General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Brownie19]

What do people see in T.J Zeuch? Ive always liked him

 

Why?

 

I honestly don't know anyone who really likes Zeuch at this point. I mean he's big and has decent talent in his arm; however, unless he reinvents himself with a new arm angle or approach, it's highly unlikely he even becomes a useful ML piece at this point.

[BlueRocky]

Why?

 

I honestly don't know anyone who really likes Zeuch at this point. I mean he's big and has decent talent in his arm; however, unless he reinvents himself with a new arm angle or approach, it's highly unlikely he even becomes a useful ML piece at this point.

 

I wouldn’t go that far, but his stock is definitely down for awhile now. There were some flashes of potential like when he threw a no hitter down in Buffalo:

https://www.milb.com/gameday/bisons-vs-red-wings/2019/08/19/575922#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=575922

 

I’ve watched him for a bit these past few seasons, and his draft reports back in 2016 have been pretty accurate so the Jays knew what they were getting:

 

Pipeline

21. Toronto Blue Jays: RHP TJ Zeuch, Pittsburgh

Callis: Zeuch missed the start of the season with a groin injury, but once he got back on the mound he kept moving up Draft boards. His size (6-goot-7) and mid-90s fastball stand out the most about him, and his ability to refine his secondary pitches will determine whether he's a starter or reliever.

 

Baseball America

Drafted in the 1st round (21st overall) by the Toronto Blue Jays in 2016 (signed for $2,175,000)

Zeuch established himself as a prospect to follow with a strong freshman campaign, and then he develop into the ace of Pitt's staff as a sophomore. He missed the beginning of this spring with a groin injury, but got off to a strong start when he did take the mound. Zeuch's best pitch is his fastball, which sits at 92-94 and sometimes touches higher. Zeuch's extra large, 6-foot-7 frame allows him to generate solid extension towards home plate, making his pitches even more difficult for hitters to pick up out of his hand. His fastball also shows both sink and arm-side run, making it an effective ground ball-inducing pitch. His offspeed pitches, a slider and changeup, receive fringe-average grades from scouts, but he has solid command of his arsenal and repeats his delivery well. The development of his offspeed pitches will dictate his ultimate ceiling.

 

He’s basically been exactly that, a huge dude that throws a somewhat effective low-90s sinker and doesn’t have a true out-pitch. I’ve seen his slider been effective and his changeup gets mixed in on occasions, but they’re both not consistently a weapon for him. He pitches to contact and lives in the high-80s low-90s range by inducing ground balls. When he doesn’t walk people he can eat some innings for you.

 

He doesn’t scream starting pitcher and doesn’t have the wipeout stuff you want in a bullpen arm.

 

But young arms always have potential, and they don’t always find success their first time getting called up. There’s many examples of this. Who would’ve thought Liam Hendriks would be worth 3.9 fWAR and 25 saves in 2019?

 

If Zeuch figures it out and becomes a depth piece, than great! If not, other guys will step up.

[Pendleton]

I wouldn’t go that far, but his stock is definitely down for awhile now. There were some flashes of potential like when he threw a no hitter down in Buffalo:

https://www.milb.com/gameday/bisons-vs-red-wings/2019/08/19/575922#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=575922

 

I’ve watched him for a bit these past few seasons, and his draft reports back in 2016 have been pretty accurate so the Jays knew what they were getting:

 

Pipeline

 

 

Baseball America

 

 

He’s basically been exactly that, a huge dude that throws a somewhat effective low-90s sinker and doesn’t have a true out-pitch. I’ve seen his slider been effective and his changeup gets mixed in on occasions, but they’re both not consistently a weapon for him. He pitches to contact and lives in the high-80s low-90s range by inducing ground balls. When he doesn’t walk people he can eat some innings for you.

 

He doesn’t scream starting pitcher and doesn’t have the wipeout stuff you want in a bullpen arm.

 

But young arms always have potential, and they don’t always find success their first time getting called up. There’s many examples of this. Who would’ve thought Liam Hendriks would be worth 3.9 fWAR and 25 saves in 2019?

