Braves hire Alex Anthopoulos as GM

[Spanky99]

I don’t even really consider Ross Atkins a real person.

 

lol

[Bobthe4th]

While Jays prospect fandom is high, where are our Jose Altuve, Judge, Lindor, Correia prospects? Boston and New York usually draft AFTER us ans tjey seemingly produce far more high level studs ocer tje last 15 years than us. Sure Pillar is nice if he were batting ninth. And sure we have some pitchers but it sure seems like we produce mostly mediocrity

 

Altuve = international free agent

Judge = number 32 pick

Lindor = number 8 pick

Correa = number 1 pick

 

So the only one of your examples that we could have drafted was Judge, who wasn't picked by any MLB team (including the Yankees) with their first pick.

 

Yankees and Red Sox model is normally to spend big on MLB talent, international free agents, and signing bonuses for draftees. Astros model was tank for multiple seasons, invest heavily in international free agents, then load up on veterans to add to the team.

 

The Jays don't have the budget of the Red Sox and Yankees, and don't have a bad enough farm or MLB squad to make tanking inevitable.

[Captain Adama]

People are over blowing how bad the farm system was when Shapiro took over. There wasn't much depth in the upper levels (because of the trades) but it wasn't lacking talent..

 

Vlad Jr

Alford

Tellez

Pentecost

SRF

Borucki

Greene

 

Were all here when AA left. Its not like it was the Angels or Tigers System. The biggest improvement is the development system Shapiro has installed, not the actual players which no one seems to acknowledge.

 

Well... Greene, Tellez and Foley probably suck.

[Bobthe4th]

Before AA made those deadline moves that reinvigorated baseball in Canada, the Jays were missing the playoffs and Shapiro had been offered the job to being a full rebuild.

 

We wouldn't have the bat flip or Edwin's walk off. We would be a couple of years into a 90-100 losses a season tank, with interest and budget at an all time low.

 

AA was in a unique situation where he needed to make the playoffs to save his job, and what he did was risky. However, tanking is also risky - it's not a guarantee of future success.

 

Many here will say they would prefer the risk of tanking to the risk of going for it, but IMO it was worth it in that particular situation.

 

We now have a handful of decent prospects, and quite a few good to very good MLB players. I think that the current strategy of relatively conservative moves suits the current situation with 2 very highly regarded prospects a year or 2 away, and a number of MLB ready prospects yet to establish themselves.

 

If everything goes wrong in the next couple of years we can then tank, and trade Sanchez, Stroman, and Osuna for a kickstart to the farm.

[Jimcanuck]

Before AA made those deadline moves that reinvigorated baseball in Canada, the Jays were missing the playoffs and Shapiro had been offered the job to being a full rebuild.

 

We wouldn't have the bat flip or Edwin's walk off. We would be a couple of years into a 90-100 losses a season tank, with interest and budget at an all time low.

 

AA was in a unique situation where he needed to make the playoffs to save his job, and what he did was risky. However, tanking is also risky - it's not a guarantee of future success.

 

Many here will say they would prefer the risk of tanking to the risk of going for it, but IMO it was worth it in that particular situation.

 

We now have a handful of decent prospects, and quite a few good to very good MLB players. I think that the current strategy of relatively conservative moves suits the current situation with 2 very highly regarded prospects a year or 2 away, and a number of MLB ready prospects yet to establish themselves.

 

If everything goes wrong in the next couple of years we can then tank, and trade Sanchez, Stroman, and Osuna for a kickstart to the farm.

 

Who?

[Olerud363]

Alford, who looks like he'll be a fringe starter if we're lucky, and a bunch of crap.

Generous. I count 5.

 

Alford is the biggest wild card you could find in terms of prospects. His ceiling is pretty high. Ceiling is best possible outcome in best seasons. I would say Bo has the highest ceiling, followed closely by Vlad and Alford is not that far behind. He also has a much greater chance of being nothing, or being injured. He's a wild card because of late start and injuries.

 

Vlad probably has the best chances of reaching his ceiling. Ceiling is the best a prospect could do, based on what the very best outcomes for similar prospects have been.

 

Before I get flamed, I'm not saying Bo is going to be Mike Trout. His Ceiling is Mike Trout, because he plays a key defensive position, potentially a plus base runner and is putting up the best hitting numbers in the minors. If you do that, you have a high ceiling.. .doesn't mean he'll reach it. He probably has a higher ceiling then Vlad, because if everything goes absolute right, he can put up 3 WAR in defense and baserunning, while a good outcome for Vlad is to be neutral in defense and baserunning.

 

Bo - best similar prospect is Mike Trout

Vlad - best similar prospect is Albert Pujuls

Alford - best similar prospect is Lorenzo Cain

 

None of these are likely to reach their ceilings. No prospect is.

