Roy Halladay dies in a Plane Crash...RIP

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know that blaming drug addicts for their addiction, no matter how it was acquired, really helps in any way. But if that's your line of thinking, Roy Halladay was performing stunts in his personal aircraft while intoxicated on a combination of chemicals that may have killed him even without the plane crash. This isn't exactly somehow better than somebody who tries out cocaine and ends up getting addicted.

 

It is to me.

 

Coke, meth etc are a personal lifestyle choice.

 

Athletes, Veterans, people who had to have various types of surgeries, were prescribed these drugs initially by a doctor or trainer, they are told they need to take them. The pharmaceutical companies are fighting tooth and nail against legalizing marijuana so they can keep pumping addictive obituate and doctors keep getting incentives to push them. We have many good people by no fault of their own are addicted.

 

Unless you are a deep undercover narc in the movies, no one is putting a gun to your head to try coke, meth, etc.

 

To me, not apples and apples.

[Spanky99]

Unfortunately very similar to driving a car while intoxicated or high. Could have been a much worse disaster had the crash taken place in a populated area.

 

[BlueRocky]

While the term drug addict might be accurate. To me a drug addict is someone who got addicted to recreational drugs because they liked coke or meth too much etc.

 

Those who suffered injury, athletes, veterans etc who were prescribed pain killers and then can not shake them and have a problem, are not in the same class IMO. I think to call them drug addicts is putting them in the same basket as some idiot who did meth for fun one night and then became addicted.

 

Opioid overdose has been a huge issue in Canada (& USA) over the past few years. Most of them started off as legit due to car accident or workplace injury.

 

It’s not unusual to see people get hooked and have a hard time getting off (seems more prevalent in caucasians), and it’s so much more common than most people realize. Being an insider of the industry for eight years I’ve seen some stuff.

 

But despite how common it is, most people have it under controlled, of course... as long as they’re getting their pills. Missing doses can bring some really unpleasant visits to the healthcare workers.

[Spanky99]

Opioid overdose has been a huge issue in Canada (& USA) over the past few years. Most of them started off as legit due to car accident or workplace injury.

 

It’s not unusual to see people get hooked and have a hard time getting off (seems more prevalent in caucasians), and it’s so much more common than most people realize. Being an insider of the industry for eight years I’ve seen some stuff.

 

But despite how common it is, most people have it under controlled, of course... as long as they’re getting their pills. Missing doses can bring some really unpleasant visits to the healthcare workers.

 

Hell yeah, it's drug abuse... how they found that path is different, but addiction is what it is.

 

CD's f***ed analogy is wrong. It happens to folk everyday.

[Carlos Danger]

Sorry, I refuse to think that drug addict was an appropriate description of Roy Halladay. I also refuse to equate people with opiate problems that derived from an injury/prescription with those running around jonesing for a bump of coke or doing meth in the trailer.

[Spanky99]

Sorry, I refuse to think that drug addict was an appropriate description of Roy Halladay. I also refuse to equate people with opiate problems that derived from an injury/prescription with those running around jonesing for a bump of coke or doing meth in the trailer.

 

No one said he was a drug addict, if they did, ignore. Seriously, stop it.

[Spanky99]

He made a mistake, like many.

 

It sucks.

[Beans]

Those who suffered injury, athletes, veterans etc who were prescribed pain killers and then can not shake them and have a problem, are not in the same class IMO. I think to call them drug addicts is putting them in the same basket as some idiot who did meth for fun one night and then became addicted.

 

lol, obviously you've never done drugs before.

 

It is to me.

 

Coke, meth etc are a personal lifestyle choice.

 

Tone deaf.

 

Like Max said, blaming (some) addicts for their addiction is unhelpful.

 

Athletes, Veterans, people who had to have various types of surgeries, were prescribed these drugs initially by a doctor or trainer, they are told they need to take them. The pharmaceutical companies are fighting tooth and nail against legalizing marijuana so they can keep pumping addictive obituate and doctors keep getting incentives to push them. We have many good people by no fault of their own are addicted.

 

1) Cocaine was once prescribed by doctors.