 

If Zeuch figures it out and becomes a depth piece, than great! If not, other guys will step up.

 

The lack of ability to miss bats is definitely a red flag. It's hard to picture him becoming more than a depth arm unless he manages to develop an out pitch.

[Krylian]

What do people see in T.J Zeuch? Ive always liked him

 

Not much. The heavy sinker use isn't going to do anything for him. He's a physical specimen so he's got that going for him. Just needs a better repertoire. The toolbox is there...he just doesn't have the right tools in it.

[BlueRocky]

The lack of ability to miss bats is definitely a red flag. It's hard to picture him becoming more than a depth arm unless he manages to develop an out pitch.

 

The red flag has been there since the draft. There’s a lot of college arms that get pegged “good fastball, projected future average secondary” molds. They don’t usually fly up into the first round though, but seen as safer picks, which makes no sense imo.

 

When drafting a pitcher, I’d like to see either one of several profiles:

 

- high premium velo you can dream on (e.g. Garrett Crochet, Nate Pearson)

- solid fastball command and at least one wipeout breaking ball plus track record (e.g. Emerson Hancock, Reid Detmers, Alek Manoah)

- just plain jaw-dropping stuff (e.g. Asa Lacy, Max Meyer, JT Ginn)

 

There’s gotta be one or two plus tools there with some projection left. Even if the guy is seen as a more risky pick, that upside is important. All pitchers are risky to some extent regardless of track record.

[Brownie19]

Unless they thought his 92 MPH sinker would translate into 96+ MPH out of the pen (ala Aaron Sanchez), then I have no idea why anyone would suggest the development of his secondary pitches would determine if he's a starter or a reliever. Relievers with sinkers in the 92-94 MPH range and nothing else are generally useless in all roles.

 

If I'm the Jays - I'm asking Zeuch to take the "Doc route". Send him back to A ball and ask him to change his repertoire and possibly his arm angle to re-invent himself. He'd be at Driveline or whatever advanced setup you need to try something different.

 

The current version of Zeuch is essentially useless unless he magically has pinpoint control or a new wipe out slider/changeup. He has little to no value as a reliever and can be easily replaced with the next DFA flyer we want to have a look at.

 

There's too much potential in his frame/arm to just let him keep doing what he's doing.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Brownie19

[Grant77]

A rookie who puts up a 4.05 FIP in his first taste of big league action is not essentially useless. The groundball profile is a nice fit for us and he could easily have a career like this:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jake-westbrook/412/stats?position=P

 

Shapiro and Atkins always mention him in our top 4 or 5 pitching prospects and speak very highly of him. They obviously see something.

[Brownie19]

A rookie who puts up a 4.05 FIP in his first taste of big league action is not essentially useless. The groundball profile is a nice fit for us and he could easily have a career like this:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/jake-westbrook/412/stats?position=P

 

Shapiro and Atkins always mention him in our top 4 or 5 pitching prospects and speak very highly of him. They obviously see something.

 

22 innings Grant....but I'm sure the 5.16 FIP in 78 innings in AAA was the anomaly.

[BlueRocky]

Unless they thought his 92 MPH sinker would translate into 96+ MPH out of the pen (ala Aaron Sanchez), then I have no idea why anyone would suggest the development of his secondary pitches would determine if he's a starter or a reliever. Relievers with sinkers in the 92-94 MPH range and nothing else are generally useless in all roles.

 

If I'm the Jays - I'm asking Zeuch to take the "Doc route". Send him back to A ball and ask him to change his repertoire and possibly his arm angle to re-invent himself. He'd be at Driveline or whatever advanced setup you need to try something different.

 

The current version of Zeuch is essentially useless unless he magically has pinpoint control or a new wipe out slider/changeup. He has little to no value as a reliever and can be easily replaced with the next DFA flyer we want to have a look at.

 

There's too much potential in his frame/arm to just let him keep doing what he's doing.