 

Bo has the highest ceiling, because there is a chance he could contribute defensively at second or third, or even short. Vlad's ceiling is the Albert Pujols path, best hitter in baseball, and good enough at first, or passable at third so he's neutral, or only slightly negative defensively. Alford's ceiling is Lorenzo Cain kind of guy.

[Spanky99]

I'm glad AA has another shot at the GM role, it'll be interesting to follow his tenure. Many people thought he wouldn't be in this role again when he stepped away from Toronto, and here we are...

[Spanky99]

Steve Phillips seems to think Donaldson and Toronto are a fit with the Braves??? I know some of you guys joked about this, but the timeline/fit makes zero sense, iff AA did that, I think I'd piss myself laughing!

 

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/could-anthopoulos-braves-target-josh-donaldson~1259647

[BTS]

Steve Phillips seems to think Donaldson and Toronto are a fit with the Braves??? I know some of you guys joked about this, but the timeline/fit makes zero sense, iff AA did that, I think I'd piss myself laughing!

 

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/could-anthopoulos-braves-target-josh-donaldson~1259647

 

There's no obvious fit there IMO. The only prospect they have that would interest me in a Donaldson deal is Acuna, and Acuna is too much for one year of Donaldson.

[glory]

The best fit for JD is probably the Cardinals. They seem really determined to make a trade, and have excess where the Jays need immediate help (outfield). Unless the Braves want to sell tickets with the mirage of competing, I don't see ATL doing it. Someone like Stanton would make more sense for them, especially since Alex likes to pay players big money when they are no longer elite players.

[Spanky99]

There's no obvious fit there IMO. The only prospect they have that would interest me in a Donaldson deal is Acuna, and Acuna is too much for one year of Donaldson.

 

They have a lot of good young pieces other than just Acuna, but it just wouldn't make sense because of the one year, Phillips' talking out of his ass. He's a dumnass, lol.

[BTS]

They have a lot of good young pieces other than just Acuna, but it just wouldn't make sense because of the one year, Phillips' talking out of his ass. He's a dumnass, lol.

 

All of their other good young pieces are pitchers, unless you're into Swanson. I guess they also have Maitan. I think they'd have a hard time putting the best offer together.

[Spanky99]

All of their other good young pieces are pitchers, unless you're into Swanson. I guess they also have Maitan. I think they'd have a hard time putting the best offer together.

 

Maitan and Soroka... Nah, as glory mentioned the only MLB team that's a fit if the Jays would move him, is the True Cards!

[P2F]

There's no obvious fit there IMO. The only prospect they have that would interest me in a Donaldson deal is Acuna, and Acuna is too much for one year of Donaldson.

 

They have a lot of good young pieces other than just Acuna, but it just wouldn't make sense because of the one year, Phillips' talking out of his ass. He's a dumnass, lol.

 

All of their other good young pieces are pitchers, unless you're into Swanson. I guess they also have Maitan. I think they'd have a hard time putting the best offer together.

 

Maitan and Soroka... Nah, as glory mentioned the only MLB team that's a fit if the Jays would move him, is the True Cards!

 

Ozzie Albies exists, you guys.

[Spanky99]

Ozzie Albies exists, you guys.

 

I know, the trade would never happen, bruh, is all I'm saying.

[BTS]

Ozzie Albies exists, you guys.

 

No way he’d be on the table for JD though.

[Grant77]

No way he’d be on the table for JD though.

 

Just like how Syndergaard wasn't on the table for Dickey (or so we thought).

[Brownie19]

All of their other good young pieces are pitchers, unless you're into Swanson. I guess they also have Maitan. I think they'd have a hard time putting the best offer together.

 

You guys think Swanson becomes something?

[IBTrini]

... Btw is anyone else having trouble posing replies? Seems half the time the box to write a message isn't even there or if I try to quote reply it doesn't work.

It has to do with the new upgrades to this site. Since the membership has become more knowledgeable about stats it just adopted a new learning progression - The site is now using new analytic software whereby it culls responses based on "Prior contributions" PLUS "Thread content" you would like to respond to. It then decides whether to allow pop-up boxes to appear for the potential post from the member.Just ribbing you in case that wasn't obvious.

[keggy]

While Jays prospect fandom is high, where are our Jose Altuve, Judge, Lindor, Correia prospects? Boston and New York usually draft AFTER us ans tjey seemingly produce far more high level studs ocer tje last 15 years than us. Sure Pillar is nice if he were batting ninth. And sure we have some pitchers but it sure seems like we produce mostly mediocrity

 

 

This is not a popular opinion but AA's drafting record is among the very elite in baseball. He traded away way too much minor league talent, but this was only possible because he had the ability to draft talent in the first place.

[TheHurl]

So in order to add payroll, it was logical to do it through trade. Obviously we had a huge hole at SS because Yunel wore that eye black and had to get traded. So AA shipped him to MIA for Reyes

 

This goes with an earlier comment about how Shapiro is so much better than Beeston. Pillar was dealt with so much better without worrying about a trade...Yuli's eye slant is well forgotten in Houston. How they handled the situation is what forced their hand to throw a guy into a trade that has provided $60M in surplus value since that trade.

