Jays vs. Indians ALCS Discussion

[thatoneguy]

I'm going to be glad if he's not back next year.

[King]

http://i.imgur.com/SAyW0ml.png

 

Grant

 

http://i.giphy.com/S3Ot3hZ5bcy8o.gif

[Grant77]

Yeah I know, but especially in the first game, the calls were going both ways. Lots of questionable calls all around (what do you expect from a group with Laz Diaz and Jim Wolf) but nothing like the adventures with Caparraza. This is just bad umping in general, we're not getting targeting, and our players should be ashamed if that's what their excuse is going to be. The first game I understand that was Kluber, but the second game was mind boggling, Tomiln was throwing a curve close to 50% of the time and we were going down like flies, we seriously couldn't adjust and look breaking ball? Or was that the umps fault too?

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/125250/indians-called-strikes-advantage-significant-through-2-games

 

Interesting article if you care to read it. Nine pitches is an awfully high number and has undoubtedly influenced the outcomes in a big way. Those are a couple extra walks, a few less outs, and a few more hitter's counts with guys on.

 

Idiots like king will always try to turn this into a 'conspiracy' because he likes this to be a soap opera instead of baseball forum, but I think we can admit that the team got screwed for one reason or another (probably bad umpiring) and just leave it at that. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the facts and the players don't need to be criticized for it. I like awareness and honesty from players.

[burlingtonbandit]

Bautista is a douche. Always has been.

 

So is Donaldson but who cares? Everyone just wants the team to win. People will be crying about wanting Bautista back next year when the offence is crap.

[BTS]

I bet Cleveland gets fewer calls than Toronto tomorrow. The combination of being at home and having Kluber, Miller, and Allen throw like 66% of their innings and an elite command guy another 30% most likely helped them get calls.

[burlingtonbandit]

I bet Cleveland gets fewer calls than Toronto tomorrow. The combination of being at home and having Kluber, Miller, and Allen throw like 66% of their innings and an elite command guy another 30% most likely helped them get calls.

 

The 2 Umps were notorious for favouring the home team the first 2 games. There has been some terrible umping this postseason and MLB should be ashamed. Watching the Dodgers game and Bryant got a strike called that was like 8 inches inside.

 

Either get a robot strike zone or teach umpires not to get fooled by framing.

[Stangstag]

The 2 Umps were notorious for favouring the home team the first 2 games. There has been some terrible umping this postseason and MLB should be ashamed. Watching the Dodgers game and Bryant got a strike called that was like 8 inches inside.

 

Either get a robot strike zone or teach umpires not to get fooled by framing.

 

Yeah that call against Bryant in the 9th was terrible

[Grant77]

Yeah that call against Bryant in the 9th was terrible

 

The one Bautista K'd on is called 1.8% of the time. The Bryant one may be even worse.

[Grant77]

I bet Cleveland gets fewer calls than Toronto tomorrow. The combination of being at home and having Kluber, Miller, and Allen throw like 66% of their innings and an elite command guy another 30% most likely helped them get calls.

 

Are you implying that Miller and Allen got calls because they were showing good command on the edge of the strike zone? I would disagree with that because it certainly wasn't the case.

[ChrisS]

Are you implying that Miller and Allen got calls because they were showing good command on the edge of the strike zone? I would disagree with that because it certainly wasn't the case.

 

Miller was just good period. I think most of these pitches were from Kluber or Tomlin.

When borderline pitches and pitches a little outside the zone start to go against you, it forces you to start swinging at more junk.

I didnt watch the game on TV so I have no idea how bad the calls were in relation to pitch tracker.. I just hope that being at home the next few games we will get the advantage and it all evens out.

[bones10]

Yeah that call against Bryant in the 9th was terrible

 

The one Bautista K'd on is called 1.8% of the time. The Bryant one may be even worse.

 

 

You guys talking about pitch #1 on the left? I wasnt watching but thats brutal.

[GD]

I bet Cleveland gets fewer calls than Toronto tomorrow. The combination of being at home and having Kluber, Miller, and Allen throw like 66% of their innings and an elite command guy another 30% most likely helped them get calls.

 

Also, all of their catchers are elite pitch framers.

[RealAccountant]

Indians have gotten almost 10 percent better calls

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/125250/indians-called-strikes-advantage-significant-through-2-games

[BlueJays]

Whiny Bautista complaining about the MLB calling against the Jays

Stop crying Bautista

[ElNik2013]

I wish he hadn't opened his mouth for sure even though the Jays have been getting screwed since last year's game 6 against the Royals.

 

However, going public does nothing and may even piss off Cleveland players who knows. F/O should be the one sending compaints to Commish behind the scenes.

[glory]

So is Donaldson but who cares? Everyone just wants the team to win. People will be crying about wanting Bautista back next year when the offence is crap.

 

The umpiring sucks across baseball. It's not just the Jays. Just shut up about it and work around it. Complaining about it won't accomplish anything positive. If Bautista didn't strike out on 3 pitches against Kluber in the first inning of game 1, or with runners on in game 2 against Tomlin (both swinging) and so on, then maybe the whining wouldn't be necessary.

 

This dude has been complaining about umps forever. It's tired, and the fans latch on to it as some sort of Canadian conspiracy every single time. It's just bad umpiring that will always exist until they go to robots. Incompetence doesn't target anyone in particular in this case.

[BTS]

Are you implying that Miller and Allen got calls because they were showing good command on the edge of the strike zone? I would disagree with that because it certainly wasn't the case.

 

You make very frequent use of words like 'certainly' and 'unquestionably'. You should stop doing that.

