Around Baseball 2019

[Spanky__99]

That's something he's never been able to do and his defense makes him almost replacement level. I'm happy to roll with our internal options at that price.

 

I was speaking more in terms for the Marlins, I'm not quite sure the Jays are going to add in the OF. Also, in saying that, I'd have loved a Core-Dick sign. Hardly replacement level.

[TheHurl]

Marlins are a team full of 28 to 32 year olds who are pretty much completely unproven commodities. What is a best case scenario for them in the next four or so years? Most of them click and build some trade value and you start all over again. They have Sanchez and Harrison burning options in the minors. They have Berti, Sierra and Cooper moved to the bench...for what? Corey Dickerson, Matt Kemp (potentially) and Jesus Aguilar!

 

Just a terribly built team.

[Jimcanuck]

Damn, that's a great pickup, "IF" he stays healthy.

 

Brinson reign comes to an end.

[TheHurl]

Brinson reign comes to an end.

 

Brinson, Sierra and Berti are still their CF options (Villar as well I suppose). It's the Harold Ramirez era which has come to an end.

[Jimcanuck]

Brinson, Sierra and Berti are still their CF options (Villar as well I suppose). It's the Harold Ramirez era which has come to an end.

 

K, but can Brinson even be fixed?

[TheHurl]

K, but can Brinson even be fixed?

 

At least if he shows that he is a major league player (I don't think he is) he is around for 4 more years and still under 30 for all of those. I think you have to try and at least get something out of him, Diaz, Harrison or Yamamoto. Just because you gave up a Franchise player for them.

[Laika]

Marlins are a team full of 28 to 32 year olds who are pretty much completely unproven commodities. What is a best case scenario for them in the next four or so years? Most of them click and build some trade value and you start all over again. They have Sanchez and Harrison burning options in the minors. They have Berti, Sierra and Cooper moved to the bench...for what? Corey Dickerson, Matt Kemp (potentially) and Jesus Aguilar!

 

Just a terribly built team.

 

The moves this offseason are just a response to their situation, nothing wrong with the moves though. Dickerson is a good deal in a nutshell. Matt Kemp won't play. Nothing wrong with making Garret Cooper fight for playing time. None of these acquisitions are really blocking anyone - there will be plenty of playing time in Miami.

[Jimcanuck]

Domingo Santana unsigned and there is this:

 

• Domingo Santana on the 10-day injured for right elbow inflammation (started missing time on July 23)

2019 pre-injury OPS: .814 OPS

2019 post-injury OPS: .484

2020 OPS projection: .783

 

The elbow injury straight up destroyed him. He just couldn’t hit after it with a 46% K% and .119 ISO. No power or contact skills.

[Laika]

Domingo Santana unsigned and there is this:

 

• Domingo Santana on the 10-day injured for right elbow inflammation (started missing time on July 23)

2019 pre-injury OPS: .814 OPS

2019 post-injury OPS: .484

2020 OPS projection: .783

 

The elbow injury straight up destroyed him. He just couldn’t hit after it with a 46% K% and .119 ISO. No power or contact skills.

 

What’s his role and who does he bump?

 

-12 outfielder in his career. Sucked in 2018 too. Outside of his one strong season he has like 1 total WAR in parts of four years.

 

I think he’s just one of those guys that only seems exciting ostensibly and it’s due to previous fantasy baseball value and perceived upside

[max silver]

Marlins are a team full of 28 to 32 year olds who are pretty much completely unproven commodities. What is a best case scenario for them in the next four or so years? Most of them click and build some trade value and you start all over again. They have Sanchez and Harrison burning options in the minors. They have Berti, Sierra and Cooper moved to the bench...for what? Corey Dickerson, Matt Kemp (potentially) and Jesus Aguilar!

 

Just a terribly built team.

 

It's sad how little they ended up with considering the type of position player core they had before the tear down commenced. They had Dee Gordon, Realmuto, Stanton, Ozuna and Yelich, pretty damn solid core of players to start a team with. There pitching was pretty f***ing awful though.

[Jimcanuck]

What’s his role and who does he bump?

 

-12 outfielder in his career. Sucked in 2018 too. Outside of his one strong season he has like 1 total WAR in parts of four years.

