General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[glory]

Ross knee deep in s*** trying to defend this. Lol. We know why you're doing it Ross. Just nod and smile until 2-3 weeks into the season.

[Krylian]

Ross knee deep in s*** trying to defend this. Lol. We know why you're doing it Ross. Just nod and smile until 2-3 weeks into the season.

 

He'll probably wait 4 weeks so it's not as obvious and he can create plausible deniability.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

$7-8M AAV for over 2-3 years?

 

Aaron Hicks is getting $10M per season (which we all agree isn't much) and has been a far better player than Grichuk so far.

 

I really like Grichuk, and was hoping he was one of the pieces the Jays got back if they traded Donaldson last off season to st. Louis.

 

I would love to sign him to a 3-year, $24M contract with a no trade clause. I think he's a player that will mature into a really consistent, above average OF. And I like his other skills, too.

[L54]

Has to be a little more incentive on Grichuk’s part to sign an extension. He’ll make ~8M next year in arb I would imagine. 4/40 in today’s climate where the Jays buyout next year’s arb in exchange for three FA years

[Brownie19]

Has to be a little more incentive on Grichuk’s part to sign an extension. He’ll make ~8M next year in arb I would imagine. 4/40 in today’s climate where the Jays buyout next year’s arb in exchange for three FA years

 

I don't disagree, but this really highlights how insane it is that the Yanks got Hicks for 7 yrs $70M. Hicks has essentially been as good as Bryce Harper of the past 2 seasons.

[Krylian]

 

lol

 

His statement comes across as kind of insulting. He really could've chosen better wording.

[BTS]

 

lol

 

Ross needs to tone it down a bit here. He doesn't actually have to explain himself to anyone, and there's certainly no point in pretending Vlad isn't ready for the majors.

[LGBJ29]

I don't disagree, but this really highlights how insane it is that the Yanks got Hicks for 7 yrs $70M. Hicks has essentially been as good as Bryce Harper of the past 2 seasons.

 

He's been great the past 2 seasons, but I don't think that contract is insane. 2 Years ago he was a 27 year old coming off a negative WAR season (64 wRC+!). 7 years is a ton of security for a 29 year old in this type of FA market, even if it means sacrificing some dollars these next couple years.

[DigitalRock]

The casuals are going to love that comment about Vlad.

[Brownie19]

He's been great the past 2 seasons, but I don't think that contract is insane. 2 Years ago he was a 27 year old coming off a negative WAR season (64 wRC+!). 7 years is a ton of security for a 29 year old in this type of FA market, even if it means sacrificing some dollars these next couple years.

 

I meant in context that an extension for Grichuk might require the same AAV as Hicks - who's a much better player.

[Abomination]

Ross needs to tone it down a bit here. He doesn't actually have to explain himself to anyone, and there's certainly no point in pretending Vlad isn't ready for the majors.

 

I think he's trolling the writers. All he says is that Vlad isn't a major league player yet, which he's correct in saying ... he hasn't played a MLB game yet.

[Krylian]

I think he's trolling the writers. All he says is that Vlad isn't a major league player yet, which he's correct in saying ... he hasn't played a MLB game yet.

 

There's a more eloquent way of saying that than what he went with.

[L54]

I don't disagree, but this really highlights how insane it is that the Yanks got Hicks for 7 yrs $70M. Hicks has essentially been as good as Bryce Harper of the past 2 seasons.

 

This is more of a testament to how disappointing Harper has been vs how great Hicks has been.

[L54]

I meant in context that an extension for Grichuk might require the same AAV as Hicks - who's a much better player.

 

He has been but I think it’s clear Hicks took a bit of a discount AAV wise to secure years in a place he obviously wants to be. Grichuk isn’t going to forego FA without some incentive. Plus this hypothetical is three less years.

 

Create a place where guys want to play and retaining players becomes easier.

[Brownie19]

This is more of a testament to how disappointing Harper has been vs how great Hicks has been.

 

Not sure I agree. Hicks was the 22nd best positional player in MLB last year. He's really good. Great K/BB ratio, good speed, good defense, good power.

 

Harper was a f***ing beast in 2015. His average WAR/season for the other 6 seasons is 3.56, which is below the 4.1 that Hicks has averaged the past 2 seasons. Hicks is older and maybe doesn't have the upside, but to get him for $10M a season is criminal. I mean we're paying f***in Morales $11M this year. The Rockies are paying a ton of s***** relievers $9M a season.

[LGBJ29]

I meant in context that an extension for Grichuk might require the same AAV as Hicks - who's a much better player.

 

You have to consider term not just AAV. Especially at that age. 7 years at age 29 is a massive difference to 4 years at age 27.

 

Plus, heading into his age 27 season Hicks amassed 2.2 career WAR where Grichuk is at 8.9 WAR. Grichuk likely wont be putting up Hicks type numbers the next 2 seasons but I think he can definitely improve to the 3.0-3.5 range in his prime. Hicks on the other hand at age 30 and beyond when his defence/speed starts to decline will likely regress to the same area. So the AAV makes sense to be around the same, especially given the term is almost double for Hicks and he is 2 years older.

[Sammy225]

Teoscar with two walks seems f***ing wierd

[Brownie19]

You have to consider term not just AAV. Especially at that age. 7 years at age 29 is a massive difference to 4 years at age 27.

 

Plus, heading into his age 27 season Hicks amassed 2.2 career WAR where Grichuk is at 8.9 WAR. Grichuk likely wont be putting up Hicks type numbers the next 2 seasons but I think he can definitely improve to the 3.0-3.5 range in his prime. Hicks on the other hand at age 30 and beyond when his defence/speed starts to decline will likely regress to the same area. So the AAV makes sense to be around the same, especially given the term is almost double for Hicks and he is 2 years older.

