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Posted (edited)
I bet Harper is both relieved and pissed.. Pissed Trout wont be coming to Philly, relieved he won't be getting any tampering warnings or fines the next 12 years ;) Edited by Carlos Danger
Posted
I see people freaking out on social media that it isn't warranted? *smh* Might be the best player of all time, and it's not like his AAV is astronomical. f***ing Grienke's making 34.4M for christ sakes. Just think what these owners make off guys like Trout.
Posted
I see people freaking out on social media that it isn't warranted? *smh* Might be the best player of all time, and it's not like his AAV is astronomical. f***ing Grienke's making 34.4M for christ sakes. Just think what these owners make off guys like Trout.

 

So many "Harper is probably pissed" comments too. f***ing why? He isn't half the player trout is and is making 3/4 the money

Posted
So many "Harper is probably pissed" comments too. f***ing why? He isn't half the player trout is and is making 3/4 the money

 

If anything Harper should be glad, I'm sure he is, lol.

Posted

This contract is an absolute f***ing steal for the Angels and is a windfall of something on the order of $300-400M in surplus value, even if you use a conservative $10M per WAR (with no inflation at all over time) and project Trout to decline by 1 WAR per year starting at age 32:

 

[TABLE=width: 744]

[TR]

[TD]Year[/TD]

[TD]Age[/TD]

[TD]pWAR[/TD]

[TD]Value[/TD]

[TD]Salary[/TD]

[TD]Surplus Val[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2019[/TD]

[TD]27[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2020[/TD]

[TD]28[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2021[/TD]

[TD]29[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2022[/TD]

[TD]30[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2023[/TD]

[TD]31[/TD]

[TD]8.5[/TD]

[TD]$85,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$49,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2024[/TD]

[TD]32[/TD]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD]$80,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$44,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2025[/TD]

[TD]33[/TD]

[TD]7[/TD]

[TD]$70,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$34,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2026[/TD]

[TD]34[/TD]

[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]$60,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$24,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2027[/TD]

[TD]35[/TD]

[TD]5[/TD]

[TD]$50,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$14,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2028[/TD]

[TD]36[/TD]

[TD]4[/TD]

[TD]$40,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$4,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2029[/TD]

[TD]37[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]$30,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]-$5,833,333.33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2030[/TD]

[TD]38[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]$20,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]-$15,833,333.33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]79.5[/TD]

[TD]$795,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$430,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$365,000,000.00[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Posted
and it's not like his AAV is astronomical.

 

Well, it kind of is. Owner's stupidity in one or two other contracts don't change this being an astronomical AAV at very long term. Will the Angels get a good return on investment (assuming he stays healthy)? Probably, the bat should still provide the value alone even as his speed and defense decline.

 

The best part about this deal is people being able to tell Tony Clark, and his complaints about the players not being paid, to go suck it. 3 of the top 4 contracts in MLB history have been signed this offseason (and I think 3 of the top 5 in all sports).

Posted
This contract is an absolute f***ing steal for the Angels and is a windfall of something on the order of $300-400M in surplus value, even if you use a conservative $10M per WAR (with no inflation at all over time) and project Trout to decline by 1 WAR per year starting at age 32:

 

[TABLE=width: 744]

[TR]

[TD]Year[/TD]

[TD]Age[/TD]

[TD]pWAR[/TD]

[TD]Value[/TD]

[TD]Salary[/TD]

[TD]Surplus Val[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2019[/TD]

[TD]27[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2020[/TD]

[TD]28[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2021[/TD]

[TD]29[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2022[/TD]

[TD]30[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]$90,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$54,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2023[/TD]

[TD]31[/TD]

[TD]8.5[/TD]

[TD]$85,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$49,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2024[/TD]

[TD]32[/TD]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD]$80,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$44,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2025[/TD]

[TD]33[/TD]

[TD]7[/TD]

[TD]$70,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$34,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2026[/TD]

