Offseason Roster Thread

[Spanky99]

Tulo would refuse the assignment and we would have to release him along with all of his salary.

 

Same goes for Martin, that wouldn't make any sense. Someone would just sign them at bargain basement salaries and benefit at the deadline, if they have a dead cat bounce back. That would be ridiculous.

[Spanky99]

Some interesting names being left unprotected. Hmmm.

 

I think so, even Jon Harris would be a decent pick up as a reliever for a team(no risk), along with those 4 other guys.

[Mikeleelop]

No, not that I'm aware of, they're unprotected and eligible to be drafted. Players that get drafted have to stay on the MLB 25 man roster, or sent back to the original team if it doesn't work out as long as they aren't claimed on waivers from another team, same rules apply.

 

Edit: Here's a link... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft

 

remember the rule V draft is fairly inconsequential. Last year only 18 players were selected in the MLB portion - NO blue jays. in the minor league 43 players were selected. Only one Blue Jay Mitch Nay - who stayed at single A last season......

[glory]

Yeah I think people are making too big a deal out of this. Maybe the jays lose a player or two. It happens when you have a deep system and can’t protect everyone. The chances of it coming back and hurting the Jays (or any other team) long term is pretty slim. Johan Santana situations are about as unlikely as humanly possible. Needle in a haystack. The Giants never shed a tear for losing Joe Biagini who actually did really well for a playoff team in 2016, and that’s a rare example of a Rule 5 pick actually working out. I think we will survive.

[Spanky99]

remember the rule V draft is fairly inconsequential. Last year only 18 players were selected in the MLB portion - NO blue jays. in the minor league 43 players were selected. Only one Blue Jay Mitch Nay - who stayed at single A last season......

 

I'm aware, mate. This year's draft seems much better concerning players available. Not a big deal, I just wouldn't be surprised if multiple guys were selected from our team, alone. The likelihood of the Jays regretting whom they didn't protect is likely very slim.

[Spanky99]

Yeah I think people are making too big a deal out of this. Maybe the jays lose a player or two. It happens when you have a deep system and can’t protect everyone. The chances of it coming back and hurting the Jays (or any other team) long term is pretty slim. Johan Santana situations are about as unlikely as humanly possible. Needle in a haystack. The Giants never shed a tear for losing Joe Biagini who actually did really well for a playoff team in 2016, and that’s a rare example of a Rule 5 pick actually working out. I think we will survive.

 

It's not a big deal, it's basically something to talk about until the GM meetings in December. Also there have been some pretty good Rule 5 selections in the past, far better than the Beeg, if I'm not mistaken George Bell was a rule 5 guy or was it Lloyd Moseby, Uggla, Santana, Herrera, Hamilton, and a bunch of pretty good relievers, etc...

Edited November 22, 2018 by Spanky99
Moseby or Bell?

[TheHurl]

It's not a big deal, it's basically something to talk about until the GM meetings in December. Also there have been some pretty good Rule 5 selections in the past, far better than the Beeg, if I'm not mistaken George Bell was a rule 5 guy or was it Lloyd Moseby, Uggla, Santana, Herrera, Hamilton, and a bunch of pretty good relievers, etc...

 

Bell, Marwin Gonzalez as well.

 

But I still agree with Glory here. It's not that big of a deal. Braves, Rockies, Dodgers, Marlins, Pirates, Padres, Cards, Orioles, Indians, Royals, Angels, Yankees, Rays, and Jays all at 40. Meaning if they want to make a pick they have to drop a player before December 12th. Then add in that Riley Ferrell, Tyler Jay (he could still be a dominant lefty specialist), Cody Ponce, Josh Ockinney, Max Schrock, Rob Whalen, Richie Martin, Marcus Wilson, Sandro Fabien, Jake Gatewood, Jordan Johnson, are all guys (along with Romano) who are being mentioned as guys expected to be picked. No way Jays lose more than 2...and I doubt more than 1.

[Spanky99]

Bell, Marwin Gonzalez as well.

 

But I still agree with Glory here. It's not that big of a deal. Braves, Rockies, Dodgers, Marlins, Pirates, Padres, Cards, Orioles, Indians, Royals, Angels, Yankees, Rays, and Jays all at 40. Meaning if they want to make a pick they have to drop a player before December 12th. Then add in that Riley Ferrell, Tyler Jay (he could still be a dominant lefty specialist), Cody Ponce, Josh Ockinney, Max Schrock, Rob Whalen, Richie Martin, Jordan Johnson, are all guys (along with Romano) who are being mentioned as guys expected to be picked. No way Jays lose more than 2...and I doubt more than 1.