 

Hick will play this entire season as a 29 year old and I think you could argue that signing him for 4 years $64M would have been a solid deal for the Yanks (same AAV as L.Cain got). Yes, the 7 years is significant; however, it comes at such a discount that there's almost no risk.

 

Grichuk is 2 years younger and after 4 full seasons has shown little to no improvement. You may be right - we may see some modest gains this year and next - perhaps back to 3 or 3.5 WAR, but his K/BB ratio, base running and defense hold him back from being much more. Hicks is a superior player and to think the Yanks could get him at the same AAV as it would take to extend Grichuk is a testament to how good of a deal the Yanks got Hicks at.

[saskjayfan]

Hick will play this entire season as a 29 year old and I think you could argue that signing him for 4 years $64M would have been a solid deal for the Yanks (same AAV as L.Cain got). Yes, the 7 years is significant; however, it comes at such a discount that there's almost no risk.

 

Grichuk is 2 years younger and after 4 full seasons has shown little to no improvement. You may be right - we may see some modest gains this year and next - perhaps back to 3 or 3.5 WAR, but his K/BB ratio, base running and defense hold him back from being much more. Hicks is a superior player and to think the Yanks could get him at the same AAV as it would take to extend Grichuk is a testament to how good of a deal the Yanks got Hicks at.

 

Grichuk isn't a bad defender or base runner. He's still got upside. You could have said the same thing about Hicks from age 23 to 26...he had shown little to no improvement and then he took off. Grichuk is still young enough make strides and he has the athleticism. It may never materialize, but the Jays pretty much specialize in late bloomers. Bautista, EE, smoak...why not Grichuk.

[Krylian]

Teoscar with two walks seems f***ing wierd

 

Don't you worry. Pillar is selective in spring training too.

[Spanky99]

Teoscar with two walks seems f***ing wierd

 

Don't you worry. Pillar is selective in spring training too.

 

Teoscar's walk rate has never been bad, nothing like Pillar. Now K rate, is a different animal.

[Boxcar]

Grichuk isn't a bad defender or base runner. He's still got upside. You could have said the same thing about Hicks from age 23 to 26...he had shown little to no improvement and then he took off. Grichuk is still young enough make strides and he has the athleticism. It may never materialize, but the Jays pretty much specialize in late bloomers. Bautista, EE, smoak...why not Grichuk.

 

Kinda helps that unlike those other guys prior to their breakouts, Grichuk is already a good player.

[Brownie19]

Grichuk isn't a bad defender or base runner. He's still got upside. You could have said the same thing about Hicks from age 23 to 26...he had shown little to no improvement and then he took off. Grichuk is still young enough make strides and he has the athleticism. It may never materialize, but the Jays pretty much specialize in late bloomers. Bautista, EE, smoak...why not Grichuk.

 

It's the fact that's he's just "not bad" that holds him back. Hicks provides a lot more value defensively and on the base paths.

[Spanky99]

It's the fact that's he's just "not bad" that holds him back. Hicks provides a lot more value defensively and on the base paths.

 

What are you arguing exactly, his(Grichuk's) future value against what Hicks has done so far? Or you'd be against an extension?

[tercet]

Teoscar's walk rate has never been bad, nothing like Pillar. Now K rate, is a different animal.

 

wtf spanky said something that makes sense.

 

The mirage had a sexy second half K% of 39!

 

But ST stats mean like nada, the level of competition varies so much AB to AB, pitchers working on pitches, hitters swinging for the fences, etc

[LGBJ29]

Hick will play this entire season as a 29 year old and I think you could argue that signing him for 4 years $64M would have been a solid deal for the Yanks (same AAV as L.Cain got). Yes, the 7 years is significant; however, it comes at such a discount that there's almost no risk.

 

Grichuk is 2 years younger and after 4 full seasons has shown little to no improvement. You may be right - we may see some modest gains this year and next - perhaps back to 3 or 3.5 WAR, but his K/BB ratio, base running and defense hold him back from being much more. Hicks is a superior player and to think the Yanks could get him at the same AAV as it would take to extend Grichuk is a testament to how good of a deal the Yanks got Hicks at.

 

Hicks went from 2.0 WAR to -0.2 WAR after his age 25 and 26 seasons respectively, would you have argued the same for him then?

 

I do agree Hicks contract is a good one for the yanks but I think you're way too stuck on AAV and completely disregarding term. I think Grichuk at 4/40 right now is very comparable in value to Hicks at 7/70

 

It's the fact that's he's just "not bad" that holds him back. Hicks provides a lot more value defensively and on the base paths.

 

And thats exactly the kinda stuff that declines the fastest after 30, look at Adam Jones

[Spanky99]

So you guys are discussing term? Haha...

[Spanky99]

Go away Bean!

[jaysfan2014]

Bud Norris to the Blue Jays.

 

Jays must've decided to sign him after Ken Giles imploded in today's outing..

 

And regarding Giles:

 

0.0 IP, 2H, 4ER, 3 BB.. either he's working on something or he's hiding an injury. Because that is ugly..

[Krylian]

Bud Norris to the Blue Jays.

 

Jays must've decided to sign him after Ken Giles imploded in today's outing..

 

And regarding Giles:

 

0.0 IP, 2H, 4ER, 3 BB.. either he's working on something or he's hiding an injury. Because that is ugly..

 

What was the velocity like?