 

20 Meth was once prescribed by doctors.

 

3) Like prescribed opiate painkillers and street heroin are related, prescribed adderall and street meth are related. If you're going to blame 'the system' for one, then blame it for all of them.

 

Unless you are a deep undercover narc in the movies, no one is putting a gun to your head to try coke, meth, etc.

 

To me, not apples and apples.

 

You keep mentioning coke and meth together, but they are not exactly apples to apples either.

 

 

In the end, what happened to Roy Halladay is tragic. Let's just leave it at that and not make it a good drugs versus bad drugs thing.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Beans

[Spanky99]

No one, is calling Roy, an addict *******.

[max silver]

Sorry, I refuse to think that drug addict was an appropriate description of Roy Halladay. I also refuse to equate people with opiate problems that derived from an injury/prescription with those running around jonesing for a bump of coke or doing meth in the trailer.

 

I can see taking issue with calling Roy Halladay something like a junkie given the negative connotation of that particular term, but don't really see what's wrong saying he was a drug addict, it's just stating the truth of the situation. It unfortunately sounded like he may have been suffering from multiple substance addictions at the time of his death. I'm not so sure if there is even really a more "sanitized" term available to describe what he was dealing with.

[Spanky99]

I can see taking issue with calling Roy Halladay something like a junkie given the negative connotation of that particular term, but don't really see what's wrong saying he was a drug addict, it's just stating the truth of the situation. It unfortunately sounded like he may have been suffering from multiple substance addictions at the time of his death. I'm not so sure if there is even really a more "sanitized" term available to describe what he was dealing with.

 

I don't think Roy was an addict, you're talking different folk.

[AintNoThang]

Hi, guys. The first time I did coke I had a threesome.

[Beans]

Hi, guys. The first time I did coke I had a threesome.

 

I'm sure we all have good drug stories, but drugs killed Roy Halladay, so for now maybe hold off on sharing.

[Deadpool]

I've never done a non-prescription drug harder then pot, but I vehemently disagree that there are like "good addicts" who are where they are due to circumstances and "bad addicts" who are where they are because they're just not good enough to resist drugs.

 

That's some ******** right there. Addiction is a disease, there aren't good cancer patients and bad ones. There aren't people who deserve their depression and those who are just good kids who got dealt a bad hand. f*** 100% of that noise.

[Krylian]

I've never done a non-prescription drug harder then pot, but I vehemently disagree that there are like "good addicts" who are where they are due to circumstances and "bad addicts" who are where they are because they're just not good enough to resist drugs.

 

That's some ******** right there. Addiction is a disease, there aren't good cancer patients and bad ones. There aren't people who deserve their depression and those who are just good kids who got dealt a bad hand. f*** 100% of that noise.

 

This debate is a very slippery slope.....BUT...for example...when you look at a dude that's been smoking for 30 years, knowing what we know about cigarettes, and develops lung cancer. And on the other hand, you get an 8 year old kid that develops leukemia, who did nothing wrong....it's not hard to see why people sympathize differently when comparing the two.

 

I think that's the spirit of this general debate. Going into a potentially dangerous situation with your eyes wide open is viewed differently than being blindsided by something you couldn't see coming.

 

I'm not taking a stance one way or the other with Doc, cause I don't know enough about his personal life...I was just stating from a high level perspective.

[Deadpool]

This debate is a very slippery slope.....BUT...for example...when you look at a dude that's been smoking for 30 years, knowing what we know about cigarettes, and develops lung cancer. And on the other hand, you get an 8 year old kid that develops leukemia, who did nothing wrong....it's not hard to see why people sympathize differently when comparing the two.

 

I think that's the spirit of this general debate. Going into a potentially dangerous situation with your eyes wide open is viewed differently than being blindsided by something you couldn't see coming.

 

I'm not taking a stance one way or the other with Doc, cause I don't know enough about his personal life...I was just stating from a high level perspective.

 

Smoking rates have declined a lot, which is a great thing, and it's also an addiction that's hard as f*** to quit (I say this as someone who has never been a smoker). Most people start smoking by like ~12, the cases of someone starting to smoke in their 20s or 30s are so phenomenally rare as to be not worth mentioning, so you can't fault an idiot kid for being an idiot really...

