Annual Hall of Fame induction thread

[G-Snarls]

Discuss

 

Public polls showing the story

 

Final announcements soon

[BTS]

Prediction: a bunch of guys who deserve to get in will be snubbed.

[G-Snarls]

Murray Chass being a tool and making more news than the players

 

Booooo

[G-Snarls]

All votes will be made public starting next year

[Brownie19]

There was some spreadsheet showing the current status going around. It never worked when I opened it and now I've lost interest. Can someone post a link that works?

[G-Snarls]

There was some spreadsheet showing the current status going around. It never worked when I opened it and now I've lost interest. Can someone post a link that works?

 

http://bit.ly/tracker17

[G-Snarls]

Bagwell

Rodriguez

Raines

 

Looking good

[G-Snarls]

Bonds and Clemens have dropped significantly below the induction line since the first batch of public votes

 

Boooooooo

Edited January 10, 2017 by G-Snarls

[Brownie19]

Bagwell

Rodriguez

Raines

 

Looking good

 

Agreed. I love that Bags is getting in.

 

Vlad is on the cusp too. I expected Vlad would get in, but it's crazy to see him getting in on his first try when a superior player like Jim Edmonds got booted off the ballot in his first year and guys like Bonds, Clemens, Schilling and Manny aren't getting enough love to get in. I forgot how stupid this voting really is.

[P2F]

Bagwell is probably my favourite player of all-time, so I love that it looks like this is the year. His accomplishments were somewhat unheralded during his career. Very worthy of getting in.

[Terminator]

I'm seeing some good things and some not so good things and that's an improvement.

 

Good:

-Bonds and Clemens rising. Makes me hopeful they eventually get in.

-Tim Raines is looking good.

-Bagwell looking good.

-Pudge looking good.

-Edgar Martinez is improving.

-Mussina is improving.

-Nearly 9 votes per ballot is excellent with the overwhelming majority of ballots being 10-player ballots. There are currently more than 10 worthy guys so so as close to 10 as that number gets the better we can clear the logjam.

 

Bad:

-Schilling is dropping, likely due to his political beliefs which shouldn't matter.

-Trevor Hoffman has a chance this year to get in, eventually he will. He shouldn't even sniff it.

-Vlad Guerrero has a chance to be a 1st ballot HoFer and Larry Walker won't ever get in. Larry Walker was hands down a better player than Vlad and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. Similar sticks but Walker was an excellent baserunner and fielder and Vlad was bad at both.

 

That said, this is only about 43% of the ballots revealed so far. All those dinosaur writers that don't know how to use the internet to post their ballots publicly could tank Raines or Bagwell.

[Brownie19]

It's amazing how Vlady was/is known as a 5 tool player....yet he was a poor base runner and terrible defender essentially throughout his entire career. He's probably one of the most misconceived players of this past generation. He might be one of the last players to be widely considered a Superstar / HOF player despite what advanced metrics suggested. Brian Giles was basically the same player as Vlady.

 

Larry Walker was a better hitter, better base runner, better defender.

[Terminator]

It's amazing how Vlady was/is known as a 5 tool player....yet he was a poor base runner and terrible defender essentially throughout his entire career. He's probably one of the most misconceived players of this past generation. He might be one of the last players to be widely considered a Superstar / HOF player despite what advanced metrics suggested. Brian Giles was basically the same player as Vlady.

 

Larry Walker was a better hitter, better base runner, better defender.

 

He had a couple of years with high steal totals (along with a high number of CS too) and I think people thought because he stole 40 bags he was fast and a good baserunner. They ignore his 20 CS that year. He did have a cannon of an arm so perhaps because he had a cannon and because they thought he was fast that he must have been good at defense too?

 

Larry Walker gets overly punished because he played at Coors Field but even factoring that in he was a better hitter.

 

Vlad played about a full season's worth of games more than Walker did but he still finished with about 14 less WAR.

[Brownie19]

Edmonds is about 10 more WAR than Vlady in about the same # of years. He couldn't even get 5% of the votes...

 

It's kind of funny that Vlady doesn't qualify if you look at advanced metrics - yet he didn't reach many (any?) of the traditional milestones either (500 hr, 200 sb). He had a very strong slash line and obviously was a very good hitter, but he seems to be a product of marketing created by the " Sportcenter highlights" era. He did spectacular things on the baseball field, which would get plastered all over Sportscenter and people would assume he's something he really wasn't. Cespedes might get a little of that these days.

[KingKat]

Edmonds is about 10 more WAR than Vlady in about the same # of years. He couldn't even get 5% of the votes...

 

It's kind of funny that Vlady doesn't qualify if you look at advanced metrics - yet he didn't reach many (any?) of the traditional milestones either (500 hr, 200 sb). He had a very strong slash line and obviously was a very good hitter, but he seems to be a product of marketing created by the " Sportcenter highlights" era. He did spectacular things on the baseball field, which would get plastered all over Sportscenter and people would assume he's something he really wasn't. Cespedes might get a little of that these days.

 

To me it's more about Vlad's plate coverage than the highlight reels. It was just so uncanny. He was such a great pure hitter. It's hard to reconcile that with the idea that he's a lesser player than Jim Edmonds. Edmonds is the one I actually mostly remember from being a highlight reel staple.