[TD]34[/TD]

[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]$60,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$24,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2027[/TD]

[TD]35[/TD]

[TD]5[/TD]

[TD]$50,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$14,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2028[/TD]

[TD]36[/TD]

[TD]4[/TD]

[TD]$40,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]$4,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2029[/TD]

[TD]37[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]$30,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]-$5,833,333.33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2030[/TD]

[TD]38[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]$20,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD]-$15,833,333.33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]79.5[/TD]

[TD]$795,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$430,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD]$365,000,000.00[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Let’s just hope that he declines as projected above and not like Pujols.

Posted
Let’s just hope that he declines as projected above and not like Pujols.

 

Pujols was never as good as Trout so it was always going to be more of a cliff, plus its always been widely speculated that his age is falsified. To be honest I think the decline I projected above for Trout is overly conservative and harsh, if anything.

Posted
Pujols was never as good as Trout so it was always going to be more of a cliff, plus its always been widely speculated that his age is falsified. To be honest I think the decline I projected above for Trout is overly conservative and harsh, if anything.

 

I'd probably be more inclined to project a 10% / year decline starting after his age 28 season rather than a fixed WAR amount. I also suspect the value per WAR isn't 10M, but probably closer to 8M for position players (maybe this offseason bumps it up a bit with the 3 large deals, but a lot of players have also been agreeing to contracts much lower than expected too). I think it spiked in the past with a bunch of the new TV deals.

Community Moderator
Posted
Pujols was never as good as Trout so it was always going to be more of a cliff, plus its always been widely speculated that his age is falsified. To be honest I think the decline I projected above for Trout is overly conservative and harsh, if anything.

 

mmmm nah

 

you should probably assume he will start declining at 29. it doesn't have to be 1 full win a year for the first couple but I think by age 37/38 you should basically be "projecting" him for 0 WAR

Posted
mmmm nah

 

you should probably assume he will start declining at 29. it doesn't have to be 1 full win a year for the first couple but I think by age 37/38 you should basically be "projecting" him for 0 WAR

 

No, you’re wrong. His bat alone will realistically be worth 4 WAR at age 38. Stupid.

Community Moderator
Posted

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

nah.

Posted

Here's NJH's model using a very stupid $8M per WAR forever and severe decline. Still a good contract.

 

[TABLE=width: 681]

[TR]

[TD]Year[/TD]

[TD]Age[/TD]

[TD]pWAR[/TD]

[TD]Value[/TD]

[TD]Salary[/TD]

[TD]Surplus Val[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2019[/TD]

[TD=align: right]27[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$72,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$36,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2020[/TD]

[TD=align: right]28[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8.5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$68,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$32,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2021[/TD]

[TD=align: right]29[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$64,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$28,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2022[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7.5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$60,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$24,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2023[/TD]

[TD=align: right]31[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$56,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$20,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2024[/TD]

[TD=align: right]32[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$48,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$12,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2025[/TD]

[TD=align: right]33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$40,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$4,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2026[/TD]

[TD=align: right]34[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$32,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($3,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2027[/TD]

[TD=align: right]35[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$24,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($11,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2028[/TD]

[TD=align: right]36[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$16,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($19,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2029[/TD]

[TD=align: right]37[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$8,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($27,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2030[/TD]

[TD=align: right]38[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$0.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($35,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]61[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$488,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$430,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$58,000,000.04[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Posted
Here's NJH's model using a very stupid $8M per WAR forever and severe decline. Still a good contract.

