Bill James sparks outrage

[G-Snarls]

Trying to find the actual comments

[G-Snarls]

[glory]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25216412/comments-boston-red-sox-adviser-bill-james-draws-ire-mlbpa-players

 

MLBPA executive director Tony Clark and several major league players have taken Boston Red Sox special adviser Bill James to task for saying players are as important to the game as "beer vendors" and that "the game would go on" with whoever replaces them.

 

In a series of tweets, some of which were later deleted, James challenged on social media "to explain why a player making $3 million a year is underpaid" and why it's "disingenuous to argue that [players] are taking money out of the mouths of concessions workers."

 

"If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them," James continued. "The game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever. The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are."

[Krylian]

Basically said if every baseball player quit tomorrow they could be replaced with others...and within 3 years, you wouldn't even notice a difference as new talent would rise to match what was left...of that's kind of the gist of it.

[Krylian]

He's really not wrong though. But it's a hot take, and of course ball players who have had their dicks buffed by people their entire lives are gonna get bent out of shape over it.

[G-Snarls]

He's really not wrong though. But it's a hot take, and of course ball players who have had their dicks buffed by people their entire lives are gonna get bent out of shape over it.

 

Like Justin Verlander? LOL

 

[BTS]

He's right. Eliminate the best 1,000 current players from MLB orgs and the gameplay would be almost indistinguishable once they've been replaced by the next-best 1,000 players. Jabari Blash vs. AAA pitching would put up JD Martinez numbers, and not really look different doing it to the naked eye.

[Bobthe4th]

He's really not wrong though. But it's a hot take, and of course ball players who have had their dicks buffed by people their entire lives are gonna get bent out of shape over it.

 

Haha, he is wrong though............. if all the beer vendors retired tomorrow anyone on this board could do their job to a similar standard. If all the baseball players retired, the quality of players and therefore quality of the baseball wouldn't recover to the same level for years.

[Bobthe4th]

He's right. Eliminate the best 1,000 current players from MLB orgs and the gameplay would be almost indistinguishable once they've been replaced by the next-best 1,000 players. Jabari Blash vs. AAA pitching would put up JD Martinez numbers, and not really look different doing it to the naked eye.

 

While in theory traditional stats might not drop significantly, the quality of pitching would be noticeably worse.

[G-Snarls]

He's right. Eliminate the best 1,000 current players from MLB orgs and the gameplay would be almost indistinguishable once they've been replaced by the next-best 1,000 players. Jabari Blash vs. AAA pitching would put up JD Martinez numbers, and not really look different doing it to the naked eye.

 

And ticket prices would drop making it way more affordable to attend games

 

Let's try this

[BTS]

While in theory traditional stats might not drop significantly, the quality of pitching would be noticeably worse.

 

For a few hardcore fans yeah. Like 99% of MLB's audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Jacob deGrom dominating MLB hitters in 2018 and Taylor Widener dominating lesser MLB hitters in 2019.

[Dr. Dinger]

Gotta love it when a smart person says something outside the box and the context of his thought experiment is totally disregarded in the haste to distance an organization from any potential controversy. Better fire him asap!

[Bobthe4th]

For a few hardcore fans yeah. Like 99% of MLB's audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Jacob deGrom dominating MLB hitters in 2018 and Taylor Widener dominating lesser MLB hitters in 2019.

 

Sure there would be a few minor league pitchers who could do a passable impression of an ace straight away, especially as they'd be facing worse hitters. But IMO the loss of all the All Star / Cy Young level pitchers would be a lot more noticeable than the loss of the the equivalent batters.

[Bobthe4th]

And ticket prices would drop making it way more affordable to attend games

 

Let's try this

 

Lol at owners dropping ticket prices for an inferior product.

[G-Snarls]

Lol at owners dropping ticket prices for an inferior product.

 

Red Sox payroll would drop from 217M to about 15-20M. With further savings by not paying James anymore.

 

Surely they could shave a couple bucks off. Or at least give out free peanuts or something.

[Dick_Pole]

Mark Buehrle would have been considered to have top stuff when I first started watching baseball in 1989.

