Jays Trade for Yangervis Solarte

[GeorgiaPeach]

It's possible the Morales contract could be worse than any contract AA has signed or acquired. Just off the top of my head but I think it could be close (Obvious running mate is Tulo). I know for sure that the notion that AA was reckless with money is unfounded.

 

That wasn't the notion.

 

The notion was the team going in to 2015 & 2016 was looking real good, with no farm.

 

So beyond 2016 fans can't be like "f*** the FO because the Yankees traded scraps for Stanton and our best move is trading for Solarte."

 

The team was close to maxed out for big additions last year. And trading any prospects worthwhile for Stanton or some other mind altering player puts us back to not having a farm again.

[GeorgiaPeach]

The thing is this window wasn't created by AA necessarily. It was created by the enormous surplus value we were enjoying from players currently in their prime. We had 3 options with the Jose/EE/JD core: Stand pat, Push to win or trade those core pieces.

 

I'm guessing no one is suggesting we should have dealt them. That leaves stand pat (and make non-impact moves) or go for it. I think if David Price pitches just a bit better, we win a WS. Obviously conjecture but that's usually how all these moves are evaluated anyways.

 

Also Tulo's decline is possibly one of the steepest in history. He was borderline MVP material in his prime. Questions about moving from COL but you would have thought he'd easily be worth 20M a year, year after year. If we just get 3/4ths of a Tulo, maybe we win a WS.

 

I'm not denying any of this.

 

But when people come here and complain that the FO didn't trade for Stanton what is the FO supposed to do to appease meatheads like that?

[Spanky99]

The window Alex created was 2 years tops and after that a major overhaul was needed and we had a very bad farm. So 2015 & 2016 happened with playoff berths and that was it for me. I didn't expect the 2017 Jays to be anything. And that's why I also included 2017 in the mix along with this year and likely next. Only optimistic fans were fooling themselves thinking the Jays had a chance last year.

 

Looking at 2018 the Yankees 25 man blows our doors off. They have a superior farm, more financial resources, you want me to continue?

 

The Jays were very close to the oldest team in baseball in 2017 if not the oldest. Bautista was 37 last year, Morales, Martin, Pearce 34, Tulo & Donaldson early 30's, Estrada 33. Both Tulo & Martin broken and on contracts close to or eclipsing 20m. So we have a couple years of trying to stay afloat and maybe be a fringe WC hopeful because of the divide between the elite teams in the AL and s*** teams.

 

And tbh the Yankees have the money to make mistakes and run the way they ran for a couple years. The Jays can't be anchored down to dumb contracts, the margin for error is razor thin for the Jays. Especially with some of the powerhouse organizations like the Dodgers, Yanks, Houston, Cubs, Cards.

 

More than 2 years if it panned out earlier, but yes, he f***ed up per se we had 2 CS series due to Alex, anything goes different in them series, we're playing for a WS. I can't fault the man for trying, we were close. It's not fair, he came close... period. There will be more times, under our management, no doubt.

[Spanky99]

Bonus point: Look how f***ed we are now by not only the AL giants but Dodgers/Cubs. Would anyone go back in time and take our shot again from 2-3 years ago? 100% everyone would. The biggest team in our way was the f***ing Royals.

 

Bonus point 2: Vlad Jr.

 

It's possible AA didn't go all-in enough in retrospect.

 

Yeah, possibly.

[Spanky99]

I don't care what many of you think, we're a WC threat like other clubs, save for injuries, we're not as bad as you folks entail. It's depressing folk think otherwise. The industry call us a contender, why can't you? AS OF NOW... of course.

 

Edit: What exactly is wrong with being a contender for a PO position?

[Terminator]

I don't care what many of you think, we're a WC threat like other clubs, save for injuries, we're not as bad as you folks entail. It's depressing folk think otherwise. The industry call us a contender, why can't you? AS OF KNOW... of course.

 

This team isn't bad at all and is definitely a WC contender. Solarte and Diaz improved the team 3 to 4 wins already. We've still got 20 mil or so left to spend. Need an OF and a pitcher.

