General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Brownie19]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-blue-jays-prospect-nate-pearson-is-rising-fast-as-is-his-heater/

 

Nate Pearson porn. NSFW.

[Barkerfan23]

Thats a surprise.

[keggy]

I would think so. San Diego got a consensus top 20 prospect (Francisco Mejia) for Brad Hand last deadline. There have been a number of large returns for elite relievers in recent years. A superb prospect or a package of solid prospects is not out of the question.

Giles is controllable for 2020 IIRC.

 

As you mention, the precedent for elite relievers to contenders at the deadline is very favorable to the sellers.

 

Andrew Miller got traded for Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield at the deadline, and Eduardo Rodriguez before that. The Cubs traded Gleyber Torres, Adam Warren, and Billy McKinney for half a season of Chapman. Brad Hand fetched Meija as you mentioned. Even the fact that the Astros gave up so much to take wife-beating Osuna off our hands shows how much of a premium contenders are willing to pay to upgrade the bullpen. Any return less than a shiny prospect for Giles should be considered a failure.

[The Iceman]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-blue-jays-prospect-nate-pearson-is-rising-fast-as-is-his-heater/

 

Nate Pearson porn. NSFW.

 

Trade him. Our window to win will be 2025 when Shatkins gets fired and Pearson will be too old at 28

 

By the way Smoak hit 2 bombs yesterday and one more that I thought for sure was gone when he hit it and gets a seat today...WTF. Does it take that much out of a guy to DH him, or is our lineup so strong that we can afford to sit our hottest hitter??

BRUTAL

All that you have to do is pencil Vladdy and Smoak everyday in your lineup. The rest i could not give a crap.

[King]

Giles to the Cubs for Ian Happ

[Brownie19]

Sanchez to the Cubs for Ian Happ

 

fify

[glory]

If we are trading our best assets for guys like Happ, then I think I'd rather just hold on to Giles and Stroman (extensions), and see if we can contend from 2020-beyond. We don't know what the next CBA will look like, but extensions for vets prior to them hitting free agency are looking a lot more reasonable. Unless the Jays get blown away with offers (see what the Yankees got for Andrew Miller as a comparison), then I'm not sure trading them even helps us. So far I trust this team's drafting more than I do their trading.

 

Jays will have no financial commitments aside from Grichuk from 2021. I think re-signing some actual good players on the team should be on the table at this point. I probably wouldn't have said that six months ago, but the trade market doesn't sound all that appealing anymore.

[Laika]

If we are trading our best assets for guys like Happ, then I think I'd rather just hold on to Giles and Stroman (extensions), and see if we can contend from 2020-beyond. We don't know what the next CBA will look like, but extensions for vets prior to them hitting free agency are looking a lot more reasonable. Unless the Jays get blown away with offers (see what the Yankees got for Andrew Miller as a comparison), then I'm not sure trading them even helps us. So far I trust this team's drafting more than I do their trading.

 

Jays will have no financial commitments aside from Grichuk from 2021. I think re-signing some actual good players on the team should be on the table at this point. I probably wouldn't have said that six months ago, but the trade market doesn't sound all that appealing anymore.

 

I think you're overcorrecting due to the fact that the Happ trade has not worked out so far.

 

I love trades. Trades are great. More trades please!

[Deadpool]

If we are trading our best assets for guys like Happ, then I think I'd rather just hold on to Giles and Stroman (extensions), and see if we can contend from 2020-beyond. We don't know what the next CBA will look like, but extensions for vets prior to them hitting free agency are looking a lot more reasonable. Unless the Jays get blown away with offers (see what the Yankees got for Andrew Miller as a comparison), then I'm not sure trading them even helps us. So far I trust this team's drafting more than I do their trading.

 

Jays will have no financial commitments aside from Grichuk from 2021. I think re-signing some actual good players on the team should be on the table at this point. I probably wouldn't have said that six months ago, but the trade market doesn't sound all that appealing anymore.