 

Saying to replace today's players with other lesser players from today and this guy gets roasted. Say to replace them with players from the 1980's who have the same talent level as today's replacements and he's a traditionalist that will be fawned on by everyone. Say to replace today's players with Babe Ruth and Bill James will get his ******* licked for being a top notch traditionalist. Whereas if Babe Ruth was playing today he'd be at Rowdy Tellez level of talent, probably. I'm really just speaking out of my ass on that one and will let the stat nerds work to prove this narrative if they want.

[Brownie19]

Sure there would be a few minor league pitchers who could do a passable impression of an ace straight away, especially as they'd be facing worse hitters. But IMO the loss of all the All Star / Cy Young level pitchers would be a lot more noticeable than the loss of the the equivalent batters.

 

I think you're underestimating the impact of facing replacement hitters. It would make a lot of replacement pitchers look like aces. It's all relative.

[Dick_Pole]

Gotta love it when a smart person says something outside the box and the context of his thought experiment is totally disregarded in the haste to distance an organization from any potential controversy. Better fire him asap!

 

At least we know the feigned outrage of the social media world isn't confined to stupid SJW movements. In that way this is good news.

 

I expect a green frog in Bill James' likeness to become a new meme soon.

[Bobthe4th]

I think you're underestimating the impact of facing replacement hitters. It would make a lot of replacement pitchers look like aces. It's all relative.

 

Yeah you've got a good point, it's certainly true that in baseball the difference in watching elite players vs quite good players is much smaller than in a lot of other sports.

[Jimcanuck]

Bill James is not wrong. To any casual observer, no difference.

 

For decades some of the best players in the world were banned from playing MLB. Made no difference.

 

And actually, if only US and Cdn born players were allowed to play MLB (sorry, Ang), attendance and ratings would be the same, or maybe higher taking into account certain mindsets.

[BTS]

 

What a pathetic tweet. And 95% of the comments on it are made by stupid people.

[Bobthe4th]

What a pathetic tweet. And 95% of the comments on it are made by stupid people.

 

You have to concede that the statement "the players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are" is dumb, and detracts from his more general points.

[G-Snarls]

You have to concede that the statement "the players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are" is dumb, and detracts from his more general points.

 

Big time

 

People pay to watch the players play

 

And they watch on TV

 

They might drink beer but they couldn't give a crap about who is giving or to them. It could be from a vending machine and no one would care.

[jaysblue]

Big time

 

People pay to watch the players play

 

And they watch on TV

 

They might drink beer but they couldn't give a crap about who is giving or to them. It could be from a vending machine and no one would care.

 

In Japan, they have vending machines on the street that sell beer.

 

Not a bad idea at ballgames. As well, wouldn't feel pressured tipping someone who just grabs a can from the fridge and opens it for you.

[jaysblue]

Also, in Japan you're allowed to bring in your own beer to the games. Just need to pour the beer into a plastic cup as you enter the ballpark.

[DaKiNdLa]

Been thinking about this subject a bit lately and didn't really know where to post but here seems like a good spot..

 

What If the owners decided on a say 50mill salary cap? What would the players ACTUALLY do? I know they would strike but realistically after a season or two, they could be replaced. Would minor leaguers strike too? (Not super familiar with the last strike). If not teams could basically just turn their AAA into their major league team. I'd imagine guys making 50k a year would jump on 500k contracts. I know in Canada in order to break a union you basically have to shut the doors to the plant (5 years?) before you can hire scab workers but I dont believe such rules exist for pro sports leagues

[G-Snarls]

Also, in Japan you're allowed to bring in your own beer to the games. Just need to pour the beer into a plastic cup as you enter the ballpark.

 

[G-Snarls]

Mmmmm

 

Beer

[jaysblue]

 

Funny thing, Sapporo isn't the most popular beer in Japan, unless you're in Hokkaido. Asahi, Kirin and Suntory are much more popular among the Japanese. As well, I never saw that 650 mL can of Sapporo in Japan. I think it's only in North America.

[P2F]

This is going to make an excellent topic for the podcast.