General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[saskjayfan]

My thought at the time of the Roark signing was..... insignificant stopgap. Just a guy to provide some innings until something better comes along.

 

Seems odd for a playoff team. However, you were pretty vocal that our ability to compete for the playoffs was 2 or 3 years from now.

[Brownie19]

"LIT UP" is a bit... well, revisionist history. He allowed two runs to score that inning AND got 2 outs. Those, BTW, are the only 2 runs he's given up as a Jay so far.

 

Sorry man - I'm talking about Roark...and it was 3 starts ago v. the Orioles (my bad). He came out for the 6th with a 3-1 lead and gave up a double, single and then a HR to make it 4-3 Orioles without getting an out.

 

Montoyo leaves Roark in to face the lineup a 3rd time - he gets f***ing lit up....Montoyo pulls him 2 starts later before he faces the lineup a 3rd time and he get royally pissed off. Roark isn't smart.

[Deadpool]

Sorry man - I'm talking about Roark...and it was 3 starts ago v. the Orioles (my bad). He came out for the 6th with a 3-1 lead and gave up a double, single and then a HR to make it 4-3 Orioles without getting an out.

 

Montoyo leaves Roark in to face the lineup a 3rd time - he gets f***ing lit up....Montoyo pulls him 2 starts later before he faces the lineup a 3rd time and he get royally pissed off. Roark isn't smart.

 

Oh, sorry, Roark sucks hard, no argument there. I'm shocked he only gave up 2 runs in his 4 innings last night. I fully expect to lose all of his starts.

[Brownie19]

Oh, sorry, Roark sucks hard, no argument there. I'm shocked he only gave up 2 runs in his 4 innings last night. I fully expect to lose all of his starts.

 

I'm not as enthusiastic about Walker as you are, but I'm no opposed to bringing him back on a 1 year deal. Seeing as he threw just 14 innings between 2018 and 2019, he's a massive risk and thus shouldn't be commanding years or top $.

[Deadpool]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Walker as you are, but I'm no opposed to bringing him back on a 1 year deal. Seeing as he threw just 14 innings between 2018 and 2019, he's a massive risk and thus shouldn't be commanding years or top $.

 

That's part of the reason I want to bring him back, I think he'll come cheaper than his talent would normally demand. Obviously it's a risk, but we took that risk with Ryu as well.

 

I'm hoping for a rotation that is Ryu, Pearson, Merryweather, Hatch, Walker. I mean, that's probably unrealistic and no real idea how Merryweather or Hatch would handle starting (though, both have been mostly starters in the minors and managed well enough). I just think Walker would be relatively cheap, and effective enough to give you 6-7 innings every 5 days and keep it close enough for the bats to win.

[Laika]

That's part of the reason I want to bring him back, I think he'll come cheaper than his talent would normally demand. Obviously it's a risk, but we took that risk with Ryu as well.

 

I'm hoping for a rotation that is Ryu, Pearson, Merryweather, Hatch, Walker. I mean, that's probably unrealistic and no real idea how Merryweather or Hatch would handle starting (though, both have been mostly starters in the minors and managed well enough). I just think Walker would be relatively cheap, and effective enough to give you 6-7 innings every 5 days and keep it close enough for the bats to win.

 

Is Walker talented though? I see an average FB and unimpressive secondaries. At best he seems to be a younger Tanner Roark, except you can't count on health.

 

If anything I think he gets overpaid in free agency.

 

I'd much rather pick up Anderson's option and/or bring back the old veteran Matt Shoemaker on a cheap deal.

 

Ryu

Pearson

Stripling

Anderson

Shoe

Roark

Merryweather

Kay

Hatch

Gooch

Thornton

Wag

Zoinks

Murphy

Murray

SWR

[Krylian]

Is Walker talented though? I see an average FB and unimpressive secondaries. At best he seems to be a younger Tanner Roark, except you can't count on health.

 

If anything I think he gets overpaid in free agency.