 

I get that, the talent pool is well, I.... *never mind, we'll see*

[Boxcar]

OOOHhohoooh I will take one Max Schrock plzzzz

 

Wonder if the Cistulli factor will be in play. Guy loves Max Schrock.

 

The author of this post is afflicted by all manner of loathsome affectations. Like referring to all red wines as “claret,” for example. Or like referring to himself constantly in the third person, for other example. He is truly disgusting on the inside and out.

 

Having said that, it’s worth noting that the constant appearance of Max Schrock among these Fringe Five posts is not the expression of a loathsome affectation but rather a sincere belief in Schrock’s capacities as a ballplayer.

 

Traded from Oakland to St. Louis this past offseason in the deal that sent Stephen Piscotty to the A’s, Schrock has begun the season in almost precisely the same fashion as he passed the entire 2017 campaign — in this case, against Triple-A opponents and not the Double-A sort. In 33 plate appearances, Schrock has struck out just once. He has recorded the fifth-best swinging-strike rate of the 244 qualified hitters at Triple-A. He’s homered once. He’s played second base just fine according to the best public estimate of minor-league defense.

[KevinGregg]

Cardno

12:38 What kind of trade value does Marcus Stroman have at this stage?

 

Kiley McDaniel

12:41 I know that ask was multiple top 100 guys in a few cases at the deadline and nobody bit. 2 years of control of a 55-60 PV/FV pitcher coming off a down year. There isn't a recent version of that trade coming to mind. Sonny Gray was 2.5 years and he was pitching well when traded

 

If Marcus just had an average season this year then the Gerrit Cole trade last off-season would have been a pretty close comparable. Stroman is basically one year behind Cole in terms of when his clock started, so trading Stroman this offseason would be comparable to trading Cole last offseason.

 

-Both players would have 2 years of control left at the time of the trade

-Arbitration valued Stroman very similar to Cole, in that they awarded him a $6.5M salary which is just under what Cole made (6.75M)

-Stroman has 10.6 bWAR going into next season compared to Cole who had 11.4 going into last year - fWAR has never been as kind to Stroman so Cole is farther ahead by that metric

 

Obviously Stroman coming off a bad year significantly hurts his value but it would have been a really close comparable if Stroman even had a slightly below average year instead of being total crap.

 

Pittsburgh only got Joe Musgrove, Michael Feliz, Colin Moran and Jason Martin for Cole, which definitely should represent the top end of a return for Stroman, which isn't terribly exciting to me. As someone who really only knows about top prospects none of those names jump out at me.

[Ray]

Stroman at the deadline if he's performing well is worth a lot more than Stroman is now. It's hard to see him having a season worse than he did. I'd hold on to him.

[Laika]

Pittsburgh only got Joe Musgrove, Michael Feliz, Colin Moran and Jason Martin for Cole, which definitely should represent the top end of a return for Stroman, which isn't terribly exciting to me. As someone who really only knows about top prospects none of those names jump out at me.

 

Musgrove was worth 2 WAR alone in only 19 starts last year. Feliz and Moran project to be MLB contributors in 2019, and Feliz probably has legit closer upside. Martin has very intriguing MiLB numbers up until the second half of 2018. That trade is going to be worth it for Pittsburgh, on paper.

[Spanky99]

Musgrove was worth 2 WAR alone in only 19 starts last year. Feliz and Moran project to be MLB contributors in 2019, and Feliz probably has legit closer upside. Martin has very intriguing MiLB numbers up until the second half of 2018. That trade is going to be worth it for Pittsburgh, on paper.

 

I remember Hurl liking the return on this, as well.

 

Yup... lol.

 

Pirates win the Cole deal as early as this year. Guaranteed

[Laika]

I remember Hurl liking the return on this, as well.

 

Yup... lol.

 

lol.... Guaranteed

[glory]

I could see the Astros trading for Stroman. Fits their timeline and with their cheating....I mean player development ways Stro would likely take a huge step forward.

 

But yeah I'd hold on to Stro at this rate if teams view him as a buy low option.

