeks where he smashes homers every game. I don't think he's hit a homerun in like 3-4 weeks.

[glory]

He's reduced his K and whiff rates, but aside from that, he seems like the same player more or less from a results standpoint. Streaky, low OBP, good power. I was buying into the reduced K rate being more significant, and maybe with a bigger sample size it will prove to be, but still too early to tell.

[BigCecil]

Yeah, he's a hard player to cheer for. I mean, I don't think anyone really believed deep down that he was going to maintain his success, but we were willing to buy into dumb narratives like "letting the ball travel" and "focusing on hitting the ball up the middle" and "he learned to lay off outside pitches".

 

When he's good, he's one of the best in the game. When he's not, he's one of the worst. There is no inbetween with Randy. The only constant is that he is stunningly handsome.

 

Those narratives drive me bonkers, especially over a short window (also known as a hot streak). We got that once or twice from Tabby every season with Pillar and his offense was remarkably consistently weak overall.

 

I remember watching both Jose's and Edwin's transformation periods. I kept waiting for bottom to drop out but it didn't for years. Edwin (like Teoscar looks now) did learn to lay off breaking balls low and away better. He always had the pop. Jose fundamentally changed his stance/approach, but he always had great pitch selection. Its so rare that it all sticks in sustained way. JD is another example but that started in Oakland.

 

But most importantly neither were as handsome as "Randy".

[Laika]

Ken Giles back to the IL (elbow)

Anthony Kay optioned

Derek Fisher to IL (hit on knee by Matt Shoemaker during live BP)

 

Waguespack back

Hector Perez selected!!!

Teoscar activated but won't play tonight

[Laika]

We're ruining Giles. I kinda feel gross about it.

 

informed consent, man

 

this is a guy who punched himself in the face on the field. I'm sure he's into this kind of abuse.

[Olerud363]

Derek Fisher to IL (hit on knee by Matt Shoemaker during live BP)

 

What? That is weird. They didn't need to put a hit out on him. Should of just had him take a few hours of "outfield" practice one would of been bound to hit him in the face eventually.

[glory]

We're ruining Giles. I kinda feel gross about it.

 

He's a free agent after this season so he's likely trying to show he's healthy to get a contract. Unfortunately, he's likely damaged goods at this rate.

[Jimcanuck]

Dodged a bullet there, not extending Giles.

[Dokken]

We're ruining Giles. I kinda feel gross about it.

 

Question is what is actually wrong with his elbow and what would it take to get him back on track? Is this a partial UCL tear or what!?

[wilko]

Question is what is actually wrong with his elbow and what would it take to get him back on track? Is this a partial UCL tear or what!?

 

Probably needs TJS.

[Dokken]

Probably needs TJS.

 

That's what I mean - is he trying to pitch through a partial tear (like Tanaka did)? I suspect the Jays (and Giles) must know but are staying tight-lipped. Too bad for him, but it's the way it is going for so many pitchers these days.

[G-Snarls]

Please remove Tanner Roark from the starting rotation

 

Thank you,

 

Everyone

[KevinGregg]

Just leave roark out there for 120 pitches then phantom dl him til next spring

[Krylian]

This f***ing organization has the worst luck with its best trade assets. First Donaldson, now Giles.

 

I'm surprised Stroman didn't have a Twitter related spontaneous combustion before he was dealt.

[saskjayfan]

That's what I mean - is he trying to pitch through a partial tear (like Tanaka did)? I suspect the Jays (and Giles) must know but are staying tight-lipped. Too bad for him, but it's the way it is going for so many pitchers these days.

 

Tanaka had the same issue his first year in the MLB. He returned that year, but he took a lot more time off than Giles did. Maybe we rushed Giles. We heard each and every year about the risk of tommy John for Tanaka, but here we are 7 years later and he made it through his contract with no tommy john.

[Dokken]

Tanaka had the same issue his first year in the MLB. He returned that year, but he took a lot more time off than Giles did. Maybe we rushed Giles. We heard each and every year about the risk of tommy John for Tanaka, but here we are 7 years later and he made it through his contract with no tommy john.

 

Yes, I was sure Tanaka was going to go down for extended period (TJS) but was one of the few 'lucky' ones to avoid and still be effective for the most part throughout. Speaking of which, he is a FA after this season and 2021 is his age 32 season. Seems like a guy the Jays should be looking into if serious about being a contender, but I would be wary of anything more than 3 yr / $45 M (even that might be too much).

 

They say Giles has a forearm flexor strain, but I wonder to what extent this is actually caused by some issue in the elbow itself (like a partially torn UCL puts extra strain on other parts of the throwing arm?). It (flexor strain) seems to come up a lot.

 

Anyone here have recent info on Romano? I read it was a finger 'pulley ligament' strain (same thing that Sanchez ended up having surgery on in 2018), and that he is 'not yet throwing off the mound'. So he may be just soft tossing to keep the arm a bit limber while hoping that finger heals up. Probably out for the year.

[saskjayfan]

Yes, I was sure Tanaka was going to go down for extended period (TJS) but was one of the few 'lucky' ones to avoid and still be effective for the most part throughout. Speaking of which, he is a FA after this season and 2021 is his age 32 season. Seems like a guy the Jays should be looking into if serious about being a contender, but I would be wary of anything more than 3 yr / $45 M (even that might be too much).

 

They say Giles has a forearm flexor strain, but I wonder to what extent this is actually caused by some issue in the elbow itself (like a partially torn UCL puts extra strain on other parts of the throwing arm?). It (flexor strain) seems to come up a lot.

 

Anyone here have recent info on Romano? I read it was a finger 'pulley ligament' strain (same thing that Sanchez ended up having surgery on in 2018), and that he is 'not yet throwing off the mound'. So he may be just soft tossing to keep the arm a bit limber while hoping that finger heals up. Probably out for the year.

 

You read my mind..I was looking up pitchers for next year.

 

Bauer, Tanaka, Paxton, Stroman, Odorizzi, cheap kluber flyer? It's pretty slim pickings really. I would do my best to convince the mets they need to trade Degrom, but that's probably a dream.

[Laika]

Yes, I was sure Tanaka was going to go down for extended period (TJS) but was one of the few 'lucky' ones to avoid and still be effective for the most part throughout. Speaking of which, he is a FA after this season and 2021 is his age 32 season. Seems like a guy the Jays should be looking into if serious about being a contender, but I would be wary of anything more than 3 yr / $45 M (even that might be too much).

 

They say Giles has a forearm flexor strain, but I wonder to what extent this is actually caused by some issue in the elbow itself (like a partially torn UCL puts extra strain on other parts of the throwing arm?). It (flexor strain) seems to come up a lot.

Anyone here have recent info on Romano? I read it was a finger 'pulley ligament' strain (same thing that Sanchez ended up having surgery on in 2018), and that he is 'not yet throwing off the mound'. So he may be just soft tossing to keep the arm a bit limber while hoping that finger heals up. Probably out for the year.

 

Yeah, everything from the shoulder to the fingers is connected and when it comes to pitching injuries the problems are rarely isolated. A weak elbow structurally will put extra pressure on the forearm.

[saskjayfan]

Yeah, everything from the shoulder to the fingers is connected and when it comes to pitching injuries the problems are rarely isolated. A weak elbow structurally will put extra pressure on the forearm.

 

I don't envy any front office personnel making a decision on a pitcher. Pitcher's elbow's are a nightmare.