 

My grandfather died of lung cancer, and he'd been cigarette free for over 20 years at the time, he started smoking in the army during WWII when they were literally issued cigarettes.

 

But, I suppose, in the very specific case of someone who was over the age of say 25 when they started smoking, somehow wasn't addicted to the highly addictive substance, and refused to stop even though they have all the information, yes, that person is a bad cancer victim.

 

My fiance's mom died last summer of cancer (at f***ing 50, damn...). She was a heavy smoker until the day she died. But it was breast cancer that moved into her bones. So... Yeah, she was a smoker, but was she a bad cancer victim because of that?

 

And maybe that 8 year old kid was a HUGE dick, you don't know.

[Pendleton]

Sorry, I refuse to think that drug addict was an appropriate description of Roy Halladay. I also refuse to equate people with opiate problems that derived from an injury/prescription with those running around jonesing for a bump of coke or doing meth in the trailer.

 

Found the guy who's never done drugs due to never having been offered any.

[Brownie19]

Now this is an interesting debate.

 

Based on Brandy's comments, it does sounds like Roy had a problem. That initially made me sad because I thought so highly of him. But after letting it sink in a bit, I'm no longer sad. A lot of people (both good and bad people) struggle with issues and develop bad habits. I have no idea what was going on in his life and I'm not about to start judging him over it.

 

I'm going to choose to remember him for the class act he was on the field. A true competitor and one of the very best players to ever dawn the Blue Jays uniform.

[max silver]

Now this is an interesting debate.

 

Based on Brandy's comments, it does sounds like Roy had a problem. That initially made me sad because I thought so highly of him. But after letting it sink in a bit, I'm no longer sad. A lot of people (both good and bad people) struggle with issues and develop bad habits. I have no idea what was going on in his life and I'm not about to start judging him over it.

 

I'm going to choose to remember him for the class act he was on the field. A true competitor and one of the very best players to ever dawn the Blue Jays uniform.

 

Roy Halladay seemed like an amazing human being with the outpouring of stories of how many lives he touched that emerged upon his death. SI ran a very in depth look at his life after his passing, it's a must read for anybody who missed it originally.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/07/17/roy-halladay-death-philadelphia-phillies

[Carlos Danger]

Found the guy who's never done drugs due to never having been offered any.

 

Actually, I have a shitload of very close buddies who got hooked on fnnn prescribed opiates because 20 yrs of war takes a toll on you and seeing guys who have been in helo crashes, IED explosions, shot, or are dealing with PTSD and suicidal issues due to years of war.

 

I don't equate those f***ing heros dealing with a serious issue to some punk who goes to UCC, live in Forest Hill has too much of daddy's money and was so stressed about climate change and social inequities that he blows $2K on coke a week and becomes addicted.

 

Of course you wouldn't know one f***ing thing about the first example you infantile.

[Pendleton]

Actually, I have a shitload of very close buddies who got hooked on fnnn prescribed opiates because 20 yrs of war takes a toll on you and seeing guys who have been in helo crashes, IED explosions, shot, or are dealing with PTSD and suicidal issues due to years of war.

 

I don't equate those f***ing heros dealing with a serious issue to some punk who goes to UCC, live in Forest Hill has too much of daddy's money and was so stressed about climate change and social inequities that he blows $2K on coke a week and becomes addicted.

 

Of course you wouldn't know one f***ing thing about the first example you infantile.

 

Assuming every addict falls into one of those two categories is just ignorant beyond belief. There is a root to most street drug addictions beyond trying and liking drugs, you shouldn't need that explained to you.

 

I've seen enough of your interactions here to have serious doubts about you have a shitload of close friends. This conversation being a shining example.

[max silver]

Actually, I have a shitload of very close buddies who got hooked on fnnn prescribed opiates because 20 yrs of war takes a toll on you and seeing guys who have been in helo crashes, IED explosions, shot, or are dealing with PTSD and suicidal issues due to years of war.

