General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Terminator]

Phelps was damn good as a reliever before the injury. Looked like his velocity was way down though today.

[Pendleton]

Alex Kirilloff or GTFO.

 

I would accept Graterol + Balazovic/Duran

[Ray]

Biggio is looking really good.

 

Statcast numbers:

 

15.4% Barrel%. It's about the same as Brandon Lowe's.

 

.369 xWOBA / .453 xWOBACON

 

92.5 mph avg EV (Ranked 16th in MLB min 30 batted ball events)

 

66th percentile sprint speed

 

48.7% Hard Hit rate (Ranked 33rd min 30 batted ball events)

[Ray]

Kyle Tucker alone would be so overly sufficient that Houston would probably stop returning Toronto's phone calls.

 

Derek Fisher is a toolsy player who they would definitely let go because of his demonstrated bust potential. Imagine if Billy McKinney had a black guy's name and some black guy tools but was actually still white and maybe not any better. They have at least a dozen intriguing pitching prospects to deal. I think several other teams would go harder for Stroman though (Houston's pitching depth is not bad and Stroman is not the Ace injection that a team like Houston will really be looking for).

 

Derek Fisher + another good piece might be fair in a vacuum, but I would be left disappointed regardless if that's who we end up netting for Stroman.

[Laika]

Derek Fisher + another good piece might be fair in a vacuum, but I would be left disappointed regardless if that's who we end up netting for Stroman.

 

Honestly depends on the second piece. Houston has some solid dudes on the farm.

[Terminator]

Derek Fisher is trash.

[Olerud363]

Derek Fisher + another good piece might be fair in a vacuum, but I would be left disappointed regardless if that's who we end up netting for Stroman.

 

Plate discipline is also phenomenal. I am guessing he is up there in out of zone swing rate.

[Terminator]

Atkins is on the hot seat and needs guys that can contribute soon so my guess is he rolls the dice on more post-hype sleepers who are "big league ready." Derek Fisher seems like a strong possibility but he screams Drury or McKinney to me.

[L54]

If Derek Fisher is the headliner of a Marcus Stroman trade this team will never sniff the playoffs under this management. Gross

[Laika]

Atkins is on the hot seat and needs guys that can contribute soon so my guess is he rolls the dice on more post-hype sleepers who are "big league ready." Derek Fisher seems like a strong possibility but he screams Drury or McKinney to me.

 

He might suck but he's more like Jake Marisnick (maybe without CF instincts) than Drury or McKinney. I've seen 60 and 70 scouting grades on the power and speed. Even if the swing and miss prevents him from being a starter there are bench skills there, unlike Drury and McKinney where the peripheral skills don't really exist so if they aren't hitting they aren't big leaguers.

 

He would have to be the third piece or secondary piece in a Stroman deal an all likelihood.

[glory]

Fisher would be a huge letdown but unfortunately I could see that. My guess is Atkins will try to get as much pitching as possible, so if we are talking Astros then probably Bukauskas/Abreu types.

 

Actually, I don't think Atkins has made a bad deal with the Astros (Liriano/Hernandez, Osuna/Giles-Paulino-Perez, and Diaz/Thornton), so dealing with the Astros doesn't scare me as much as if he were talking to Brian Cashman again.

[Ray]

I could see Corbin Martin, Derek Fisher + another pieces for Stroman.

 

Fisher actually has better minor league numbers than I thought. Career .858 OPS in the minors. He can take his walks and has good power.

[BlueRocky]

I would accept Graterol + Balazovic/Duran

 

Would you do Brusdar Graterol + Trevor Larnach + Jhoan Duran + Jordan Balazovic

 

for Giles + Stroman?

[Slade]

Atkins the kind of guy to trade for Brent Rooker, Stephen Gonsalves and Lamonte Wade then say he's really happy with the near ready talent they got. I kind of lost a lot of faith in them for evaluating major league talent, which is strange cause the strength of the new regime seems to be drafting.

 

 

If you trade Stroman and you don't get one of Kirilloff or Lewis it's a bad trade IMO, they have other good prospects but Stroman is good enough to get that kind of return.

[Jimcanuck]

Would you do Brusdar Graterol + Trevor Larnach + Jhoan Duran + Jordan Balazovic

 

for Giles + Stroman?

 

Holy crap. In a heartbeat.

[Pendleton]

Would you do Brusdar Graterol + Trevor Larnach + Jhoan Duran + Jordan Balazovic

 

for Giles + Stroman?

 

It's a great haul. I'm all for trying to pry Kirilloff or another top hitting prospect from elsewhere, but if teams balk at giving up the elite young bats, we at least need to raid the f*** out of a high end pitching cupboard.

[Terminator]

He might suck but he's more like Jake Marisnick (maybe without CF instincts) than Drury or McKinney. I've seen 60 and 70 scouting grades on the power and speed. Even if the swing and miss prevents him from being a starter there are bench skills there, unlike Drury and McKinney where the peripheral skills don't really exist so if they aren't hitting they aren't big leaguers.