 

This could be the next development for Zeuch. If he doesn’t have the strikeout stuff, then his pitch to contact stuff needs to improve dramatically. I’ve heard about him working on his changeup, that’s a good start. Maybe add a cutter or something, rework his pitch repertoire and usage. Zeuch could really use an east-west type pitch as even his slider is very slurvy. There’s so many tools out there now for pitch design. He’s never had plus command either so it’s a bit of an uphill battle.

 

At least with Sean Reid-Foley you can say he throws 94-95 out of the pen and his slider looks good at times, there’s still a backup option.

 

Jon Harris is also nowhere to be seen, so the arms from a few years ago post-stroman/sanchez are looking grim.

 

Thankfully we have Pearson, Manoah, Woods-Richardson, Kay, Kloffenstein, Williams, Pardinho, Murray, Winckowski, and possibly an Emerson Hancock soon. If two or three of them become studs we’re in pretty good shape.

[Grant77]

22 innings Grant....but I'm sure the 5.16 FIP in 78 innings in AAA was the anomaly.

 

It's not an anomaly, but he was excellent in AA the previous year with a much larger sample.

 

I put a good deal of significance on MLB numbers, even in a small sample. That sinker is probably the best in our farm system and his slider showed some swing and miss. His problem is getting ahead in counts and locating the sinker down in the zone. That may take a couple of years for a taller pitcher, but I think that there's a reliable 2-3 win starter in his profile.

[Jimcanuck]

BA had a blurb on recent signings from non-traditional countries. BJ content:

 

NETHERLANDS

 

Sem Robberse, RHP, Blue Jays: Robberse is one of the more promising, deep-sleeper international pitching prospects signed over the past year. A $125,000 signing last year in June, Robberse pitched well after reporting to the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League, where he posted an ERA of 0.87 in 10.1 innings with a 9-to-0 strikeout-to-walk mark. His velocity has grown from reaching 88 mph before signing to 90 mph by the time he arrived in the United States and then 93 mph in the GCL. Adding 20 pounds to get to 6-foot-1, 180 pounds has helped, and there should be more velocity coming given his physical projection and loose, easy mechanics with minimal effort. Robberse's athleticism helps him repeat his delivery and throw strikes, mixing a four-seam fastball, a two-seamer and a breaking ball that's a slightly above-average pitch at its best.

 

Jiorgeny Casimiri, RHP, Blue Jays: The Blue Jays signed a second pitcher from the Netherlands in June, giving Casimiri $225,000. He's 6-foot-1, 160 pounds at 18 and throws strikes with a fastball that touches the low 90s and a slider that's a potentially average pitch. Casimiri also pitched in the GCL after signing, posting a 2.57 ERA in 14 innings with 13 strikeouts and two walks.

[Spanky99]

BA had a blurb on recent signings from non-traditional countries. BJ content:

 

NETHERLANDS

 

Sem Robberse, RHP, Blue Jays: Robberse is one of the more promising, deep-sleeper international pitching prospects signed over the past year. A $125,000 signing last year in June, Robberse pitched well after reporting to the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League, where he posted an ERA of 0.87 in 10.1 innings with a 9-to-0 strikeout-to-walk mark. His velocity has grown from reaching 88 mph before signing to 90 mph by the time he arrived in the United States and then 93 mph in the GCL. Adding 20 pounds to get to 6-foot-1, 180 pounds has helped, and there should be more velocity coming given his physical projection and loose, easy mechanics with minimal effort. Robberse's athleticism helps him repeat his delivery and throw strikes, mixing a four-seam fastball, a two-seamer and a breaking ball that's a slightly above-average pitch at its best.

 

Jiorgeny Casimiri, RHP, Blue Jays: The Blue Jays signed a second pitcher from the Netherlands in June, giving Casimiri $225,000. He's 6-foot-1, 160 pounds at 18 and throws strikes with a fastball that touches the low 90s and a slider that's a potentially average pitch. Casimiri also pitched in the GCL after signing, posting a 2.57 ERA in 14 innings with 13 strikeouts and two walks.