 

Trading Stroman is absolutely the wrong move. I could see trading Giles given the relative volatility of relievers (though he's top tier so less likely to fluctuate) but only for an A+ return. We do have to field a team next year and it would be nice if our "ace" wasn't Thornton.

[Laika]

Trading Stroman is absolutely the wrong move. I could see trading Giles given the relative volatility of relievers (though he's top tier so less likely to fluctuate) but only for an A+ return. We do have to field a team next year and it would be nice if our "ace" wasn't Thornton.

 

Not sure I can agree with that. Trading Stroman might actually be the right move, so it absolutely cannot absolutely be the wrong move!

[Terminator]

I think you have to field trade offers for Stroman and Giles. At age 28, both of them kind of line up with our goal of competing in 2021 but only if we extend them. Therefore I think they have to be at least shopped and the timing is good because both are playing very well and have an extra year of control for the team that acquires them. If we nailed massive hauls for both that could really jumpstart this rebuild. The Padres look like a really good fit. I hope they are in contention at the deadline but there isn't a contender in the league who wouldn't improve by acquiring either one of them so they are great trade chips.

 

Smoak and Galvis should be shopped as well but the returns would be pretty small I'd imagine. Sanchez too but he has no value whatsoever IMO.

 

Either way Shatkins is going to have to actually be active in FA for once in their careers if this team is going to compete in 2021.

[glory]

Trading Stroman is absolutely the wrong move. I could see trading Giles given the relative volatility of relievers (though he's top tier so less likely to fluctuate) but only for an A+ return. We do have to field a team next year and it would be nice if our "ace" wasn't Thornton.

 

I agree about Stroman. I think they have to re-sign him. The pitching in the system aside from Pearson looks pretty bad/unspectacular, and we have a 3+ WAR starter who wants to stay in Toronto and is embracing the rebuild as far as helping young players. He absolutely should be extended, as long as he's not asking for an insane number.

 

As you said, Giles can be moved for the right haul since he's a reliever, and I think a lot of our SP depth in AAA will end up in the pen and might be potential closers (SRF, Paulino, Perez). However, the return has to be right. I don't want to trade guys just to get 40 man roster depth. Either get real prospects or improve the big league team by keeping the good big leaguers.

 

What I might do with Sanchez is just move him to the pen and trade him next trade deadline as a RP. It might be too late for that now (plus he has a big enough ego to make a stink about not starting), but next year in his FA year just make him the set up man. He'll probably be a better trade asset even as a rental that way than he would be as a SP who can't go 2 starts without his finger nail falling off.

 

I'd also look to trade some 40 man roster depth, and some fringe type prospects for more MLB help on the pitching side. Arb eligible inning eaters like Tanner Roark could have helped the 2018 rotation and could have been acquired for very little.

[Carlos Danger]

Not sure I can agree with that. Trading Stroman might actually be the right move, so it absolutely cannot absolutely be the wrong move!

 

I have obtained Price Waterhouse to keep track of my royalty payments. You might end up being better than my 401K.

[Boxcar]

Not sure I can agree with that. Trading Stroman might actually be the right move, so it absolutely cannot absolutely be the wrong move!

 

Not sure I can agree with the fact that you're not sure if you can agree with that

[Boxcar]

I think you have to field trade offers for Stroman and Giles. At age 28, both of them kind of line up with our goal of competing in 2021 but only if we extend them. Therefore I think they have to be at least shopped and the timing is good because both are playing very well and have an extra year of control for the team that acquires them. If we nailed massive hauls for both that could really jumpstart this rebuild. The Padres look like a really good fit. I hope they are in contention at the deadline but there isn't a contender in the league who wouldn't improve by acquiring either one of them so they are great trade chips.

 

Smoak and Galvis should be shopped as well but the returns would be pretty small I'd imagine. Sanchez too but he has no value whatsoever IMO.

 

Either way Shatkins is going to have to actually be active in FA for once in their careers if this team is going to compete in 2021.

 

The Padres ALWAYS think they're in contention. I wouldn't worry about that part

[The Iceman]

Giles to the Cubs for Ian Happ

 

u must be a Cubs fan. That would be horrible for the Jays.

