General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Ex Player]

why would Machado sign in SD?

For the money obviously, but Rogers arent known to splurge that amount of cash on FA's

[Terminator]

 

Justin Shafer suxxx

[Krylian]

There isn't a better fit on the FA market than Gerrit Cole. Something like 6/210 would be amazing.

 

Cole

Stroman

Thornton

Shoemaker

Borucki/Pearson/Waguespack/SRF/Paulino

 

Legit AF. Get it done Shatkins.

 

$35M AAV for Cole?

[Terminator]

There isn't a better fit on the FA market than Gerrit Cole. Something like 6/210 would be amazing.

 

Cole

Stroman

Thornton

Shoemaker

Borucki/Pearson/Waguespack/SRF/Paulino

 

Legit AF. Get it done Shatkins.

 

Would be awesome but Shatkins fears Free Agency. Have either of them in their entire lives ever been involved in a major signing? I doubt it.

[Ex Player]

 

Justin Shafer suxxx

You sure, his ML stats look really good: https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=shafer000jus

[Krylian]

Would be awesome but Shatkins fears Free Agency. Have either of them in their entire lives ever been involved in a major signing? I doubt it.

 

There will be no big FA signings in Toronto. The largest one EVER was what, Russell Martin? 5 yrs./ $82M? That's nice...but a far cry from the level of player we're talking about.

[Terminator]

You sure, his ML stats look really good: https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=shafer000jus

 

The only thing that looks good is his ability to avoid home runs which keeps his ERA low. His strikeout numbers look kind of bad and his walk rates aren't anything special. He simply never gives up homers and that's with a decent but not great GB rate. If he's doing something special to avoid homers then he might be able to stick but I'm more inclined to think it's a fluke and that the homers will happen in the big leagues.

[Ex Player]

There will be no big FA signings in Toronto

Not unless we get a different owner, which is highly unlikely since the Jays are a Rogers cash cow

[Krylian]

Not unless we get a different owner, which is highly unlikely since the Jays are a Rogers cash cow

 

Which is unfortunate cause Rogers has oodles of money. Shouldn't be an issue for them.

[Spanky99]

The only thing that looks good is his ability to avoid home runs which keeps his ERA low. His strikeout numbers look kind of bad and his walk rates aren't anything special. He simply never gives up homers and that's with a decent but not great GB rate. If he's doing something special to avoid homers then he might be able to stick but I'm more inclined to think it's a fluke and that the homers will happen in the big leagues.

 

It's a minor move, no big deal to fret over. I lean on he suxxxx as well, fyi.

[BTS]

$35M AAV for Cole?

 

Yeah, assuming Cole is healthy all year and this team can go to 160M or so I’d give Cole the Greinke deal and be pretty excited about it. He’ll be 29 and he’s a super-elite top-5 arm who has been very durable.

[keggy]

Toronto has had a top 10 payroll in all of MLB for the better part of a decade. Rogers is willing to pay for a winning team. The problem is that paying for elite talent through free agency is inefficient.

 

Even with free agent signings, the team will need Guerrero, Bichette, and at least one other player to perform at an all-star level for dirt cheap before we can even think about contending.

[Deadpool]

There will be no big FA signings in Toronto. The largest one EVER was what, Russell Martin? 5 yrs./ $82M? That's nice...but a far cry from the level of player we're talking about.

 

At the time, the BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett deals were HUGE.

[Stoneyen]

Mike Trout has more WAR (3.3) than the entire Jays team (3.1). But I guess that's not saying much considering I have more WAR (0.0) than the all of the Jays batters combined (-0.1).

 

Was gonna say its kinda crazy that Shatkins could have fielded an entire lineup of AAAA guys and done better, but then I realized that's basically what they did.

[The Iceman]

Maybe if he kepy Dwight Smith and Harold .413 BA Ramirez the team would be better.

 

Can't even evaluate his own players. Worst GM we have ever had...Smith has scored more runs and has more RBI than anyone on our team playing for the black hole Baltimore.

[Dick_Pole]

So much stupid going on ITT:

 

"Toronto will never sign big free agents".

 

No just Hall of Famers like Roger Clemens*, Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield and Frank Thomas along with star players like Dave Stewart, Jack Morris, Jose Canseco, AJ Burnett and the aforementioned Russell Martin.

 

(*assume a normal world where he makes it)

 

"Rogers is too cheap"

 

The payroll has been pretty high since the Marlins trade and several of those signings I just mentioned has been under Rogers. They made substantial financial commitments to Bautista and Encarnacion once they broke out. We live in a FA world where star pitchers sit on the sidelines and the two best players remained unsigned until spring training. ALL teams are frugal with FA bucks now. The way to win is to develop your own players and make good trades with using the FA market to supplement the roster.

[Spanky99]

So much stupid going on ITT:

 

"Toronto will never sign big free agents".

 

No just Hall of Famers like Roger Clemens*, Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield and Frank Thomas along with star players like Dave Stewart, Jack Morris, Jose Canseco, AJ Burnett and the aforementioned Russell Martin.