 

He would have to be the third piece or secondary piece in a Stroman deal an all likelihood.

 

Fair points but it doesn't seem like he gets very high grades on his defense despite having good speed. He's almost 26 and his bat looks like s***. We got Teoscar (who at the time was more interesting IMO) for an old Liriano. Fisher seems like the type of guy that can be had for an ok reliever. He has very very little value IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

Fair points but it doesn't seem like he gets very high grades on his defense despite having good speed. He's almost 26 and his bat looks like s***. We got Teoscar (who at the time was more interesting IMO) for an old Liriano. Fisher seems like the type of guy that can be had for an ok reliever. He has very very little value IMO.

 

+1

 

Get guys with upside, not mediocre borderline replacement players

[Pendleton]

Smoak to the 10 day IL with that quad issue

[Ray]

The Sonny Gray trade from the A's to the Yankees might be a good comp for Stroman.

 

The A's got James Kaprielian (#87 prospect), Jorge Mateo (#85 prospect), and Dustin Fowler (unraked)

[glory]

Atkins the kind of guy to trade for Brent Rooker, Stephen Gonsalves and Lamonte Wade then say he's really happy with the near ready talent they got. I kind of lost a lot of faith in them for evaluating major league talent, which is strange cause the strength of the new regime seems to be drafting.

 

 

If you trade Stroman and you don't get one of Kirilloff or Lewis it's a bad trade IMO, they have other good prospects but Stroman is good enough to get that kind of return.

 

One thing with Atkins is he goes after players who other teams don't want to protect on their 40 man roster. Just last trade deadline we saw Paulino, Perez, Wall, Waguespack, Merryweather, McKinney, etc, who other teams gave up either to take off the existing 40 man or to not have to make a decision on that winter. Then this winter we saw it with Thornton who the Astros had to protect prior to the rule 5 or risk losing him.

 

Unfortunately that may be where we have to start as we try to guess the returns on certain players. One would hope that Stro and Giles would be able to net real prospects regardless of 40 man roster implications, but we have to set ourselves up for reality.

Edited June 18, 2019 by glory

[Laika]

Fair points but it doesn't seem like he gets very high grades on his defense despite having good speed. He's almost 26 and his bat looks like s***. We got Teoscar (who at the time was more interesting IMO) for an old Liriano. Fisher seems like the type of guy that can be had for an ok reliever. He has very very little value IMO.

 

+1

 

Get guys with upside, not mediocre borderline replacement players

 

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

[Terminator]

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

 

He sucks!

[Laika]

He sucks!

 

My fine friend as a complete and utter rebuttal let me copy and paste what I previously wrote into this website but fivefold

 

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

 

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

 

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

It's difficult to think of realistic trade scenarios. You have to really bend over backwards to consider things from the other team's perspective.

 

Derek Fisher was a top 100 prospect a couple of seasons ago for Houston, and an easy/consensus top 10 prospect for them for a couple of years. He hasn't really had that much playing time to fail in the majors because they are so deep. His value is objectively down but I doubt Houston thinks he has negligible value and I doubt they would internally characterize him as a replacement level player. He does not project to be replacement level, for one thing.

 

Fisher objectively does have upside.

 

When Houston acquired Liriano there is a chance their analytics department thought he would be a legitimate weapon out of the pen on their playoff run.

 

The hypothetical negotiation is something like - "we'll agree to Fisher as an adequate secondary piece if you give us our guy as the centrepiece"

 

TL;DR if Houston is in the trade market they are hoping to extract value from Derek Fisher so he is worth examining

 

FWIW Fisher has played at a 20/20 pace during his s***** MLB sample size and has been a positive baserunner and +10 defender. There is legit breakout potential with him.

[Terminator]

Lol nice

[King]

 

oh..

[Spanky99]

 

oh..

 

If true, that's a disservice to the org. *smh* Either that or his ask is astronomical.

[glory]

The sad thing is, overpaying Stroman on a 5 year deal is probably more reasonable than giving Grichuk 5/53.

 

Stro is going to be close to a 4 win player this season, and he's routinely above a 3 WAR any time he's been healthy. Why in the world they prioritized Grichuk at a non bargain price and not players like Stro and Giles is baffling to me.

 

They better be able to develop SPs like Cleveland did/does, otherwise this is just going to get a lot uglier before it gets better.

[Brownie19]

The sad thing is, overpaying Stroman on a 5 year deal is probably more reasonable than giving Grichuk 5/53.

 

Stro is going to be close to a 4 win player this season, and he's routinely above a 3 WAR any time he's been healthy. Why in the world they prioritized Grichuk at a non bargain price and not players like Stro and Giles is baffling to me.

 

They better be able to develop SPs like Cleveland did/does, otherwise this is just going to get a lot uglier before it gets better.

 

Can you message me when you have a new point or opinion to make? Thanks.

[Spanky99]

Can you message me when you have a new point or opinion to make? Thanks.

 

lol... it's true, the regurgitation has caught fire Gibby levels.