 

A young SP from Atlanta is my preference

[BlueRocky]

If he can turn on a 93mph fastball like he did for the HR and curl it barely inside the foul pole, he can turn on anyone's fastball.

 

Also it was an upper decker, which is even more impressive

 

Fans will need some patience with Biggio, he might be older than Vlad but he’s nowhere near a finished product. The guy is a bit of a late bloomer.

Biggio has plus raw power, and his plate discipline is real. When he puts it all together, and it might take awhile, I can see an everyday player that absolutely launches in places like Yankee stadium.

 

His strikeouts need to be kept down though, and defensively he is still a work in progress. But Biggio exceeding expectations could really help accelerate this rebuild.

[FrozenRopes]

Trade Giles, DFA Sanchez, Thorton to close, fire everyone. Nate Pearson call up.

[xposbrad]

I think you have to field trade offers for Stroman and Giles. At age 28, both of them kind of line up with our goal of competing in 2021 but only if we extend them. Therefore I think they have to be at least shopped and the timing is good because both are playing very well and have an extra year of control for the team that acquires them. If we nailed massive hauls for both that could really jumpstart this rebuild. The Padres look like a really good fit. I hope they are in contention at the deadline but there isn't a contender in the league who wouldn't improve by acquiring either one of them so they are great trade chips.

 

Smoak and Galvis should be shopped as well but the returns would be pretty small I'd imagine. Sanchez too but he has no value whatsoever IMO.

 

Either way Shatkins is going to have to actually be active in FA for once in their careers if this team is going to compete in 2021.

 

2021 is still going to be a stretch for this team to be competitive. Not competitive like a bit over .500, but in terms of fighting for the playoffs. There's not enough high upside talent right now. Shatkins will still need to acquire 2+ studs on top of what we have in our system now, so there is a nice core of bats/pitchers near the same age. Plus you know it will take 1-2 years of adding free agents to compliment that, and I doubt they will go big this off season. Realistically this team is looking at 2022+ , and that's if a lot of our prospects develop as we think (ie Jansen etc..).

[Bobthe4th]

2021 is still going to be a stretch for this team to be competitive. Not competitive like a bit over .500, but in terms of fighting for the playoffs. There's not enough high upside talent right now. Shatkins will still need to acquire 2+ studs on top of what we have in our system now, so there is a nice core of bats/pitchers near the same age. Plus you know it will take 1-2 years of adding free agents to compliment that, and I doubt they will go big this off season. Realistically this team is looking at 2022+ , and that's if a lot of our prospects develop as we think (ie Jansen etc..).

 

That’s pessimistic IMO - 2 years is a long time.

 

On paper we already have the entire infield sorted for 2021 from prospects who are already here or due to be called up relatively soon, with at least one star level player among them. We’re also going to be getting some interesting returns at the trade deadline. And who’s to say someone in the system like Forest Wall doesn’t turn into an above average player?

 

We also have tonnes of payroll space coming up so there’s no excuse if we are already a .500 team or better in the 2020 offseason and don’t spend on areas of need (e.g. the rotation).

[Brownie19]

2021 is still going to be a stretch for this team to be competitive. Not competitive like a bit over .500, but in terms of fighting for the playoffs. There's not enough high upside talent right now. Shatkins will still need to acquire 2+ studs on top of what we have in our system now, so there is a nice core of bats/pitchers near the same age. Plus you know it will take 1-2 years of adding free agents to compliment that, and I doubt they will go big this off season. Realistically this team is looking at 2022+ , and that's if a lot of our prospects develop as we think (ie Jansen etc..).

 

Take a gander at what's happening in SD to see how quickly things can change. 66-96 in 2018 and 2 games over .500 this year. Or the Braves in 2017 v. the Braves in 2018 and 2019. Both teams have added young talent to a group of existing pieces and when you break it down, the likes of Vlady, Bo, Jansen, Biggio, Pearson, Murphy, Thornton + payroll flexibility is fairly comparable to the pieces those teams have added.