 

I don't equate those f***ing heros dealing with a serious issue to some punk who goes to UCC, live in Forest Hill has too much of daddy's money and was so stressed about climate change and social inequities that he blows $2K on coke a week and becomes addicted.

 

Of course you wouldn't know one f***ing thing about the first example you infantile.

 

If you were to examine the root cause of most addiction issues you would be very likely to find an underlying root cause, whether it's financial stress, abuse, ptsd, etc. Each individual would have their own unique set of circumstances that would lead them down the path of addiction. Suggesting some people deserve addiction or somehow asked for it because it wasn't prescribed by a physician is very flawed. Nobody sets out choosing to be addicted to a substance, and rather than demonizing those that end up with addictions it's far more productive for society to help those people to beat the addictions and allow them to return as healthy productive members of society.

[Carlos Danger]

Assuming every addict falls into one of those two categories is just ignorant beyond belief. There is a root to most street drug addictions beyond trying and liking drugs, you shouldn't need that explained to you.

 

I've seen enough of your interactions here to have serious doubts about you have a shitload of close friends. This conversation being a shining example.

 

Those are two examples to make a point you choad.

 

You know nothing about me, literally nothing. I can f***ing guaranty you I have done more with my life then a guy who's claim to fame is 5 yrs in the same Fantasy baseball league and is now the self proclaimed Fantasy baseball Police Captain.

 

You couldn't even carry my jock strap.

 

Seems like a lot of you want to make excuses and coddle people who became self-addicted to recreational drugs. Yes, we should help them, and yes addictions are extremely hard to buck. However, there also needs to be self-accountability and self-discipline in life.

 

There are people who made a choice and others who by no fault of their own or following doctors recommendations became addicts.

 

Not equal to me and never will be.

 

Full disclosure. I think weed should be fully legal. No problem with it. Never done hard drugs. Plenty of opportunity.

 

I lived in Fnnn Colombia for over 7 years and south Florida for a large portion of my life and never touched the s***. Self-discipline and personal responsibility.

[Pendleton]

Those are two examples to make a point you choad.

 

You know nothing about me, literally nothing. I can f***ing guaranty you I have done more with my life then a guy who's claim to fame is 5 yrs in the same Fantasy baseball league and is now the self proclaimed Fantasy baseball Police Captain.

 

You couldn't even carry my jock strap.

 

Seems like a lot of you want to make excuses and coddle people who became self-addicted to recreational drugs. Yes, we should help them, and yes addictions are extremely hard to buck. However, there also needs to be self-accountability and self-discipline in life.

 

There are people who made a choice and others who by know fault of their own or following doctors recommendations became addicts.

 

Not equal to me and never will be.

 

Full disclosure. I think weed should be fully legal. No problem with it. Never done hard drugs. Plenty of opportunity.

 

I lived in Fnnn Colombia for over 7 years and south Florida for a large portion of my life and never touched the s***. Self-discipline and personal responsibility.

 

Seems I'm not the only one who feels you have a severe lack of understanding of addiction. Your original blanket statement that coke and meth are lifestyle choices was utterly ridiculous and reeks of a very sheltered life.

 

Carlos is a hero for never touching drugs, and everyone who wasn't a war hero has no justification for becoming an addict. These are the type of conclusions you arrive at when you live life with your head up your own ass.

[max silver]

Those are two examples to make a point you choad.

 

You know nothing about me, literally nothing. I can f***ing guaranty you I have done more with my life then a guy who's claim to fame is 5 yrs in the same Fantasy baseball league and is now the self proclaimed Fantasy baseball Police Captain.

 

You couldn't even carry my jock strap.

 

Seems like a lot of you want to make excuses and coddle people who became self-addicted to recreational drugs. Yes, we should help them, and yes addictions are extremely hard to buck. However, there also needs to be self-accountability and self-discipline in life.

 

There are people who made a choice and others who by no fault of their own or following doctors recommendations became addicts.

 

Not equal to me and never will be.

 

Full disclosure. I think weed should be fully legal. No problem with it. Never done hard drugs. Plenty of opportunity.

