General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Ex Player]

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/blue-jays-rookie-guerrero-looking-forward-to-productive-off-season

[Dick_Pole]

 

It would be funny watching him struggle to curl 20 pounds on a barbell for the first few weeks until his muscles acclimate to this new found "exercise" thing.

[Todd Van Anus]

I am not sure about the racism thing. But I am sure I really want to date Polish women now!

 

Or am I the only person seeing huge ad banners for Polish women?

 

Such a weird ad.

What's up with Polish women? Why are they so sexy?

[BTS]

After reading about Vlad literally having never stepped foot in a gym before, I'm down to zero hope that he ever improves his fitness. He's a preternaturally gifted hitter, but the level of laziness required for a professional athlete to have literally never tried working out is off the charts. That's not a switch you just flip.

[Bobthe4th]

After reading about Vlad literally having never stepped foot in a gym before, I'm down to zero hope that he ever improves his fitness. He's a preternaturally gifted hitter, but the level of laziness required for a professional athlete to have literally never tried working out is off the charts. That's not a switch you just flip.

 

A more positive spin would be he didn’t say that he’s never been in a gym - he said he doesn’t do weight lifting and has never done a regulated work out programme in the offseason. He also has always dominated at every level in his short career. This is the first time he’s faced setbacks so has never felt the need to go the extra mile. He wants to stay at 3B and to do that and maximise his other talents, maybe he now realises he has to work even harder to achieve his goals.

 

He’s also not lazy compared to a ‘real’ person. The amount of batting and fielding practice he’s done in his life is insane. He just eats too much - something that will be a much harder habit to break than not working out in the offseason.

[Brownie19]

After reading about Vlad literally having never stepped foot in a gym before, I'm down to zero hope that he ever improves his fitness. He's a preternaturally gifted hitter, but the level of laziness required for a professional athlete to have literally never tried working out is off the charts. That's not a switch you just flip.

 

I see what your saying - but I think hearing he's never worked out is a lot better than hearing that he's been working out a ton over the past 3 years and these are the results.

[BTS]

I see what your saying - but I think hearing he's never worked out is a lot better than hearing that he's been working out a ton over the past 3 years and these are the results.

 

I was kinda hoping he'd been working out a ton and packing serious muscle under all the fat. At that point his only issue would be his diet. Now he has to start working out and fix his diet at the same time.

[glory]

The problem for Vlad as mentioned seems more eating related. Fixing his diet will be much harder than getting him to workout more. He's still young enough to change though. Put him around the right people, combined with his first real taste of struggling, and it could change him for the better.

 

In that sense, as much as I want him to move to 1B/DH, keeping him at third might force him to take his diet/exercise more seriously. We'll see. If he's still overweight in six months, then it's probably a lost cause.

[Bobthe4th]

The problem for Vlad as mentioned seems more eating related. Fixing his diet will be much harder than getting him to workout more. He's still young enough to change though. Put him around the right people, combined with his first real taste of struggling, and it could change him for the better.

 

In that sense, as much as I want him to move to 1B/DH, keeping him at third might force him to take his diet/exercise more seriously. We'll see. If he's still overweight in six months, then it's probably a lost cause.

 

This is key IMO. He seems to really want to stick at 3B and it’s clear (and he appears to have accepted) that he needs to lose weight to be able to do that.

[Laika]

bUt VlAd WaS mAjOr LeAgUe ReAdY iN sPrInG tRaInInG!!!!111!111

[Laika]

After reading about Vlad literally having never stepped foot in a gym before, I'm down to zero hope that he ever improves his fitness. He's a preternaturally gifted hitter, but the level of laziness required for a professional athlete to have literally never tried working out is off the charts. That's not a switch you just flip.

 

Failure can very quickly change people. He's never failed before. The crux of this will be whether or not he considers his rookie season to be disappointing in any real respect. It's not like .276/.345/.444 is a line that screams failure. He actually has 2.1 bWAR, which is surprising!

 

And I speak from experience. I am off-the-charts lazy and I was once considered a child prodigy in a number of things.