 

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but things can change quickly.

[Ex Player]

Take a gander at what's happening in SD to see how quickly things can change. 66-96 in 2018 and 2 games over .500 this year. Or the Braves in 2017 v. the Braves in 2018 and 2019. Both teams have added young talent to a group of existing pieces and when you break it down, the likes of Vlady, Bo, Jansen, Biggio, Pearson, Murphy, Thornton + payroll flexibility is fairly comparable to the pieces those teams have added.

 

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but things can change quickly

Now thats looking on the positive side!

[Ray]

Take a gander at what's happening in SD to see how quickly things can change. 66-96 in 2018 and 2 games over .500 this year. Or the Braves in 2017 v. the Braves in 2018 and 2019. Both teams have added young talent to a group of existing pieces and when you break it down, the likes of Vlady, Bo, Jansen, Biggio, Pearson, Murphy, Thornton + payroll flexibility is fairly comparable to the pieces those teams have added.

 

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but things can change quickly.

 

It'd be nice if we could flip Stroman, Giles, and Sanchez for close to ready and controllable big league talent and use our financial flexbility to get a big arm like Gerrit Cole to solidify the top of the rotation for the long term. Tons of money off the books after this season, especially if we're trading away some of our arb players too.

[Bobthe4th]

It'd be nice if we could flip Stroman, Giles, and Sanchez for close to ready and controllable big league talent and use our financial flexbility to get a big arm like Gerrit Cole to solidify the top of the rotation for the long term. Tons of money off the books after this season, especially if we're trading away some of our arb players too.

 

IMO Shatkins are far too conservative to attempt to spend heavily this offseason on free agents. I believe they will wait until we have a promising team, with at least some players looking like they are going to be significant long term contributors.

[BTS]

It'd be nice if we could flip Stroman, Giles, and Sanchez for close to ready and controllable big league talent and use our financial flexbility to get a big arm like Gerrit Cole to solidify the top of the rotation for the long term. Tons of money off the books after this season, especially if we're trading away some of our arb players too.

 

There isn't a better fit on the FA market than Gerrit Cole. Something like 6/210 would be amazing.

 

Cole

Stroman

Thornton

Shoemaker

Borucki/Pearson/Waguespack/SRF/Paulino

 

Legit AF. Get it done Shatkins.

[Ex Player]

There isn't a better fit on the FA market than Gerrit Cole. Something like 6/210 would be amazing.

 

Cole

Stroman

Thornton

Shoemaker

Borucki/Pearson/Waguespack/SRF/Paulino

 

Legit AF. Get it done Shatkins

Would Cole sign with the Jays though?? Why leave a contender for a mediocre team??

I guess the only way is if Jays offer him more $alary than Stros, but even thats no guarantee

[BTS]

Would Cole sign with the Jays though?? Why leave a contender for a mediocre team??

I guess the only way is if Jays offer him more $alary than Stros, but even thats no guarantee

 

Who knows?! Seems like if the important young guys (Vlad, Biggio, Jansen) push a bit in the second half Toronto should probably be willing to outbid almost anyone else for his services.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

2021 is still going to be a stretch for this team to be competitive. Not competitive like a bit over .500, but in terms of fighting for the playoffs. There's not enough high upside talent right now. Shatkins will still need to acquire 2+ studs on top of what we have in our system now, so there is a nice core of bats/pitchers near the same age. Plus you know it will take 1-2 years of adding free agents to compliment that, and I doubt they will go big this off season. Realistically this team is looking at 2022+ , and that's if a lot of our prospects develop as we think (ie Jansen etc..).

 

I think that is pessimistic. A .500 team right now would be in playoff hunt. By next year, with a few additions, a few games above .500 isn't impossible by any stretch.

[Brownie19]

Would Cole sign with the Jays though?? Why leave a contender for a mediocre team??

I guess the only way is if Jays offer him more $alary than Stros, but even thats no guarantee

 

why would Machado sign in SD?

[Daniel Labude]

why would Machado sign in SD?

 

Young talent, future potential, its SD, and money