 

Ohhhh...I think he's a lot better than even a young Roark. Stuff is a much better. FB is very solid and maybe I'm way off, but I like what I've seen of his slider.

 

I agree that he probably will get overpaid in Free Agency, but mostly cause starting pitching is hard to find....at least good starting pitching is. I have no problem with Walker as my #4.

[Laika]

Ohhhh...I think he's a lot better than even a young Roark. Stuff is a much better. FB is very solid and maybe I'm way off, but I like what I've seen of his slider.

 

I agree that he probably will get overpaid in Free Agency, but mostly cause starting pitching is hard to find....at least good starting pitching is. I have no problem with Walker as my #4.

 

It really isn't. There's an extra 0.5-0.8 mph on the average FB but all things considered it's not a dissimilar package. I think this is adequately displayed by their K/BB rates and DIPS.

[Orgfiller]

Ohhhh...I think he's a lot better than even a young Roark. Stuff is a much better. FB is very solid and maybe I'm way off, but I like what I've seen of his slider.

 

I agree that he probably will get overpaid in Free Agency, but mostly cause starting pitching is hard to find....at least good starting pitching is. I have no problem with Walker as my #4.

 

Young Roark was no joke. Workhorse 3 WAR innings eaters aren't that common, and Walker has never showed either a higher talent level, or more importantly, the ability to stay healthy. Walker's fastball has always been his calling card, his secondaries have consistently rated poorly.

[Ziggyy108]

Roark sucks

[Ziggyy108]

As much as we've used our pen this year, it's kinda crazy Borucki has only pitched 11 innings.

[Stangstag]

Yeah, but forgetting specifically about Roark here for a second. I'd really like to bring Walker back in the offseason, but he's been pulled early in both of his starts now (once justifiably, once not IMO) and he was PISSED about being pulled the first time. He's going to think twice about re-signing with us if he's getting pulled early consistently. The high performance team may be 100% correct, but they can't account for something like that, and it SHOULD be a consideration (less so with Roark, 'cause I'd be fine if he just got so angry he retired, but players DO talk, and if he has a bad experience here and some free agents call him to ask what it was like pitching here...)

 

Which one was Walker pissed about? If you’re talking about his start in Boston, it was 100% the right time to pull him so I don’t care if he was mad.

[RustyTrombone]

So our lineup probably looks something like this for the rest of the year until Teo comes back.

Biggio 2B

Gurriel LF

Bichette SS

Grichuk CF

Guerrero DH

Shaw 1B

Fisher RF

Jansen C

Villar/Panik 3B

 

Not exactly awe inspiring. We will really need Guerrero and Shaw to step it up. Even Biggio has been pretty s***** last couple of weeks, need him to step it up too.

Man the lineup could have been something really special with everyone healthy.

 

Biggio

Gurriel

Bichette

Teo

Tellez

Grichuk

Vladdy

Shaw

Jansen

[wilko]

Which one was Walker pissed about? If you’re talking about his start in Boston, it was 100% the right time to pull him so I don’t care if he was mad.

 

I think he was pissed every start so far. Not sure if it's for getting pulled out early or fighting to throw strikes.

[Boxcar]

Who do you have in mind to come in as a #3-4 or so? He's better than the garbage we got this off season, and he's also much cheaper. I'm not interested in bringing him back on a Roarkesque deal, and if he wants that I'd definitely pass, but he's making $2M this year to be better than any of our starters not named Ryu this year.

 

Lots of options. First off, I want Merryweather tried in the rotation. Patrick Murphy and Joey Murray should probably get a chance. Pearson hopefully improves, and he's already close to Walker as is. Hatch should be in the rotation. Kay is probably just as good as Walker. Chase Anderson is cheap and approximately as good. Roark still exists. I'd bet Stripling is better. Hell, I'd even rather Gooch at the back end for his price point than Walker.