 

(*assume a normal world where he makes it)

 

"Rogers is too cheap"

 

The payroll has been pretty high since the Marlins trade and several of those signings I just mentioned has been under Rogers. They made substantial financial commitments to Bautista and Encarnacion once they broke out. We live in a FA world where star pitchers sit on the sidelines and the two best players remained unsigned until spring training. ALL teams are frugal with FA bucks now. The way to win is to develop your own players and make good trades with using the FA market to supplement the roster.

 

Good post... this forum is AIDS at the moment.

[Brownie19]

Maybe if he kepy Dwight Smith and Harold .413 BA Ramirez the team would be better.

 

Can't even evaluate his own players. Worst GM we have ever had...Smith has scored more runs and has more RBI than anyone on our team playing for the black hole Baltimore.

 

 

[glory]

It won't be Rogers that prevents the Jays from getting free agents, it will be Shatkins. They do not like free agency, and I think Shapiro has said as much publicly.

 

The biggest test for Atkins will be when he starts trading prospects for vets. In the current market, free agency is cheap, and vets with 1-2 years of control left are not as expensive to acquire in trades. That's where a quick turnaround could be possible, but if he's planning on trading Stroman, then the rotation will need practically 5 new starters unless you believe Thornton can stick there long term and Sanchez can throw 2 innings without his fingers falling off.

[Dick_Pole]

Good post... this forum is AIDS at the moment.

 

Well, to be fair, the team is also AIDS at the moment so we gotta expect some frustrations to vent. I prefer to take it out on a midget whipping boy trolling the NBA thread.

[Spanky99]

Well, to be fair, the team is also AIDS at the moment so we gotta expect some frustrations to vent. I prefer to take it out on a midget whipping boy trolling the NBA thread.

 

Same.

[Ex Player]

So much stupid going on ITT:

 

"Toronto will never sign big free agents".

 

No just Hall of Famers like Roger Clemens*, Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield and Frank Thomas along with star players like Dave Stewart, Jack Morris, Jose Canseco, AJ Burnett and the aforementioned Russell Martin.

 

(*assume a normal world where he makes it)

 

"Rogers is too cheap"

 

The payroll has been pretty high since the Marlins trade and several of those signings I just mentioned has been under Rogers. They made substantial financial commitments to Bautista and Encarnacion once they broke out. We live in a FA world where star pitchers sit on the sidelines and the two best players remained unsigned until spring training. ALL teams are frugal with FA bucks now. The way to win is to develop your own players and make good trades with using the FA market to supplement the roster

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts ever.

 

Clemens, Molitor, Winfield, Dave Stewart, Jack Morris and Jose Canseco were all signed well before Rogers bought the Jays in 2000.

Frank Thomas was 39 when they signed him, and was considered risky because of his age, which is why they got him for fairly cheap.

AJ Burnett was a good pitcher, but was never a big free agent signing (he never made the AS team until his final year in 2015).

Same with Russell Martin, a good solid catcher but a lifetime .250 hitter. I dont consider him a huge free agent either.

He is also Canadian which played a part in Rogers wanting to sign him.

 

So then lets look at all the big free agents Jays didnt sign since buying the team in 2000.

The list is a very long one.

 

Conclusion, as a general rule Rogers doesnt like to splurge cash on the biggest free agents that are available each year

[KevinGregg]

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts ever.

 

Clemens, Molitor, Winfield, Dave Stewart, Jack Morris and Jose Canseco were all signed well before Rogers bought the Jays in 2000.

Frank Thomas was 39 when they signed him, and was considered risky because of his age, which is why they got him for fairly cheap.

AJ Burnett was a good pitcher, but was never a big free agent signing (he never made the AS team until his final year in 2015).

Same with Russell Martin, a good solid catcher but a lifetime .250 hitter. I dont consider him a huge free agent either.

He is also Canadian which played a part in Rogers wanting to sign him.

 

So then lets look at all the big free agents Jays didnt sign since buying the team in 2000.

The list is a very long one.

 

Conclusion, as a general rule Rogers doesnt like to splurge cash on the biggest free agents that are available each year

 

Martin was easily the top FA catcher available and we paid out the ass to get him. Stop trolling bro

[Spanky99]

It won't be Rogers that prevents the Jays from getting free agents, it will be Shatkins. They do not like free agency, and I think Shapiro has said as much publicly.

 

The biggest test for Atkins will be when he starts trading prospects for vets. In the current market, free agency is cheap, and vets with 1-2 years of control left are not as expensive to acquire in trades. That's where a quick turnaround could be possible, but if he's planning on trading Stroman, then the rotation will need practically 5 new starters unless you believe Thornton can stick there long term and Sanchez can throw 2 innings without his fingers falling off.