[jerb]

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Vlad Guerrero Jr. just addressed media to clarify some things about his conditioning

 

Says he has definitely lifted weights before, just not in the DR during the off-season (when he’d do other workouts such as flipping tires).

Vlad was ‘a little upset’ by this misunderstanding

[Krylian]

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Vlad Guerrero Jr. just addressed media to clarify some things about his conditioning

 

Says he has definitely lifted weights before, just not in the DR during the off-season (when he’d do other workouts such as flipping tires).

Vlad was ‘a little upset’ by this misunderstanding

 

He should be 'a little upset' with his own conditioning.

[TBJ12]

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Vlad Guerrero Jr. just addressed media to clarify some things about his conditioning

 

Says he has definitely lifted weights before, just not in the DR during the off-season (when he’d do other workouts such as flipping tires).

Vlad was ‘a little upset’ by this misunderstanding

 

I watched videos of his workouts in the DR last year. Just because he wasn't in a gym doesn't mean he wasn't working out. Pretty laughable to see guys writing off a 20 year old potential superstar based on a click bait article.

[Krylian]

I watched videos of his workouts in the DR last year. Just because he wasn't in a gym doesn't mean he wasn't working out. Pretty laughable to see guys writing off a 20 year old potential superstar based on a click bait article.

 

Who is writing him off?

[Slade]

I watched videos of his workouts in the DR last year. Just because he wasn't in a gym doesn't mean he wasn't working out. Pretty laughable to see guys writing off a 20 year old potential superstar based on a click bait article.

 

Who is writing him off?

 

Running and flipping tires is great but not going to be very effective if he goes home at just downs Mama's cooking. He needs a traditional work out targeting muscle groups that will actually help him improve at his position and he definitely going to need to improve his nutrition if he hopes to keep the weight off.

 

 

I think it's pretty crazy that a pro athlete with all the very best facilities and experts available to them can fail so hard at fitness. Honestly it's a failure just as much to the organization as it is to Vlad.

[TBJ12]

After reading about Vlad literally having never stepped foot in a gym before, I'm down to zero hope that he ever improves his fitness. He's a preternaturally gifted hitter, but the level of laziness required for a professional athlete to have literally never tried working out is off the charts. That's not a switch you just flip.

 

Who is writing him off?

 

Plenty of others here make comments regarding his weight, eating habits and conditoning. People seem to forget he just turned 20.

[Jimcanuck]

Plenty of others here make comments regarding his weight, eating habits and conditoning. People seem to forget he just turned 20.

 

I have yet to see anyone write him off.

[BTS]

Plenty of others here make comments regarding his weight, eating habits and conditoning. People seem to forget he just turned 20.

 

Calling him a preternatural hitter isn’t writing him off. He’s going to absolutely rake. I just think he’s always going to be a fatass.

[Krylian]

Plenty of others here make comments regarding his weight, eating habits and conditoning. People seem to forget he just turned 20.

 

He's fat and hasn't taken his conditioning nearly seriously enough. That's not writing off. That's stating the obvious.

[Brownie19]

Wait, Vlad has 2 kids? No wonder he has a dad bod already.

 

[Krylian]

Wait, Vlad has 2 kids? No wonder he has a dad bod already.

 

Are they with the same woman?

[Ex Player]

Buchholz doesnt throw hard at all, I got him clocked at only 22 on my gun

 

[Angrioter]

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Vlad Guerrero Jr. just addressed media to clarify some things about his conditioning

 

Says he has definitely lifted weights before, just not in the DR during the off-season (when he’d do other workouts such as flipping tires).

Vlad was ‘a little upset’ by this misunderstanding

 

Adam Lind 15 minutes

[Olerud363]

He's fat and hasn't taken his conditioning nearly seriously enough. That's not writing off. That's stating the obvious.

 

Some of his failure has nothing to do with fatness. Unless fatness leads to groundballs.

 

Today's game

 

grounder, low line drive (out at second because of bone headed running), grounder

 

If he is skinnier isn't it all the same?? Or will skinny lead to better launch angle?