[Jimcanuck]

Larry Walker gets overly punished because he played at Coors Field but even factoring that in he was a better hitter.

 

Coors a bit, yes. But also, the HOF voters don't understand what a complete ballplayer Walker was. Until more of them pay attention to defense, baserunning, OBP, etc and less to shiny s*** like average, HR, RBI, players like Walker will get shafted.

[Terminator]

To me it's more about Vlad's plate coverage than the highlight reels. It was just so uncanny. He was such a great pure hitter. It's hard to reconcile that with the idea that he's a lesser player than Jim Edmonds. Edmonds is the one I actually mostly remember from being a highlight reel staple.

 

Yeah Edmonds had a lot of highlights, his catch is probably one of the most played highlights ever. I think if you were in the steroid era 300+ homers just isn't going to cut it for the voters. You have to get 400+. Edmonds, Walker, Edgar, etc. all 300+ guys deserving of more consideration but none getting in.

[Boxcar]

Murray Chass being a tool and making more news than the players

 

Booooo

 

Murray Chass gives me the impression that he's someone who gets McDonald's breakfast every day solely so he can complain about the employees.

[Dick_Pole]

Larry Walker gets overly punished because he played at Coors Field but even factoring that in he was a better hitter.

 

Vlad played about a full season's worth of games more than Walker did but he still finished with about 14 less WAR.

 

Edmonds is about 10 more WAR than Vlady in about the same # of years. He couldn't even get 5% of the votes...

 

 

Affirmative action.

[wamco]

Feel free for to post your hypothetical ballot to be criticized before the results come in and you say how stupid the writers are

[TheHurl]

My ballot:

 

Bonds

Clemens

Bagwell

Edgar Martinez

Raines

Ivan Rodriguez

Mussina (this one I'm struggling with as I always felt that to be in the Hall you had to be the best in your position at some point Mussina was top 10 often)

Schilling

Walker

Trevor Hoffman (3rd most WAR as a reliever all time. Lee Smith is 5th best, Wagner 6th)

 

I'm not as opposed to Vlad as the rest of you but he just doesn't get there. ManRam is my 11th name no doubt though and mostly because relievers get no love but to be the best or second best in your position gets you there.

Vlad is next on my list though.

[Boxcar]

Ew @ Hoffman over Manny

[Boxcar]

Imo:

Barry Bonds

Edgar Martinez

Curt Schilling

Roger Clemens

Tim Raines

Mike Mussina

Manny Ramirez

Ivan Rodriguez

Jeff Bagwell

Larry Walker

[Captain Adama]

Bonds

Schilling

Clemens

Raines

Walker

Mussina

Bagwell

Ramirez

Pudge

Edgar

 

It's pretty easy, but the 10 player limit on the ballot is stupid, Guerrero deserves it as well. Hoffman sure I guess...he was one of the few relievers who was consistently good for a long time.

[Brownie19]

You two just posted the same list and it's the same list I'd make.

[TheHurl]

You two just posted the same list and it's the same list I'd make.

 

Sort by career WAR and post.

 

I'm joking as I think there are probably 13 on the current ballot that deserve to get in. My issue with Manny is that he had what...one top 10 WAR year in his career? He was healthy and played everyday which is nice and has got many into the HOF in the past. I just personally like guys that were and are in the story as best in their position year over year (my same issue with Mussina)

 

If you are going to rate pitchers as just pitchers and lump relievers and starters together than no reliever (including Rivera) deserves to be in the HOF. But Hoffman and Wagner are two of the best relievers ever and if you are going to consider "reliever" as a position than I think they deserve to be in (with Mariano being a first ballot guy when he gets on)

[Brownie19]

Manny is the 26th best hitter of all time. Ahead of Joe Dimaggio. HOFer

[Spanky99]

You two just posted the same list and it's the same list I'd make.

 

Hahaha... same. Man-Ram is arguably one of the best RHH of all time, he should certainly get in.

[TheHurl]

Manny is the 26th best hitter of all time. Ahead of Joe Dimaggio. HOFer

 

as I said he's a HOF'er and a great hitter one of the best I've seen...but he was not a better baseball player than the 10 guys I named. I guess you could say that I take more away for being a horrible horrible fielder than I do Edgar for not being a fielder. Question is should Manny be punished for the fact that he wasn't made a DH early in his career which led to him to accumulating the second biggest negative defensive statistics.

[Boxcar]

Sort by career WAR and post.

 

I'm joking as I think there are probably 13 on the current ballot that deserve to get in. My issue with Manny is that he had what...one top 10 WAR year in his career? He was healthy and played everyday which is nice and has got many into the HOF in the past. I just personally like guys that were and are in the story as best in their position year over year (my same issue with Mussina)

 

If you are going to rate pitchers as just pitchers and lump relievers and starters together than no reliever (including Rivera) deserves to be in the HOF. But Hoffman and Wagner are two of the best relievers ever and if you are going to consider "reliever" as a position than I think they deserve to be in (with Mariano being a first ballot guy when he gets on)

 

Manny for me gets more consideration from me than a 50 War guy who split it between offense and defense equally. Manny is one of the best hitters ever, that deserves recognition regardless of his play in the field imo. I don't punish Edgar for it and I feel the same way about Manny.