 

Bluerocky shared it in the IFA thread. I liked these signings back when they were reported, lottery tickets are fun to watch.

[BlueRocky]

Bluerocky shared it in the IFA thread. I liked these signings back when they were reported, lottery tickets are fun to watch.

 

Yeah I think our buddy P2F really likes Robberse and he’s also made MLB Pipeline’s Jays top 30. Can’t wait to see their stuff in full season ball. He went from 88 mph at signing to 93 mph in GCL, that type of velo uptick is not uncommon for 17-18 year olds, but still impressive. Maybe we’ll see 95-97 when he reaches double-A.

[rydermike]

Three years ago today

 

Coghlan jumps over Molina

[Beans]

Three years ago today

 

Coghlan jumps over Molina

 

Best highlight from that season, easily

 

I remember immediately going to YouTube to look up the scene in Major League 2 where Wille Mays Hayes jumps over Parkman

. My brother and I used to watch that movie all the time as kids (on VHS, no less) with our cousins and the kids from the neighbourhood, and then we'd go out and play ball all day. I remember I'd try to call my shot, like Hayes, and I remember my brother used to always shimmy in the batters box because he saw Parkman do it in the movie.

 

Might be my favourite baseball movie. (And Bob Barker is hilarious in it, too.)

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Beans

[Brownie19]

Yeah I watched Major League the other night with my kids and it seems all my memories are of Major League II. The kids liked it, but I think I need to watch the squeal with them to really drive home how classic the series is.

[Deadpool]

Best highlight from that season, easily

 

I remember immediately going to YouTube to look up the scene in Major League 2 where Wille Mays Hayes jumps over Parkman

. My brother and I used to watch that movie all the time as kids (on VHS, no less) with our cousins and the kids from the neighbourhood, and then we'd go out and play ball all day. I remember I'd try to call my shot, like Hayes, and I remember my brother used to always shimmy in the batters box because he saw Parkman do it in the movie.

 

Might be my favourite baseball movie. (And Bob Barker is hilarious in it, too.)

 

 

is not the same as

[Spanky99]

is not the same as

 

There was a special on Eucker last night, he's great, quick witted man.

[Beans]

lol, I got the names confused.

 

Bob Barker was hilarious in 'Happy Gilmore,' though!

[BlueRocky]

[BlueRocky]

[Brownie19]

f*** - that is awesome.

[BlueRocky]

lol @ Rowdy challenges Vlad to hit the scoreboard during his debut batting practice.

 

Anybody that missed his debut batting practice:

[Deadpool]

 

We should trade Nate Pearson for that guy ASAP. Maybe throw in Jansen to sweeten the pot...

[Carlos Danger]

We should trade Nate Pearson for that guy ASAP. Maybe throw in Jansen to sweeten the pot...

 

God that trade makes me mad... The only one I really criticized of AA. I thought he pulled off some great ones and some others I could see why he did it..

[BlueRocky]

Blue Jays Central @ Home featuring Jamie, Joe, Buck, and Dan.

Link above

[Boxcar]

God that trade makes me mad... The only one I really criticized of AA. I thought he pulled off some great ones and some others I could see why he did it..

 

Napoli for Frank Francisco

[Carlos Danger]

Napoli for Frank Francisco

 

True, but he got Napoli by dumping Vernon Wells which was a magic act... So, I give him more leeway on that one..

[Carlos Danger]

I am not happy with Grichuck as our starting CF for a number of reasons.

 

Watch the 40 second mark or so of the video, "Moreland's clutch game". Same game had Brito and Grichuk in the OF... Barf...

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/red-sox-2020-season-opening-day-roster-projection

[Spanky99]

I am not happy with Grichuck as our starting CF for a number of reasons.

 

Watch the 40 second mark or so of the video, "Moreland's clutch game". Same game had Brito and Grichuk in the OF... Barf...

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/red-sox-2020-season-opening-day-roster-projection

 

 

Never watched it, but Grichuk is for a # of reasons.