[GeorgiaPeach]

More than 2 years if it panned out earlier, but yes, he f***ed up per se we had 2 CS series due to Alex, anything goes different in them series, we're playing for a WS. I can't fault the man for trying, we were close. It's not fair, he came close... period. There will be more times, under our management, no doubt.

 

You guys are missing my point.

 

Alex did what he did. It's great that he got the Jays to the playoffs.

 

But for fans to slag the FO now or last year when the writing was on the wall of mediocrity setting in is just plain dumb. The prospects we could've traded for Stanton would've left us barren, worst in baseball maybe with a team littered with guys in their early to mid 30's. So what happens in a couple years with no farm, and Stanton flanked by mediocre pick ups? More whining.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't care what many of you think, we're a WC threat like other clubs, save for injuries, we're not as bad as you folks entail. It's depressing folk think otherwise. The industry call us a contender, why can't you? AS OF NOW... of course.

 

Edit: What exactly is wrong with being a contender for a PO position?

 

We're a WC team due to the mediocrity of the rest of the AL. We're closer on paper talent wise to the bad teams in the AL than we are to the best teams. That's not saying much.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Your mistake is listening to those fans.

 

I listen to them for entertainment purposes.

[Spanky99]

You guys are missing my point.

 

Alex did what he did. It's great that he got the Jays to the playoffs.

 

But for fans to slag the FO now or last year when the writing was on the wall of mediocrity setting in is just plain dumb. The prospects we could've traded for Stanton would've left us barren, worst in baseball maybe with a team littered with guys in their early to mid 30's. So what happens in a couple years with no farm, and Stanton flanked by mediocre pick ups? More whining.

 

That flies over casuals head, buddy. You're talking the uneducated. Who cares, our new FO will stop the whine, eventually.

[Spanky99]

We're a WC team due to the mediocrity of the rest of the AL. We're closer on paper talent wise to the bad teams in the AL than we are to the best teams. That's not saying much.

 

You don't think our FO is targeting this? Time and place, buddy.

[Spanky99]

What the Birds do moving forward, will explain a lot. It's that simple.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You don't think our FO is targeting this? Time and place, buddy.

 

Definitely headed in the right direction. And with Shapiro's track record on display in Cleveland I have hope.

[glory]

What hurt the team last season, in addition to injuries and underperforming, was lack of depth.

 

Diaz and Solarte are now the back up infielders instead of Goins and Barney. Hernandez (if he doesn't win a spot) and Alford will be in AAA for outfield depth instead of Coghlan, DSJ, etc. Jansen and McGuire both on the 40 man and could serve as depth instead of Maile and the platter of crap the Jays rolled out at back up catcher last year. The Jays appear to be covered to where they won't be rolling out below replacement dog s*** if someone gets hurt, and that's going to be a big step forward.

 

Of course the rotation could still use some work. Starting Biagini in AAA would be a good move to keep him stretched out and ready. The Buffalo rotation could be Biagini, Borucki, Upper Deck, Guerrieri, and maybe Pannone. I mean it's not great, but the Jays had Latos, Tepesch, Lawrence, Rowley, and Valdez start games for them last year. That's about as bad as you can get.

 

I think they are a 2nd wild card possibility. Not on the level of the top 4 teams in the AL, but could realistically fight with the Angels, M's, Rangers, O's, Twins, etc, for the 2nd wild card.

[Krylian]

I don't care what many of you think, we're a WC threat like other clubs, save for injuries, we're not as bad as you folks entail. It's depressing folk think otherwise. The industry call us a contender, why can't you? AS OF NOW... of course.

 

Edit: What exactly is wrong with being a contender for a PO position?

 

They're not a good team.

[saskjayfan]

You guys are missing my point.

 

Alex did what he did. It's great that he got the Jays to the playoffs.

 

But for fans to slag the FO now or last year when the writing was on the wall of mediocrity setting in is just plain dumb. The prospects we could've traded for Stanton would've left us barren, worst in baseball maybe with a team littered with guys in their early to mid 30's. So what happens in a couple years with no farm, and Stanton flanked by mediocre pick ups? More whining.

