Donaldson Aug 31 Trade Thread

[glory]

 

Damn, they offered Flaherty for one year of JD? f***. I love Shatkins but damn.

[John_Havok]

Damn, they offered Flaherty for one year of JD? f***. I love Shatkins but damn.

 

Can't imagine the backlash they would have faced from the casuals for trading JD and giving up on the season before it even started. The salt would have filled the RC

[Jonn]

I f***ing knew it.... Jesus Christ did they royally f*** that up.

[Krylian]

Can't imagine the backlash they would have faced from the casuals for trading JD and giving up on the season before it even started. The salt would have filled the RC

 

Yup. That's what's important. As long as the casuals are happy. Good move, Shatkins

[Spanky__99]

Yup. That's what's important. As long as the casuals are happy. Good move, Shatkins

 

That would've been about Rogers, no? Shapiro said as much in an interview.

[5ToolPhenom]

Can't imagine the backlash they would have faced from the casuals for trading JD and giving up on the season before it even started. The salt would have filled the RC

 

I'm sure they would've got over it in a hurry with Flaherty mowing down the league.

[John_Havok]

Yup. That's what's important. As long as the casuals are happy. Good move, Shatkins

 

When did I say they made the decision with casuals in mind? My point is casuals are pissed no matter what decision this FO makes regardless of it's merit.

[TheHurl]

We all know that no GM is going to trade their star player coming off a season where you lead the AL in attendance. You'd have to get blown away.

 

I'd like to see 2017 off season responses from the same people about this trade offer.

[Dick_Pole]

 

I have my doubts over the truthfulness of this.

 

Unprompted, a Jays official comes out to say basically "yeah, we're stupid" at the worst possible time in the Donaldson saga when the logical thing would be to not even bring it up. Sounds more like trying to sow the seeds of discontent here.

[Krylian]

When did I say they made the decision with casuals in mind? My point is casuals are pissed no matter what decision this FO makes regardless of it's merit.

 

It was sarcasm

[Jimcanuck]

Maybe it was Flaherty/Grichuk for JD

 

It's a reasonable deal

 

Jays turn it down but counter with Leone and Greene for Grichuk

[glory]

We all know that no GM is going to trade their star player coming off a season where you lead the AL in attendance. You'd have to get blown away.

 

I'd like to see 2017 off season responses from the same people about this trade offer.

 

Agreed. I think Shapiro makes the deal if he had a choice, but 2 straight ALCS appearances followed by 3 million+ attendance in '17, and I doubt he had the option of doing it.

 

Still stings, though. It would probably sting less had JD stayed healthy and been traded for a real return in July, but hindsight can be a bitch some times.

[saskjayfan]

Agreed. I think Shapiro makes the deal if he had a choice, but 2 straight ALCS appearances followed by 3 million+ attendance in '17, and I doubt he had the option of doing it.

 

Still stings, though. It would probably sting less had JD stayed healthy and been traded for a real return in July, but hindsight can be a bitch some times.

 

Why is out of the realm of possibility that it was actually Shapiro's decision not to trade Donaldson and not Rogers decision? Shapiro seems to get a pass on everything. We don't have a single owner endeared to winning. We have an owner endeared to money. Shapiro, if he did indeed want to trade Donaldson in the off season, couldn't convince ownership the long term success of the team would result in more revenue than keeping Donaldson and having a team that if all went right would have likely been on the outside looking in as far as the playoffs go. Does Shapiro really get a pass on everything?

[BTS]

We all know that no GM is going to trade their star player coming off a season where you lead the AL in attendance. You'd have to get blown away.

 

I'd like to see 2017 off season responses from the same people about this trade offer.

 

I remember some of the same people complaining now losing their s*** when people posted that we’d likely get a non-Reyes pitching prospect and not much else. Shatkins would have been crucified in the offseason for trading Donaldson for Flaherty and a 2nd lesser piece.

[glory]

Why is out of the realm of possibility that it was actually Shapiro's decision not to trade Donaldson and not Rogers decision? Shapiro seems to get a pass on everything. We don't have a single owner endeared to winning. We have an owner endeared to money. Shapiro, if he did indeed want to trade Donaldson in the off season, couldn't convince ownership the long term success of the team would result in more revenue than keeping Donaldson and having a team that if all went right would have likely been on the outside looking in as far as the playoffs go. Does Shapiro really get a pass on everything?