 

[TABLE=width: 681]

[TR]

[TD]Year[/TD]

[TD]Age[/TD]

[TD]pWAR[/TD]

[TD]Value[/TD]

[TD]Salary[/TD]

[TD]Surplus Val[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2019[/TD]

[TD=align: right]27[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$72,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$36,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2020[/TD]

[TD=align: right]28[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8.5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$68,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$32,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2021[/TD]

[TD=align: right]29[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$64,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$28,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2022[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7.5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$60,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$24,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2023[/TD]

[TD=align: right]31[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$56,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$20,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2024[/TD]

[TD=align: right]32[/TD]

[TD=align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$48,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$12,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2025[/TD]

[TD=align: right]33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$40,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$4,166,666.67[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2026[/TD]

[TD=align: right]34[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$32,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($3,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2027[/TD]

[TD=align: right]35[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$24,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($11,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2028[/TD]

[TD=align: right]36[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$16,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($19,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2029[/TD]

[TD=align: right]37[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$8,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($27,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: right]2030[/TD]

[TD=align: right]38[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$0.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$35,833,333.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]($35,833,333.33)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]61[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$488,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$430,000,000.00[/TD]

[TD=align: right]$58,000,000.04[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

We need to consider that Trout was already under contract for the next two years for 33.2MM, which is 73.6MM in surplus value.

 

The extension really only gives them rights to 2021+, and in this model since the whole deal is 58MM in surplus value they actually lost value over just keeping Trout for 2 years then letting him leave

Posted
We need to consider that Trout was already under contract for the next two years for 33.2MM, which is 73.6MM in surplus value.

 

The extension really only gives them rights to 2021+, and in this model since the whole deal is 58MM in surplus value they actually lost value over just keeping Trout for 2 years then letting him leave

 

Does not take into account the value a Trout brings you in the increase of value of your franchise, plus when he gets into the HOF, and so many other intangibles, increase in TV contract etc..

Posted
Does not take into account the value a Trout brings you in the increase of value of your franchise, plus when he gets into the HOF, and so many other intangibles, increase in TV contract etc..

 

Increase in franchise value only really matters if you plan on selling, and the current TV contract is already locked in for the entire length of Trout's new contract. It will certainly help in some other areas though.

Posted
I see people freaking out on social media that it isn't warranted? *smh* Might be the best player of all time, and it's not like his AAV is astronomical. f***ing Grienke's making 34.4M for christ sakes. Just think what these owners make off guys like Trout.

 

Your first mistake is even bothering with Social media comments.

Posted

A-Rod was never quite as consistent but had 62 fWAR through age 27 (64.9 for Trout). But had an additional 2 seasons (1000 PAs). He produced 51.8 fWAR after his age 27 year (including three 9 win seasons between age 28 and 32). Ken Griffey Jr. only produced about 20 fWAR after his age 27 season but so much of his value came from defense and base-running prior to that. Four players have produced 100 fWAR from age 28 to the end of their career. Bonds and Mays the only two since WWII.

 

Devo, Kenny Lofton, Lance Johnson, Mike Cameron are really quick examples of guys that provided 10+ fWAR from base-running and CF defense alone from age 28 to retirement. In the end I will safely declare that Trout may or may not produce positive value from that contract.

Posted

Gotta love Dinger's charts spouting value out of the wazoo every time a contract like this comes up for a star player. MLBPA needs to hire this man as part of their public relations team.

 

The risk of signing any one player to a contract like this is immense, that's why there is always a huge discount compared to $/WAR. Trout could turn into a pumpkin tomorrow and the Angels doomed themselves to a decade of 75 win seasons. This is unlikely, but not impossible. But that's why this is not a steal of a contract but a fair, risk-adjusted contract.

Posted
Gotta love Dinger's charts spouting value out of the wazoo every time a contract like this comes up for a star player. MLBPA needs to hire this man as part of their public relations team.

 

The risk of signing any one player to a contract like this is immense, that's why there is always a huge discount compared to $/WAR. Trout could turn into a pumpkin tomorrow and the Angels doomed themselves to a decade of 75 win seasons. This is unlikely, but not impossible. But that's why this is not a steal of a contract but a fair, risk-adjusted contract.

 

The latter's fair, but if you think he's going to fall under the Pumpkin label, you're a moron.

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