[Cleveland Steamer]

Interesting note from new Braves GM Alex Anthopoulos just now: When he was in Toronto, they had asked Atlanta about acquiring Freddie Freeman. #BlueJays

[G-Snarls]

Freeman would have been an awesome add

[Cleveland Steamer]

Freeman would have been an awesome add

Ya I wonder when that was...

[metafour]

This is not a popular opinion but AA's drafting record is among the very elite in baseball. He traded away way too much minor league talent, but this was only possible because he had the ability to draft talent in the first place.

 

His drafting record was elite because we had a couple year run wherein we could horde picks, thus we had drafts wherein we had 3-4-5 first round picks. Almost all of his top prospects came during that period wherein we were enjoying ~7 picks within the Top 100. After the MLB closed that loophole, our drafting record became much more average (just look at the last draft or two which were nothing special). Don't get me wrong, his high-upside approach coupled with a ton of picks produced a lot of good talent, but any time you have that many HIGH picks shouldn't you already expect that to produce results? Its not like every pick we made panned out either, as for every Syndergaard we had a Tyler Gonzalez or other uber-flop.

[keggy]

Bo - best similar prospect is Mike Trout

Vlad - best similar prospect is Albert Pujuls

Alford - best similar prospect is Lorenzo Cain

 

None of these are likely to reach their ceilings. No prospect is.

 

Bo has the highest ceiling, because there is a chance he could contribute defensively at second or third, or even short. Vlad's ceiling is the Albert Pujols path, best hitter in baseball, and good enough at first, or passable at third so he's neutral, or only slightly negative defensively. Alford's ceiling is Lorenzo Cain kind of guy.

 

A more accurate comp for absolute ceiling is probably Miguel Cabrera for Vlad, Mike Cameron for Alford, and Brandon Phillips or Howie Kendrick for Bichette.

[TheHurl]

I hate ceilings...

 

What some members of this board just read is that 140 career fWAR is coming through the systems

[Brownie19]

His drafting record was elite because we had a couple year run wherein we could horde picks, thus we had drafts wherein we had 3-4-5 first round picks. Almost all of his top prospects came during that period wherein we were enjoying ~7 picks within the Top 100. After the MLB closed that loophole, our drafting record became much more average (just look at the last draft or two which were nothing special). Don't get me wrong, his high-upside approach coupled with a ton of picks produced a lot of good talent, but any time you have that many HIGH picks shouldn't you already expect that to produce results? Its not like every pick we made panned out either, as for every Syndergaard we had a Tyler Gonzalez or other uber-flop.

 

Do AA exploits a loop hole and drafts quality players - but deserves no credit. Some of you really are insufferable.

[metafour]

Do AA exploits a loop hole and drafts quality players - but deserves no credit. Some of you really are insufferable.

 

I knew some clown would chime in with this.

 

Exploiting a loophole and drafting well are two entirely different things. The poster I was responding to outright said that his DRAFTING RECORD was "elite"; thus I was responding to that statement and ONLY THAT statement. Even the worst drafting team in the league can draft well if you give them enough picks, that doesn't make them an "elite" drafting team. It is incredibly important to differentiate between those two realities, because in our case there was a clear correlation between when we had an ass-load of picks and when we were pumping out results. When the picks went away, suddenly our success was no different than anyone else's. How can you possibly argue that our drafting was "elite" when almost every position player we drafted with a top pick flopped (Thon, Sweeney, Hawkins, DJ Davis, that OFer that was permanently injured, etc)? Yes, we hit on some pitchers, but we missed on just as many (or more) than we hit on (which should be expected, I'm not knocking them on that).

 

Overall, we were a good drafting team, but far too flawed to consider "elite". Teams like the Cardinals who enjoyed no extra picks and picked much lower than us every year yet still produced MLB contributors were better "drafting" teams than us.

[keggy]

His drafting record was elite because we had a couple year run wherein we could horde picks, thus we had drafts wherein we had 3-4-5 first round picks. Almost all of his top prospects came during that period wherein we were enjoying ~7 picks within the Top 100. After the MLB closed that loophole, our drafting record became much more average (just look at the last draft or two which were nothing special). Don't get me wrong, his high-upside approach coupled with a ton of picks produced a lot of good talent, but any time you have that many HIGH picks shouldn't you already expect that to produce results? Its not like every pick we made panned out either, as for every Syndergaard we had a Tyler Gonzalez or other uber-flop.

 

By this imperfect metric he still ranks ahead of the Cubs and just behind the Astros, two teams that tanked as hard as any team in baseball for draft position.

 

In reality, AA was only good at drafting high ceiling starters, but he was so much better at this than almost anybody else. He used this surplus to address major league needs with mixed results.