 

I think he’s just one of those guys that only seems exciting ostensibly and it’s due to previous fantasy baseball value and perceived upside

 

He's just 27 and had a wRC+ of 127 prior to the elbow injury. 19 HR pre-July 23 injury, just 2 after.

 

Probably would be cheap ~$2M. DH and see some OF time.

 

Has averaged a 112 wRC+ over his MLB and entering his prime.

 

A low risk, potentially high reward signing.

[max silver]

He's just 27 and had a wRC+ of 127 prior to the elbow injury. 19 HR pre-July 23 injury, just 2 after.

 

Probably would be cheap ~$2M. DH and see some OF time.

 

Has averaged a 112 wRC+ over his MLB and entering his prime.

 

A low risk, potentially high reward signing.

 

If we are talking Jays as a landing spot for Santana they already have a remarkably similar guy on the roster in Teoscar Hernandez. High k-rate, low walk rate, hits the ball hard, poor fielder, untapped offensive potential....Teoscar is a far better athlete at this point as Santana's sprint speed has been declining quite a bit over the years.

[Jimcanuck]

If we are talking Jays as a landing spot for Santana they already have a remarkably similar guy on the roster in Teoscar Hernandez. High k-rate, low walk rate, hits the ball hard, poor fielder, untapped offensive potential....Teoscar is a far better athlete at this point as Santana's sprint speed has been declining quite a bit over the years.

 

With Wilkerson off the board, if the Jays miss out on both Ozuna and Castellanos, nothing wrong with having both Hernandez and Santana on the team, with Santana getting the bulk of DH work. Primary playing time loser would be Tellez.

[max silver]

With Wilkerson off the board, if the Jays miss out on both Ozuna and Castellanos, nothing wrong with having both Hernandez and Santana on the team, with Santana getting the bulk of DH work. Primary playing time loser would be Tellez.

 

Yeah good point no big loss whatsoever if Rowdy is odd man out. Santana looks to offer next to nothing in the outfield based on his metrics, so hopefully his outfield work would be minimal.

[Bobthe4th]

Marlins are a team full of 28 to 32 year olds who are pretty much completely unproven commodities. What is a best case scenario for them in the next four or so years? Most of them click and build some trade value and you start all over again. They have Sanchez and Harrison burning options in the minors. They have Berti, Sierra and Cooper moved to the bench...for what? Corey Dickerson, Matt Kemp (potentially) and Jesus Aguilar!

 

Just a terribly built team.

 

TBF Miami are only just about to enter year 3 of a full tear down and rebuild. The major league team isn't very relevant compared to their farm - which has been built up from one of the worst to one of the best.

[Spanky__99]

TBF Miami are only just about to enter year 3 of a full tear down and rebuild. The major league team isn't very relevant compared to their farm - which has been built up from one of the worst to one of the best.

 

Wait, Wat? That farm isn't anywhere near the best?

[Orgfiller]

TBF Miami are only just about to enter year 3 of a full tear down and rebuild. The major league team isn't very relevant compared to their farm - which has been built up from one of the worst to one of the best.

 

One of the best? Maybe by upside but they also have by far the most risk and variability among farm systems. I'm not sure there's any one of their guys who you can say is likely to be a surefire (or as close as one can say for a prospect) very good player aside maybe from Bleday who's the safest of them all.

[Grant77]

With Wilkerson off the board, if the Jays miss out on both Ozuna and Castellanos, nothing wrong with having both Hernandez and Santana on the team, with Santana getting the bulk of DH work. Primary playing time loser would be Tellez.

 

The FO went hard after Fisher and I think that they intend to give him some significant playing time.

[Bobthe4th]

One of the best? Maybe by upside but they also have by far the most risk and variability among farm systems. I'm not sure there's any one of their guys who you can say is likely to be a surefire (or as close as one can say for a prospect) very good player aside maybe from Bleday who's the safest of them all.

 

Yes that’s right one of the best - a top ten system with numerous top 100 prospects. Unquestionably vastly improved from the empty farm they had before they started the full tear down (which has at least 2 years left of adding to the farm being prioritised over winning at the MLB level). I.e. their plan is fully on track.

 

As you say, prospects are unreliable so we won’t know if the full rebuild strategy was the correct one for a few years yet. Though the current MLB 26 man has negligible impact on that.