[Krylian]

I could see the Astros trading for Stroman. Fits their timeline and with their cheating....I mean player development ways Stro would likely take a huge step forward.

 

But yeah I'd hold on to Stro at this rate if teams view him as a buy low option.

 

Throw Conine into the deal too while you're at it.

[TheHurl]

lol.... Guaranteed

 

l have a tendency to overuse that word. I can think of three other instances

1. Tim Collins will never be a closer

2. Travis Snider will win multiple MVP's

3. and last week I think I used it for James Paxton will never had a 2.5 win season for the Yankees.

[Jimcanuck]

l have a tendency to overuse that word. I can think of three other instances

1. Tim Collins will never be a closer

2. Travis Snider will win multiple MVP's

3. and last week I think I used it for James Paxton will never had a 2.5 win season for the Yankees.

 

You must be a salesman IRL

[P2F]

Russell Martin Available On Trade Market

 

 

Blue Jays catcher Russell Martin is generating some degree of interest on the trade market, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (allTwitterlinks). The Jays are willing to pay a “significant” portion of the final $20MM on Martin’s contract, per Passan, and have already discussed him with other clubs.

 

He’ll make $20MM in the final season of a backloaded five-year, $82MM contract next season, and while his 15.9 percent walk rate was sensational, his overall .194/.338/.325 batting line leaves plenty to be desired. Martin was undoubtedly harmed by a .234 average on balls in play, but that’s perhaps not as unlucky as some might think at first glance.

While that .234 mark is well south of his career .283 BABIP, Martin saw his line-drive rate drop by nearly 10 percent this past season — from 23.7 percent in 2017 to 14 percent in 2018. He also posted a career-worst 19.4 percent infield-fly rate and hit the ball on the ground at a career-high 51.2 percent clip. For a 35-year-old catcher whose once-surprising speed has largely evaporated, that’s not a great trend.

Defensively, Martin’s once-excellent caught-stealing rate has waned over the past three seasons (22 percent in 2018 — six percent below the league average), but Baseball Prospectus still grades him as a premium framer and blocker.

 

As for demand, there’s no shortage of contenders or hopeful contenders who could use upgrades. The Dodgers, Astros, Rockies, Angels, Twins, Red Sox, Mets, Brewers and Phillies could all conceivably explore the market, as could a number of teams that are either in the midst of a rebuild or retooling process (e.g. Mariners, Tigers).

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/mlb-trade-rumors-francisco-cervelli-russell-martin-pirates-blue-jays.html

[BTS]

Russell Martin Available On Trade Market

 

 

Blue Jays catcher Russell Martin is generating some degree of interest on the trade market, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (allTwitterlinks). The Jays are willing to pay a “significant” portion of the final $20MM on Martin’s contract, per Passan, and have already discussed him with other clubs.

 

He’ll make $20MM in the final season of a backloaded five-year, $82MM contract next season, and while his 15.9 percent walk rate was sensational, his overall .194/.338/.325 batting line leaves plenty to be desired. Martin was undoubtedly harmed by a .234 average on balls in play, but that’s perhaps not as unlucky as some might think at first glance.

While that .234 mark is well south of his career .283 BABIP, Martin saw his line-drive rate drop by nearly 10 percent this past season — from 23.7 percent in 2017 to 14 percent in 2018. He also posted a career-worst 19.4 percent infield-fly rate and hit the ball on the ground at a career-high 51.2 percent clip. For a 35-year-old catcher whose once-surprising speed has largely evaporated, that’s not a great trend.

Defensively, Martin’s once-excellent caught-stealing rate has waned over the past three seasons (22 percent in 2018 — six percent below the league average), but Baseball Prospectus still grades him as a premium framer and blocker.

 

As for demand, there’s no shortage of contenders or hopeful contenders who could use upgrades. The Dodgers, Astros, Rockies, Angels, Twins, Red Sox, Mets, Brewers and Phillies could all conceivably explore the market, as could a number of teams that are either in the midst of a rebuild or retooling process (e.g. Mariners, Tigers).

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/mlb-trade-rumors-francisco-cervelli-russell-martin-pirates-blue-jays.html

 

Nice. With Suzuki getting 5M a year and f***ing Jeff Mathis getting 3+, you have to think Martin has at least some trade value if the Jays eat 15+M of his deal.

[jaysguy44]

What type of realistic return could we even get for Martin?