 

The Yankees didn't send top prospects for Stanton. We would have hardly have been left barren. We just had to make the financial commitment. The financial commitment is quite rightly a scary one and I'm not saying we should have traded for him. He wouldn't have come here anyways.

 

The Jays weren't set up for mediocrity. We should't have signed Morales, but that didn't kill us. You can't Tulo, Sanchez and Travis for almost the entire season, combined with Happ, Donaldson, Martin, Pearce missing time. You then factor in Jose had the worst year of his career by a huge margin and the same for Tulo, for the time he played, and a lot went wrong. I don't blame management for the Bautista signing. No one would have predicted that drop off. You can't blame management for the amount of significant injuries or the just bad start they had. Everyone pressed early and didn't play close to the level they were capable of. It didn't take much to make the post season. Minnesota won 85 games.

 

There's no reason to blame new management or old management for last year. There was a lot of bad luck involved.

 

The Jays can and should compete for a wild card spot. We don't need to top the Yankees in the standings. We've improved our team with a couple trades already. Anyone in right should be better than Jose was last year. Our rotation should be better this year. Our minor league system has a lot more depth in the upper minors now with guys advancing last year.

[Jonn]

I don't care what many of you think, we're a WC threat like other clubs, save for injuries, we're not as bad as you folks entail. It's depressing folk think otherwise. The industry call us a contender, why can't you? AS OF NOW... of course.

 

Edit: What exactly is wrong with being a contender for a PO position?

 

I disagree Spanky. I think we will pitch well and the bullpen will be solid. But as is this team will continue to struggle to score runs without an impact bat. This team doesn't get on base enough. We have way to many low on base guys in our lineup.

[Bobthe4th]

This season is important as it determines whether a rebuild happens or not.

 

For me it’s all about whether some prospects can establish themselves, and ensuring we have a strong core for Bo and Vlad to join. A wildcard would be a bonus for this year, but not a necessity IMO.

 

Depending on whether the team is sold or not, we could be in a great position to add one or two expensive free agents from the 2019 gold mine free agency to quickly be a top club again. Rogers has shown in the last few years that the money is there to improve the team if competing is a realistic goal.

 

However, if people like Hernandez, Alford and Gurriel have bad years, and people like Travis, Sanchez, Stroman and Osuna miss significant time with injuries, we have a losing season and end up in a full rebuild.

[Krylian]

This season is important as it determines whether a rebuild happens or not.

 

For me it’s all about whether some prospects can establish themselves, and ensuring we have a strong core for Bo and Vlad to join. A wildcard would be a bonus for this year, but not a necessity IMO.

 

Depending on whether the team is sold or not, we could be in a great position to add one or two expensive free agents from the 2019 gold mine free agency to quickly be a top club again. Rogers has shown in the last few years that the money is there to improve the team if competing is a realistic goal.

 

However, if people like Hernandez, Alford and Gurriel have bad years, and people like Travis, Sanchez, Stroman and Osuna miss significant time with injuries, we have a losing season and end up in a full rebuild.

 

I guess I differ in that I think it's clear that a rebuild is already necessary.

 

But if it takes one more season to be really sure then so be it.

[Bobthe4th]

I guess I differ in that I think it's clear that a rebuild is already necessary.

 

But if it takes one more season to be really sure then so be it.

 

Yeah, I'm optimistic that at least a few prospects will make it. If this season is OK and Vlad and Bo are ready at some point in 2019 we could be very good again in less than 2 years with sensible additions.

 

I can't see any way that happens if we started a rebuild now, and if a rebuild starts in 6-12 months, I don't really think it'll significantly delay the length of a rebuild. Although some players will be worth less in trades (noticeably JD) I think it's worth the risk waiting rather than starting a rebuild right now when there is still a reasonable chance it will be unnecessary.

[Brownie19]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yangervis-solarte-and-the-blue-jays-attempt-to-thread-the-needle/

 

breakdown on the trade here.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/padres-acquire-lottery-ticket-edward-olivares/

 

Article on Olivares here.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Brownie19