 

Because he has a history in Cleveland of doing the exact opposite of what he did in 2018.

 

Shapiro has made quotes before about win curves and things like that. I highly doubt it was his idea to keep this team together in 2018. It's the reason why he only brought players in short term. Those vets are easy to flip at the deadline and won't hurt financial flexibility for down the road. 2018 was essentially a shot in the dark at a 2nd wild card and if all that failed then it would be easy to change direction. It looks bad now because JD got hurt and Osuna beat his girl. It could have looked better if those two things didn't happen.

 

I could see both sides of the argument really. Rogers doesn't give a s*** about baseball, so all they see is three straight high attendance years and do not want the optics nightmare of having to sell tickets after trading their best player(s). If I was running a business and had a small segment of that business being something that I didn't particularly care about, I'd only look at revenue/profit too. That's why I hate Rogers owning this team, but even then, it could be a lot worse.

[saskjayfan]

Because he has a history in Cleveland of doing the exact opposite of what he did in 2018.

 

Shapiro has made quotes before about win curves and things like that. I highly doubt it was his idea to keep this team together in 2018. It's the reason why he only brought players in short term. Those vets are easy to flip at the deadline and won't hurt financial flexibility for down the road. 2018 was essentially a shot in the dark at a 2nd wild card and if all that failed then it would be easy to change direction. It looks bad now because JD got hurt and Osuna beat his girl. It could have looked better if those two things didn't happen.

 

I could see both sides of the argument really. Rogers doesn't give a s*** about baseball, so all they see is three straight high attendance years and do not want the optics nightmare of having to sell tickets after trading their best player(s). If I was running a business and had a small segment of that business being something that I didn't particularly care about, I'd only look at revenue/profit too. That's why I hate Rogers owning this team, but even then, it could be a lot worse.

 

You've basically made my point. Rogers would never sacrifice long term revenue for a short term payoff. All Shapiro had to do was say, let's trade Donaldson and we'll take a hit at the box, but in a couple years we will make a lot of money at the box. If we don't trade Donaldson we might higher revenues this year, but we might have more difficulties competing in the future.

[glory]

You've basically made my point. Rogers would never sacrifice long term revenue for a short term payoff. All Shapiro had to do was say, let's trade Donaldson and we'll take a hit at the box, but in a couple years we will make a lot of money at the box. If we don't trade Donaldson we might higher revenues this year, but we might have more difficulties competing in the future.

 

How many businesses who are raking in dough over a three year stretch would agree to take a short term financial hit with no guarantee that it would have any long term payoff?

[Boxcar]

Are we also all pretending that everyone knew Flaherty would have a season anywhere near this good? Sure, he always had potential but he turned it up to 11 in 2018. Easy to moan about a trade not happening when everything goes right for the player that was turned down.

 

In fact, if we'd traded JD for a package of 2 guys headlined by Flaherty prior to this season, I'd almost be willing to bet me knickers that the same people whining in this thread would be whining about that trade.

 

There's no winning with some people.

[Bobthe4th]

I think it’s fair to assume that Shatkins didn’t think it was a fair deal for JD at the time. They assumed that he can be traded at the deadline for a similar if not better deal (like Machado was).

 

Yeah it looks bad now Flaherty has broken out, and JD got injured, but how high was Flaherty on anyone’s list preseason? He looked like possibly a mid rotation starter. Again, would have been a good return now he’s broken out, but not exactly a can’t miss no brainer deal at the time.

[glory]

Yeah this deal looks worse in hindsight. I wanted Reyes at the time, but clearly Stl wasn't giving him up, and he's hurt again. I don't know if I would have been thrilled with Flaherty as the main piece at the time (I hate pitching prospects in general and Reyes is proving why) but in hindsight with Flaherty turning into something and Merryweather being what we ended up getting back, it def looks worse.