[Spanky__99]

Yes that’s right one of the best - a top ten system with numerous top 100 prospects. Unquestionably vastly improved from the empty farm they had before they started the full tear down (which has at least 2 years left of adding to the farm being prioritised over winning at the MLB level). I.e. their plan is fully on track.

 

As you say, prospects are unreliable so we won’t know if the full rebuild strategy was the correct one for a few years yet. Though the current MLB 26 man has negligible impact on that.

 

According to who? You just said best? There spects suxxxx concerning they tore it down.

[TheHurl]

Only Bob could see what the Marlins have done since 2012 as prioritizing their big league club

[Bobthe4th]

Only Bob could see what the Marlins have done since 2012 as prioritizing their big league club

 

Lol I literally said the opposite!

[TheHurl]

Lol I literally said the opposite!

 

when did the "rebuild" start?

[Ryu In My House]

Looking to the future, like 12 months from now, it is conceivable that the FO may take a run at FA players like Betts and Paxton. I wonder what Betts would cost.

[Grant77]

Looking to the future, like 12 months from now, it is conceivable that the FO may take a run at FA players like Betts and Paxton. I wonder what Betts would cost.

 

I'd be surprised if the original ask from Betts' agent doesn't approach Mike Trout's 12/430 extension. He won't get that, but over 300 million is within the realm of possibility.

[Ryu In My House]

I'd be surprised if the original ask from Betts' agent doesn't approach Mike Trout's 12/430 extension. He won't get that, but over 300 million is within the realm of possibility.

 

Depending on how this year goes, it could be plausible. Strike a death blow to Boston, *and* bring in one of the best players in the game. I guess we will see. I'd still be surprised if the Red Sox don't extend him somehow. The Jays can help lessen that chance by not taking on Price's salary. I want nothing to do with Price. Let them stew in their awful contracts I say.

[Grant77]

Depending on how this year goes, it could be plausible. Strike a death blow to Boston, *and* bring in one of the best players in the game. I guess we will see. I'd still be surprised if the Red Sox don't extend him somehow. The Jays can help lessen that chance by not taking on Price's salary. I want nothing to do with Price. Let them stew in their awful contracts I say.

 

I truly enjoyed reading that they really wanted Travis Shaw, but couldn't afford to pay him 4 million. By now, I think it's clear that Betts doesn't want to play there or they haven't offered him a fair contract. Next offseason will be interesting.

[Ryu In My House]

I truly enjoyed reading that they really wanted Travis Shaw, but couldn't afford to pay him 4 million. By now, I think it's clear that Betts doesn't want to play there or they haven't offered him a fair contract. Next offseason will be interesting.

 

I didn't read that! That is awesome. Being handcuffed financially really suits them. We should not help them one bit.

[Bobthe4th]

when did the "rebuild" start?

 

Jeter joined in 2017 and decided to go full rebuild immediately, condemning the MLB team to years of losing and low attendances, with the aim of repairing the farm and competing. It's going to plan for him i.e. the MLB team is losing but it doesn't matter because the farm is much better and that's been the priority.

 

Absolutely they've been terribly managed before Jeter got there, but right now they are 100% on track with what he's trying to do. We won't know if it works out for a few years though, as mentioned above.

[TheHurl]

Jeter joined in 2017 and decided to go full rebuild immediately, condemning the MLB team to years of losing and low attendances, with the aim of repairing the farm and competing. It's going to plan for him i.e. the MLB team is losing but it doesn't matter because the farm is much better and that's been the priority.

 

Absolutely they've been terribly managed before Jeter got there, but right now they are 100% on track with what he's trying to do. We won't know if it works out for a few years though, as mentioned above.

 

We will agree to disagree. While I'll agree that years of some of the worst drafting in baseball did nothing to turn a decade of sub .500 ball into a good farm. They traded Stanton, Ozuna, Yelich and Realmuto and did not receive one high impact top 10 prospect (Sixto Sanchez and Brinson probably being the closest). They chose instead to take players like Castro, Alfaro. They traded their 2017 International money. The only move that they did which is really that different from what they did in the past was sign the Mesa's (which is unfortunately looking bad as well). You could commend them for selling high on Gallen for Chisholm or you could say that you had a low ceiling pitcher take a leap and out pitch everyone in the PCL and you dealt him for Jazz Chisholm.

 

My original comment was that they should try and harvest the cheap 28 - 32 year olds and turn them into Nick Anderson type deals.