 

And I was implying that elite pitchers get calls. Andrew Miller is going to get questionable strike calls with that filthy slider that he slings across the zone, but maybe never actually through it.

[Dr. Dinger]

Got back from Cleveland around 8 pm last night, holy mother of god what a dumpster fire that city is. Also, Andrew Miller is a god. Completely unhittable.

[RealAccountant]

Got back from Cleveland around 8 pm last night, holy mother of god what a dumpster fire that city is. Also, Andrew Miller is a god. Completely unhittable.

 

Miller may have put them over the top holy f***

 

What an elite reliever.

[Dr. Dinger]

Miller may have put them over the top holy f***

 

What an elite reliever.

 

I'm not even mad, he's just so f***ing absurdly good. And it sure looks like they're going to use him for 2 innings a game, come hell or high water.

[fatcowxlive]

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/125250/indians-called-strikes-advantage-significant-through-2-games

 

Interesting article if you care to read it. Nine pitches is an awfully high number and has undoubtedly influenced the outcomes in a big way. Those are a couple extra walks, a few less outs, and a few more hitter's counts with guys on.

 

Idiots like king will always try to turn this into a 'conspiracy' because he likes this to be a soap opera instead of baseball forum, but I think we can admit that the team got screwed for one reason or another (probably bad umpiring) and just leave it at that. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the facts and the players don't need to be criticized for it. I like awareness and honesty from players.

 

Yes, I agree with you we've been getting bad calls called against us, especially this one which i'm still scratching my head about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8blFAVVxn0&feature=youtu.be&t=4702

 

However, my point is this is normal. I didn't feel like we got jerked like we have been before by Jim Wolf or like Caparazza or a few other games this season. We haven't been able to get hits, Bautista has one of his strike zone plots with a "bad call" where he fouled a ball that was right down the middle. Cleveland have done a great job pitching to our batters keeping them off balanced, but there was no one making adjustments to try and play with the circumstances. If the Jays realize the pitch on the outside corner has been called a strike incorrectly for the past 2 innings, then stop taking it and try to foul it off or go the other way instead of bitching about it. Literally this entire series has went in the direction of the Indians exploiting something, then sticking with it because our batters decide to not alter their plan at the plate.

 

I'm still baffled that Tomlin was able to get away with throwing a curve 50% of the time. Literally after the first 2 or 3 innings someone should have said "eliminate every pitch other than the curve ball" because every 2nd pitch will be that, instead they were striking out like files.

[BTS]

In the last 3 years Andrew Miller has thrown 16 postseason innings. His opponents are slashing 080/145/120. Over the same period, they're slashing 153/219/256 in 198 regular season innings. He's unhittable.

[Dr. Dinger]

In the last 3 years Andrew Miller has thrown 16 postseason innings. His opponents are slashing 080/125/120. Over the same period, they're slashing 153/219/256 in 198 regular season innings. He's unhittable.

 

You could say Francona is abusing him right now, but I'm also pretty sure Andrew Miller is marching into Francona's office before every game and saying "you better f***ing pitch me at least 2 innings today." He's just on a goddamn mission. Meh, he's got all offseason to rest.

[fatcowxlive]

Also, all of their catchers are elite pitch framers.

 

Can we also please not forget this point too? Whenever Martin gets us a call we call it elite framing but when Perez does it for his team it's bad umping. Dude has done a phenomenal job pulling that outside pitch back in the zone. s***** umps like Laz Diaz and Jim Wolf don't stand a chance in making the correct call on those framed pitches, especially when we're on the road

[fatcowxlive]

You could say Francona is abusing him right now, but I'm also pretty sure Andrew Miller is marching into Francona's office before every game and saying "you better f***ing pitch me at least 2 innings today." He's just on a goddamn mission. Meh, he's got all offseason to rest.

 

Francona says that he has a meeting with the pitching coach about how many pitches they can get out of him being effective that day. The problem is they probably keep agreeing on 20 pitches and right now that's enough for 2 innings lol

[Dr. Dinger]

I'm still baffled that Tomlin was able to get away with throwing a curve 50% of the time. Literally after the first 2 or 3 innings someone should have said "eliminate every pitch other than the curve ball" because every 2nd pitch will be that, instead they were striking out like files.

 

The Jays best hitters have been sitting on fastballs for years. Even Cody Allen when he came in on Saturday was throwing slider after slider. Our big 3 just aren't seeing many fastballs to attack right now. Kudos to Cleveland for good gameplanning.

[RealAccountant]

Did Miller fail as a starter? With that height and left handed arc he could have been the next Randy Johnson

[burlingtonbandit]

The umpiring sucks across baseball. It's not just the Jays. Just shut up about it and work around it. Complaining about it won't accomplish anything positive. If Bautista didn't strike out on 3 pitches against Kluber in the first inning of game 1, or with runners on in game 2 against Tomlin (both swinging) and so on, then maybe the whining wouldn't be necessary.

 

This dude has been complaining about umps forever. It's tired, and the fans latch on to it as some sort of Canadian conspiracy every single time. It's just bad umpiring that will always exist until they go to robots. Incompetence doesn't target anyone in particular in this case.

 

He probably thinks by speaking out about it, that it will give them a few calls the next couple games which might happen so I wouldn't say it doesn't accomplish anything.

[Dr. Dinger]

Did Miller fail as a starter? With that height and left handed arc he could have been the next Randy Johnson

 

He had terrible control back then.

[HERPDERP]

Did Miller fail as a starter? With that height and left handed arc he could have been the next Randy Johnson

 

he failed miserably as a starter, but he found his mechanics with Boston as a reliever.

 

He really should be given a shot to start again.