 

Should mention, in my assumptions I am assuming Walker gets 2-3 years @ around 12-13 per. The Jays have a lot of depth, and I don't really see a need for a somewhat redundant starter. We have tons of arms as good as or better than Walker. It's not like he's some kind of horse who will eat tons of innings, either.

 

Also, his number being 00 REALLY annoys me but I can not say why. It just does. I'm sure I'm not alone. Why not just one zero? Why not three zeroes? Did he not take math in elementary school? Any zeroes preceding a whole number are redundant. The only time you'd add zeroes is after the decimal to indicate accuracy (1.2000 would indicate a measurement is accurate to four decimal places). If you had zero runs, the board doesnt say "00"

 

He's virtue signaling to zero truthers and I don't like it.

[Boxcar]

So our lineup probably looks something like this for the rest of the year until Teo comes back.

Biggio 2B

Gurriel LF

Bichette SS

Grichuk CF

Guerrero DH

Shaw 1B

Fisher RF

Jansen C

Villar/Panik 3B

 

Not exactly awe inspiring. We will really need Guerrero and Shaw to step it up. Even Biggio has been pretty s***** last couple of weeks, need him to step it up too.

Man the lineup could have been something really special with everyone healthy.

 

Biggio

Gurriel

Bichette

Teo

Tellez

Grichuk

Vladdy

Shaw

Jansen

 

I'm not going to go on about it because I feel people know what I'm going to say, but really, what's the harm?

[Jimcanuck]

Seems odd for a playoff team. However, you were pretty vocal that our ability to compete for the playoffs was 2 or 3 years from now.

 

Got a link for that? The only timeline I have given is that the Jays will be contenders when Pearson and SWR are in MLB and contributing. Every team has a chance to make the playoffs in a given year (slim in some cases), and especially this year.

[Deadpool]

Lots of options. First off, I want Merryweather tried in the rotation. Patrick Murphy and Joey Murray should probably get a chance. Pearson hopefully improves, and he's already close to Walker as is. Hatch should be in the rotation. Kay is probably just as good as Walker. Chase Anderson is cheap and approximately as good. Roark still exists. I'd bet Stripling is better. Hell, I'd even rather Gooch at the back end for his price point than Walker.

 

Should mention, in my assumptions I am assuming Walker gets 2-3 years @ around 12-13 per. The Jays have a lot of depth, and I don't really see a need for a somewhat redundant starter. We have tons of arms as good as or better than Walker. It's not like he's some kind of horse who will eat tons of innings, either.

 

Also, his number being 00 REALLY annoys me but I can not say why. It just does. I'm sure I'm not alone. Why not just one zero? Why not three zeroes? Did he not take math in elementary school? Any zeroes preceding a whole number are redundant. The only time you'd add zeroes is after the decimal to indicate accuracy (1.2000 would indicate a measurement is accurate to four decimal places). If you had zero runs, the board doesnt say "00"

 

He's virtue signaling to zero truthers and I don't like it.

 

I'm much less interested in Walker at 3 $13 per than I would be at 2 $8 per.

 

And the more I think of it, the less I really care. I think Stripling probably fills the role Walker would in my mind.

 

But as I posted later in the thread, I'm with you on Merryweather + Hatch. I'm really not sure what to expect with Murphy and Murray. I kinda forgot about Thornton and Kay as starters as well. We are kinda flush with guys who could be passable to actually quite good, that's nice. I think Borucki is probably a guy I leave in the pen going forward.

 

Merryweather should be in the rotation to start next season 100%, I can't believe how good he's looked (even with some shaky fastball control at times).

[connorp]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Walker as you are, but I'm no opposed to bringing him back on a 1 year deal. Seeing as he threw just 14 innings between 2018 and 2019, he's a massive risk and thus shouldn't be commanding years or top $.

 

Yeah I highly doubt GMs are going to go from paying nothing to giving TW a decent payday because he threw 60 innings. Especially in post-Covid world. Maybe if he pitches well in a deep playoff run. He’ll prob get another 1 year deal at a higher rate or 2 at a reasonable price (no more than Anderson option).