[5ToolPhenom]

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Vlad Guerrero Jr. just addressed media to clarify some things about his conditioning

 

Says he has definitely lifted weights before, just not in the DR during the off-season (when he’d do other workouts such as flipping tires).

Vlad was ‘a little upset’ by this misunderstanding

 

ahhh so it was just Madani talking out of his ass. That's a relief to hear.

[Orgfiller]

Some of his failure has nothing to do with fatness. Unless fatness leads to groundballs.

 

Today's game

 

grounder, low line drive (out at second because of bone headed running), grounder

 

If he is skinnier isn't it all the same?? Or will skinny lead to better launch angle?

 

Olerud, Vlad has a 109 wRC+ as a 20 year old, groundballs or not. Yes his hitting profile currently isn't where it should be and he should fix that, but his biggest present problem and failure is that he's bleeding value on the bases and on defense. Kevin Newman of the Pirates has a 109 wRC+ in rougly equal playing time to Vladdy with exactly average defense and baserunning (0 runs provided from each) and he's at 2.1 WAR whereas Vlad is at 0.7, and the latter is 6 years younger and crushed the minor leagues.

 

No offense man, but shut the f*** up about his launch angle lol, I'm sure he's well aware that hitting this many groundballs is an issue and there's no reason to believe he won't adjust, given his prior hitting success. Vlad's hitting at his age is not currently a problem, everything else is.

[Olerud363]

Olerud, Vlad has a 109 wRC+ as a 20 year old, groundballs or not. Yes his hitting profile currently isn't where it should be and he should fix that, but his biggest present problem and failure is that he's bleeding value on the bases and on defense. Kevin Newman of the Pirates has a 109 wRC+ in rougly equal playing time to Vladdy with exactly average defense and baserunning (0 runs provided from each) and he's at 2.1 WAR whereas Vlad is at 0.7, and the latter is 6 years younger and crushed the minor leagues.

 

No offense man, but shut the f*** up about his launch angle lol, I'm sure he's well aware that hitting this many groundballs is an issue and there's no reason to believe he won't adjust, given his prior hitting success. Vlad's hitting at his age is not currently a problem, everything else is.

 

Why don't you shut the f*** up... you have no idea what you are talking about. Peter Alonso and Yordan Alvarez also have negative defense and baserunning, comparable to Vlad.

 

In fact, given enough games Yordan would be way worse than Vlad in both. The difference between Vlad and the other "bat only" rookies is not defense and baserunning.

 

Do you think this type of player majically become good on defense and baserunning and gets his 5 WAR that way??

 

The reason he missed expecations this year is ground ball rate. If it's fixed he'll be way better. If he magicly becomes average at defense and baserunning... well that would would be a bonus.

 

Check out the career of any of these types of players. Cabrera, Pujols, or a notch down Prince Fielder... they are all way negative on defense and baserunning. This type of player just can't carry a 110 OPS+ and be effective.

 

Either Vlad will fix his ground ball rate... or he won't. That will define his career.

[Olerud363]

Negative defense leaders... Vlad is 20th in negative defensive... many of those guys have more WAR than him. Some like Freeman, Cruz, Solar all have 3-4 WAR.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=20,a

 

Negative basefunning leaders... Include Hosmer (wow he's bad), Hosmer, Abreu, Josh Bell (worse than Vlad in both... but more games)... this is just the way it is for Players of Vlad's nature.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=18,a

[Laika]

You’re both right.

 

His main flaws are defence and running. These are his glaring talent holes. Hard to fix.

 

His main fixable flaw is the hit trajectory. It should be easy enough to fix. So easy that you can reasonably assume it will get better.

 

Olerud is right that the groundball rate needs to be addressed. It could be a lot of wasted effort trying to get him to be a decent defender, but some attention to lifting the ball more would have big dividends. Orgfiller is probably right that Vlad already knows he should be hitting more dingers, it’s just not something he’s overly worried about right now.

 

Hmmmm