[glory]

What type of realistic return could we even get for Martin?

 

Shatkins has been targeting ready or near ready prospects lately. I’d guess maybe a C+/B- prospect who another team has no room for that can be a realistic call up in 2019. Maybe a fringe five guy.

[The Iceman]

Every trade Shitkins make it is just for a guy competing for the 25th spot on the roster. GEEZ, lots of depth. Really deep s*** actually. How about trading some of these depth guys 2 for 1 for a mid roster player for a change. Our roster is so interchangable that we can afford to lose any player that starts the season with the team and replace him with an equally BLAH player.

[KevinGregg]

Every trade Shitkins make it is just for a guy competing for the 25th spot on the roster. GEEZ, lots of depth. Really deep s*** actually. How about trading some of these depth guys 2 for 1 for a mid roster player for a change. Our roster is so interchangable that we can afford to lose any player that starts the season with the team and replace him with an equally BLAH player.

 

You mean like when they got Grichuk for Greene and Leone?

[BTS]

Every trade Shitkins make it is just for a guy competing for the 25th spot on the roster. GEEZ, lots of depth. Really deep s*** actually. How about trading some of these depth guys 2 for 1 for a mid roster player for a change. Our roster is so interchangable that we can afford to lose any player that starts the season with the team and replace him with an equally BLAH player.

 

I think it’s pretty clear that the plan is to set a foundation of a deep farm and robust 40-man, and then supplement with high end talent when the team is ready to compete. Putting the cart before the horse is a good way to open up a 2-3 year contention window.

[The Iceman]

You mean like when they got Grichuk for Greene and Leone?

 

Sorry, I meant every trade they made once the season started.

And YES, there is the 2 for 1 I. Exactly what I was talking about. Give up 2 guys for a mid roster and useful player...PERFECT

[Laika]

Every trade Shitkins make it is just for a guy competing for the 25th spot on the roster. GEEZ, lots of depth. Really deep s*** actually. How about trading some of these depth guys 2 for 1 for a mid roster player for a change. Our roster is so interchangable that we can afford to lose any player that starts the season with the team and replace him with an equally BLAH player.

 

These are the type of no-brainer trades that nearly every GM and their mother (and every dynasty baseball owner) want to pull off. It's harder than you think because it's hard to find a trade partner who wants to do the other side of it.

[Carlos Danger]

Russell Martin Available On Trade Market

 

 

Blue Jays catcher Russell Martin is generating some degree of interest on the trade market, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (allTwitterlinks). The Jays are willing to pay a “significant” portion of the final $20MM on Martin’s contract, per Passan, and have already discussed him with other clubs.

 

He’ll make $20MM in the final season of a backloaded five-year, $82MM contract next season, and while his 15.9 percent walk rate was sensational, his overall .194/.338/.325 batting line leaves plenty to be desired. Martin was undoubtedly harmed by a .234 average on balls in play, but that’s perhaps not as unlucky as some might think at first glance.

While that .234 mark is well south of his career .283 BABIP, Martin saw his line-drive rate drop by nearly 10 percent this past season — from 23.7 percent in 2017 to 14 percent in 2018. He also posted a career-worst 19.4 percent infield-fly rate and hit the ball on the ground at a career-high 51.2 percent clip. For a 35-year-old catcher whose once-surprising speed has largely evaporated, that’s not a great trend.

Defensively, Martin’s once-excellent caught-stealing rate has waned over the past three seasons (22 percent in 2018 — six percent below the league average), but Baseball Prospectus still grades him as a premium framer and blocker.

 

As for demand, there’s no shortage of contenders or hopeful contenders who could use upgrades. The Dodgers, Astros, Rockies, Angels, Twins, Red Sox, Mets, Brewers and Phillies could all conceivably explore the market, as could a number of teams that are either in the midst of a rebuild or retooling process (e.g. Mariners, Tigers).

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/11/mlb-trade-rumors-francisco-cervelli-russell-martin-pirates-blue-jays.html

 

Please, please trade Martin, and Morales while you are at it, pretty please!!!

[GreekFatAss]

Please, please trade Martin, and Morales while you are at it, pretty please!!!

 

Curious what we can get if we paid all of Martins contract, unfortunately I think we are stuck with Morales even if we paid the contract.

[polar bear]

Please, please trade Martin, and Morales while you are at it, pretty please!!!

 

You forgot Tulo.