 

Don’t know why Laila hates him so much. When he’s pitched he’s been clearly better than an Anderson (4 FIP guy vs 5 FIP trash). He’s better than the horse poop options

[Jimcanuck]

Real baseball people know pitchers returning from injury often get better over several months, and in some cases, much better. It would not surprise me in the least if TW goes back to being a 2-3 WAR pitcher in 2021.

[Boxcar]

Yeah I highly doubt GMs are going to go from paying nothing to giving TW a decent payday because he threw 60 innings. Especially in post-Covid world. Maybe if he pitches well in a deep playoff run. He’ll prob get another 1 year deal at a higher rate or 2 at a reasonable price (no more than Anderson option).

 

Don’t know why Laila hates him so much. When he’s pitched he’s been clearly better than an Anderson (4 FIP guy vs 5 FIP trash). He’s better than the horse poop options

 

It's the same s***, really. At the end of the day, Walker is just another back of the rotation guy who can't give you lots of innings. He's not really much better, if at all, than many of our in house options.

[Ex Player]

We are still missing a few pieces of the puzzle to become a WS contender I'm afraid.

 

But I'm convinced if Shapiro et al stay the course we'll be in the finals within a year or two

[Krylian]

I'm much less interested in Walker at 3 $13 per than I would be at 2 $8 per.

 

And the more I think of it, the less I really care. I think Stripling probably fills the role Walker would in my mind.

 

But as I posted later in the thread, I'm with you on Merryweather + Hatch. I'm really not sure what to expect with Murphy and Murray. I kinda forgot about Thornton and Kay as starters as well. We are kinda flush with guys who could be passable to actually quite good, that's nice. I think Borucki is probably a guy I leave in the pen going forward.

 

Merryweather should be in the rotation to start next season 100%, I can't believe how good he's looked (even with some shaky fastball control at times).

 

I would be beyond shocked if Merryweather had any future as a starter. Merryweather was forged in the same factory as Borucki...only an older, more brittle model. I think for longevity, you keep them both in the pen.

[Laika]

Real baseball people know pitchers returning from injury often get better over several months, and in some cases, much better. It would not surprise me in the least if TW goes back to being a 2-3 WAR pitcher in 2021.

 

Taijuan Walker had TJS over two years ago, Real Baseball Jim. He pitched post-surgery in 2019 and had a normal offseason.

 

His stuff is not going to get any better.

[Laika]

Don’t know why Laila hates him so much. When he’s pitched he’s been clearly better than an Anderson (4 FIP guy vs 5 FIP trash). He’s better than the horse poop options

 

I don't hate him, I'm just capable of separating the actual talent from the name and reputation. He's a back end starter talent at this point and you can't rely on him to eat innings. A horse poop option in disguise. Pass.

[baubau]

Sniff around Jake Lamb maybe.

 

This is an interesting option. He still hits the ball hard and his Hard% has more or less gone up year-by-year. Defensively he's probably more a 1B than 3B now. I haven't been following him as much but does anyone know why he fell off a cliff after 2017?

[Jimcanuck]

This is an interesting option. He still hits the ball hard and his Hard% has more or less gone up year-by-year. Defensively he's probably more a 1B than 3B now. I haven't been following him as much but does anyone know why he fell off a cliff after 2017?

 

Injuries, shoulder and other stuff.

[Ex Player]

Rays are losing to the Nats 5-3 in the 9th.

Daniel Hudson (memba him?) is their closer now.

He has 9 saves in 15 innings with an ERA of 5.74

[Orgfiller]

Real baseball people know pitchers returning from injury often get better over several months, and in some cases, much better. It would not surprise me in the least if TW goes back to being a 2-3 WAR pitcher in 2021.

 

He's been a 2-3 WAR starter exactly once lol.

[Ex Player]

Make that 10 saves for Hudson.

 

Rays lose. We gain 0.5 games on them