[Krylian]

I think it’s fair to assume that Shatkins didn’t think it was a fair deal for JD at the time. They assumed that he can be traded at the deadline for a similar if not better deal (like Machado was).

 

Yeah it looks bad now Flaherty has broken out, and JD got injured, but how high was Flaherty on anyone’s list preseason? He looked like possibly a mid rotation starter. Again, would have been a good return now he’s broken out, but not exactly a can’t miss no brainer deal at the time.

 

I believe that it's always better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. Now, I get it...if Rogers was meddling, as they have done before, then Team Shat really didn't have much of an opportunity to move JD, or anyone else than maybe was on the list. However, he's the face of the organization. So when things work out poorly...like they have in this instance...he's the one that's going to be held accountable, rightly or wrongly.

[BTS]

Are we also all pretending that everyone knew Flaherty would have a season anywhere near this good? Sure, he always had potential but he turned it up to 11 in 2018. Easy to moan about a trade not happening when everything goes right for the player that was turned down.

 

In fact, if we'd traded JD for a package of 2 guys headlined by Flaherty prior to this season, I'd almost be willing to bet me knickers that the same people whining in this thread would be whining about that trade.

 

There's no winning with some people.

 

It would have been absurd to trade Donaldson for Flaherty and like Gomber or something in the offseason.

[Bobthe4th]

I believe that it's always better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. Now, I get it...if Rogers was meddling, as they have done before, then Team Shat really didn't have much of an opportunity to move JD, or anyone else than maybe was on the list. However, he's the face of the organization. So when things work out poorly...like they have in this instance...he's the one that's going to be held accountable, rightly or wrongly.

 

Yeah true.

 

FWIW I was wanting to trade JD if he didn't sign an extension last offseason, but would I have pulled the trigger on a Flaherty trade? That's a tough one, maybe if the 2nd piece was Grichuk instead of a lottery ticket.

 

Who's to say Merryweather doesn't end up having a better career than Flaherty anyway, Atkins seems to like him from his quotes on "impacting the 25 man next year".

[Pendleton]

Are we also all pretending that everyone knew Flaherty would have a season anywhere near this good? Sure, he always had potential but he turned it up to 11 in 2018. Easy to moan about a trade not happening when everything goes right for the player that was turned down.

 

In fact, if we'd traded JD for a package of 2 guys headlined by Flaherty prior to this season, I'd almost be willing to bet me knickers that the same people whining in this thread would be whining about that trade.

 

There's no winning with some people.

 

I had Flaherty pegged as a stud so I'm allowed to be as remorseful as I want over this hypothetical scenario.

[bzapple]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. This is classic freaking out over hindsight, Blue jays message board specialty.

[glory]

Yeah true.

 

FWIW I was wanting to trade JD if he didn't sign an extension last offseason, but would I have pulled the trigger on a Flaherty trade? That's a tough one, maybe if the 2nd piece was Grichuk instead of a lottery ticket.

 

Who's to say Merryweather doesn't end up having a better career than Flaherty anyway, Atkins seems to like him from his quotes on "impacting the 25 man next year".

 

Well hindsight works both ways. If Merryweather ends up being really good then the same reaction to losing out on Flaherty should be used to praise Shatkins for getting Merryweather instead.

 

At the time reasoning should be used in most cases as we don’t have the benefit of hindsight at the time something happens. Losing out on Flaherty hurts a lot more now that we see what he has become.

[Bobthe4th]

Well hindsight works both ways. If Merryweather ends up being really good then the same reaction to losing out on Flaherty should be used to praise Shatkins for getting Merryweather instead.

 

At the time reasoning should be used in most cases as we don’t have the benefit of hindsight at the time something happens. Losing out on Flaherty hurts a lot more now that we see what he has become.

 

Yeah exactly.

[Omar]

I know we had to move on but this kinda hurts...

 

EE and JD back to back jacks!

 

[Orgfiller]

I know we had to move on but this kinda hurts...

 

EE and JD back to back jacks!

 

 

Don't forget Blue Jays legend Matt Boyd serving them up.

[KevinGregg]

I know we had to move on but this kinda hurts...

 

EE and JD back to back jacks!

 

 

I honestly only feel happiness. I hope they win it all this year.