 

This is objectively false, he's been on record saying when the time is right, they have the green light from ownership. There's far too many people on here running around like chicken littles, myself, I'm going to sit back and see what they do, in regards to this rebuild. I'm on team extend Stroman, if he asks for too much, only then do you move him for a haul. Hopefully this all works out. It's time to move Sanchize to the pen, long term. They'll do what's best for the team. FWIW... I agree with most of your post aside from free agency.

[Ex Player]

Martin was easily the top FA catcher available and we paid out the ass to get him. Stop trolling bro

Okay, so lets say Martin was a top FA catcher IYO. Thats one FA signing in the last 19 years.

All the other big stars (Josh, Tulo, Price....etc) were acquired through trades.

Bautista was signed when he was still developing and they got him for cheap.

Same thing with Encarnacion, he wasnt a big FA signing either (although Jays did offer him lots of $$ to stay in 2016).

 

Sorry, I hardly see any big FA signing in the last 19 years.

I wish they did sign more

[Spanky99]

Okay, so lets say Martin was a top FA catcher IYO. Thats one FA signing in the last 19 years.

All the other big stars (Josh, Tulo, Price....etc) were acquired through trades.

Bautista was signed when he was still developing and they got him for cheap.

Same thing with Encarnacion, he wasnt a big FA signing either (although Jays did offer him lots of $$ to stay in 2016).

 

Sorry, I hardly see any big FA signing in the last 19 years.

I wish they did sign more

 

So extensions and trade is void of large contracts? If players don't want to sign in Canada, what can you do, please stop, Toronto has had and worked with a large market payroll in the past, and that won't change in the near future?!

[Ex Player]

So extensions and trade is void of large contracts? If players don't want to sign in Canada, what can you do, please stop

My point that Rogers as a general rule doesnt like to sign big FA players stands.

Its a fact, sorry if that bothers you.

 

And lots of big FA players would come to Toronto if Rogers offered them the money

[Spanky99]

My point that Rogers as a general rule doesnt like to sign big FA players stands.

Its a fact, sorry if that bothers you.

 

And lots of big FA players would come to Toronto if Rogers offered them the money

 

Riiiiiight.

 

[BTS]

OK, let's look at some payroll numbers:

 

2016 = 152M (9th)

2017 = 176M (7th)

2018 = 151M (11th)

 

The idea that this team is going to be limited by payroll is not realistic. We had a very large payroll during the short competitive window, with Martin, Reyes, and Tulo all acquired on massive free agent contracts.

 

Assuming Rogers will allow the team to once again have a top 10 payroll when it's time to compete, we can stop pretending that that we're a mickey mouse organization that can't play at the top end of the free agent market. There's no reason why the team can't go get an ace on the market, aside from risk aversion from management.

[Brownie19]

This has got to be one of the dumbest posts ever.

 

Clemens, Molitor, Winfield, Dave Stewart, Jack Morris and Jose Canseco were all signed well before Rogers bought the Jays in 2000.

Frank Thomas was 39 when they signed him, and was considered risky because of his age, which is why they got him for fairly cheap.

AJ Burnett was a good pitcher, but was never a big free agent signing (he never made the AS team until his final year in 2015).

Same with Russell Martin, a good solid catcher but a lifetime .250 hitter. I dont consider him a huge free agent either.

He is also Canadian which played a part in Rogers wanting to sign him.

 

So then lets look at all the big free agents Jays didnt sign since buying the team in 2000.

The list is a very long one.

 

Conclusion, as a general rule Rogers doesnt like to splurge cash on the biggest free agents that are available each year

 

Okay, so lets say Martin was a top FA catcher IYO. Thats one FA signing in the last 19 years.

All the other big stars (Josh, Tulo, Price....etc) were acquired through trades.

Bautista was signed when he was still developing and they got him for cheap.

Same thing with Encarnacion, he wasnt a big FA signing either (although Jays did offer him lots of $$ to stay in 2016).

 

Sorry, I hardly see any big FA signing in the last 19 years.

I wish they did sign more

 

Dude - I think we all need to get to know you better. Can you answer these?

 

1. are you Rob Ducey?

2. are you a troll?

3. do you really believe average, ERA and counting stats are a good way to judge how good or valuable a player is?

 

Russell Martin is the 10th best catcher of all time (in terms of WAR) and we signed him on the perfect win curve projection and he provided incredible value to this team.

 

We extended Bautista AFTER his 54 HR (6.6 WAR) season in 2010...not what I would call "still developing".

 

Rogers has spent a lot of money on this team. We are consistently in the top 10 in payroll. Has that meant LOTS of FA signings? No....but I'd suggest you go research major FA signings in the MLB and report back on how successful those have been for teams over the past 10 years. What you'll find is it often doesn't pan out. FA is a tool teams can use to put them over the top; however, it's been shown over and over that using it as your main tool for building a team is often fools gold.

 

You seem new, and I don't want to rip you too much, but you say dumb things a lot it seems (which is why I asked if you're a troll). Sorry if that's harsh. I will tell you though that there are a lot of really smart baseball minds on this board. If you keep an open mind and read/listen/comprehend what they say you'll probably learn a lot (I know I have).