 

I lived in Fnnn Colombia for over 7 years and south Florida for a large portion of my life and never touched the s***. Self-discipline and personal responsibility.

 

You walk a pretty slippery slope when you assign blame like this. Here's a fictional narrative to illustrate my point. Let's say a military veteran with PTSD tries a hard drug with one of his buddies, something like heroin for instance. He finds that the drug gives him a sense of calm for the first time since returning to civilian life. He ends up addicted to the drug very quickly. In your eyes is this person a loser who should have his feet held to the fire, or is this situation one with nuance that should be examined before making a determination?

[Dick_Pole]

I get a feeling from all these "enlightened" comments that most people here have lived a pretty privileged lifestyle. My experience with addicts - an experience that goes back before the opioid epidemic where all these enlightened left wing comments started popping up - is that on average these are the worst, most selfish pieces of s*** human beings in the world. They abuse, steal from and terrorize their families, including elderly parents/grandparents and are threats or nuisances to the local community. Sometimes in the name of their addictions, other times because they are generally just pieces of s***.

 

And let's not pretend that the war on drugs back in the 80's was 100% full in force. There were PLENTY of avenues for addicts to get help if they wanted. Addiction recovery centers are some of the least effective/biggest scam businesses going on right now. The desire to change comes 100% from within. These centers are more of an award than anything. You want them fixed? Put them in a rubber room for a month until they bang their heads on the wall and puke themselves out. Yes I completely approve of having a support system after that. Find some people in recovery and befriend them if you don't have a family or became estranged.

 

Poverty is definitely a factor, in that those who are poor will do more extreme things to feed their addictions rather than the ones who have money to burn. And of course not EVERYONE who got involved in drugs did so out of some moral failing or are genuine pieces of s***. No total population of people can be generalized completely. But to that extent there are also plenty of people worth giving up on. Maybe giving up on them is finally the kick in the ass they need.

 

My opinion on how to deal with drug addicts is somewhere between Duterte and Bolsonaro. I'll leave it at that because prolonging this type of conversation like Cross Dresser has obviously gets nowhere except accusations that people have no friends. Newsflash, people who don't abuse substances can find plenty of friends and some good ones too. Because generally those aren't the people who are depressed maniacs who need to get wasted every weekend to forget their s***** life and have a good time.

[Carlos Danger]

You walk a pretty slippery slope when you assign blame like this. Here's a fictional narrative to illustrate my point. Let's say a military veteran with PTSD tries a hard drug with one of his buddies, something like heroin for instance. He finds that the drug gives him a sense of calm for the first time since returning to civilian life. He ends up addicted to the drug very quickly. In your eyes is this person a loser who should have his feet held to the fire, or is this situation one with nuance that should be examined before making a determination?

 

No, that is exactly my point. I don't put someone who becomes addicted to any type of drug because suffering from PTSD, in the same boat as some 17 yr old who gets addicted because he/she was running around with the cool crowd and they thought it was the cool thing to do.

[Carlos Danger]

Cross Dresser

 

See, Dick knows more about me then you ever will Pendelton, you below replacement career AAA poster.

[Dick_Pole]

I'll add that the left-wing addiction enabler industry created by big pharma (Purdue) is meant to benefit big pharma.

 

The solution to diabetes and heart disease isn't diet and exercise. It's pills!

 

The solution to drug addiction isn't locking someone in a rubber room until they puke themselves out. It's addiction centers and safe injection sites!

 

Addiction f***s up the brain just like overeating f***s up the body. The correct way to handle both would be for that person to change behaviours stemming from their own desire to change. That's not how our society works though, some people are getting rich off of it and the enlightened left-wingers who would normally hate predatory capitalist behaviour fall for it.

[Beans]

No, that is exactly my point. I don't put someone who becomes addicted to any type of drug because suffering from PTSD, in the same boat as some 17 yr old who gets addicted because he/she was running around with the cool crowd and they thought it was the cool thing to do.

 

That 17-year old could just as easily have his or her own form of PTSD, and if it goes back far enough in childhood it’s called C-PTSD (the C standing for complex).