Blue Jays #1 in attendance in American League

[EdwinsParrot]

I actually liked that logo, but i dont miss the black jay uniforms thats for sure.

[Jonn]

I mean this looks pretty cool for an away uniform

 

http://balanceoffood.typepad.com/.a/6a00e55214ffbe8834019b0471c8e3970d-pi

 

and these uniforms were cool

 

 

The only clusterf*** of it all is the black hats. Use a navy blue or a blue like the one on the jersey and it makes all the difference in the world.

 

I was always fine with the road uniform. But the homes and black alts were atrocious. Especially when they had that gross hat. I hope they burned that concept with fire.

[Maahfaace]

I mean this looks pretty cool for an away uniform

 

http://balanceoffood.typepad.com/.a/6a00e55214ffbe8834019b0471c8e3970d-pi

 

and these uniforms were cool

 

 

The only clusterf*** of it all is the black hats. Use a navy blue or a blue like the one on the jersey and it makes all the difference in the world.

 

I hated these uni's and still do. I also can't stand it when teams constantly change their logos for what pretty much amounts to a cash grab.

 

Winnepeg Jets need to go back to their original logo as well

[BlueJayWay]

I think this detail is less talked about than it should be. The branding was terrible and the franchise had no sense of identity at all. Fans begrudgingly wore the Black Jays merchandise to show some level of support, but deep down everyone hated the uniforms. It was the product of Paul Godfrey trying to appeal to a younger generation, and it would have been cringeworthy if it wasn't so depressing. Like if your dad tried to lay down a 90s rap to impress your friends, or something.

 

A couple of months into the 2012 season and you could hardly find anyone wearing black jays gear anymore.

 

The redesign / rebirth of the classic uniform was long overdue. It brought the franchise and the entire fanbase together in unity. Now you see people wearing hats who aren't even baseball fans; they just love the look.

 

Paul Beeston may have done more to save the franchise than saber nerds give him credit for.

I agree. I always thought the rebranding was an underrated reason for the resurgence in interest.

[nextyear]

The Blue Jays are now averaging 40,036 per game at home for 2016. They are first in attendance in the American League and fourth in all of the MLB - http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

[Krylian]

The Blue Jays are now averaging 40,036 per game at home for 2016. They are first in attendance in the American League and fourth in all of the MLB - http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

 

Good. Let's see how Rogers reacts with payroll.

[Laika]

Good. Let's see how Rogers reacts with payroll.

 

It's kind of funny actually because MLB payrolls outgrew significant influence from in-person attendance long ago. The two things are just out of scale.

 

The difference between a 25k average attendance and 40k attendance might end up being, what, $10M in added payroll? Some number like that.

 

Large payroll changes are driven by TV contracts now.

 

The Blue Jays already make out like bandits with the market and TV rights structure. The attendance thing previously was just an excuse not to have a top payroll. Now they have one less excuse, basically.

[Jonn]

Good. Let's see how Rogers reacts with payroll.

 

I actually wouldn't be shocked if it dropped or stayed around where it is now. If they let Jose and Edwin walk they will probably look at platoon options to replace them. Those are the best value on the market.

[Abomination]

It's kind of funny actually because MLB payrolls outgrew significant influence from in-person attendance long ago. The two things are just out of scale.

 

The difference between a 25k average attendance and 40k attendance might end up being, what, $10M in added payroll? Some number like that.

 

Large payroll changes are driven by TV contracts now.

 

The Blue Jays already make out like bandits with the market and TV rights structure. The attendance thing previously was just an excuse not to have a top payroll. Now they have one less excuse, basically.

 

There was an article at the start of this month that said the Jays TV ratings were up 50% over this time last year.

[baseballsss]

Why is everyone so obsessed with raising the payroll? All those teams that have high payrolls are screwed with expensive stars/players that aren't doing anything for them but need to play them every game because of their contracts. Jays will be in that position with Tulo and Martin in the next couple of years.

 

You can win with the payroll that the Jays have it's just a matter of spending on the correct players.

[Laika]

Why is everyone so obsessed with raising the payroll? All those teams that have high payrolls are screwed with expensive stars/players that aren't doing anything for them but need to play them every game because of their contracts. Jays will be in that position with Tulo and Martin in the next couple of years.

 

You can win with the payroll that the Jays have it's just a matter of spending on the correct players.

 

I'm not really interested in increasing the payroll either but it would be cool to have more discretionary funds to pursue elite prospects, international free agents, take on salary at trade deadlines, improve organizational facilities and systems, hire front office talent, etc.

 

Basically, it would be nice to have a bigger/looser budget.

[jaysblue]

I dunno but they sucked since the early 2000's, and that stopped in 2015

 

There was a lot of buzz surrounding the team in 2002, with Eric Hinske winning ROY and some young talent breaking through like Josh Phelps, Orlando Hudson, Vernon Wells and Roy Halladay. Things were looking promising.

 

2003: was a good season, and I admit was a fun season to watch. They had a great lineup led by both Delgado and Wells, along with a decent supporting cast. Doc won the Cy Young that season, Escobar looked like he was emerging as a solid SP (sucks he was a FA after). A lot of rookies from 2002 underperformed like Hinske and Phelps unfortunately.

 

2004: was a mess and that was the first season with the new uniforms. Lineup was riddled by injuries, the rotation was awful, all the BP arms JPR brought in imploded, Doc missed a lot of time as well.

 

2005: which looked like it could have been worse (with Delgado leaving a FA) actually wasn't that bad. The 2005 pitching was solid. Doc looked like he was in the best form that season, and a lock for the AL Cy Young, until Kevin Mench. Towers, Chacin and Scott Downs pitched well in the second half after Doc got injured, and the bullpen was solid as well. The lineup was pretty bad though.

 

2006: the Jays had one of the best teams under the JPR regime. They had a huge offseason, bringing in Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Overbay and Molina. The lineup was stacked in 2006 - Glaus and Wells were kind of reminiscent of Delgado/Wells in 2003. Overbay looked like he was an emerging star, Rios finally had his breakout, Reed Johnson posted a 4.4 WAR and was one of the better leadoff hitters in the AL, Catalanatto had his best season with the Jays as well. Pitching wise, the rotation was a mess: missing Burnett for the first two months was tough, Towers and Chacin couldn't repeat 2005 and were garbage, they didn't have any depth to call upon. Defensively as well, Adams was terrible, and Glaus was a statue at the hot corner.

 

2007: Things weren't that great at the beginning when they had a rotation that consisted of Chacin, Victor Zambrano, Tomo Ohka, John Thompson, Josh Towers for the first two months of the season. BJ Ryan got injured which was a big blow, though they still had a solid BP surprisingly with the emergence of Jeremy Accardo lol. Gotta say, it was fun watching both Dustin McGowan and Shaun Marcum develop and come into their own as pitchers, which made 2008 look very promising of a rotation featuring Doc, Burnett, McGowan and Marcum. Lineup wise, Rios and Hill both had fantastic years, Frank Thomas was pretty solid people tend to forget, and Matt Stairs came out of nowhere. Injuries played a part as well (Glaus was banged up, Overbay broken wrist, Wells became injury prone, Reed Johnson battled injuries and sucked).

 

2008: the Jays in my opinion this season had the best pitching staff that comes to mind. I always said if they managed to make the postseason, with the way Doc and Burnett were pitching, they could have been dangerous. I was really excited for Opening Day that season: a rotation that featured Doc, a healthy Burnett, McGowan, and Marcum had a lot of promise. The lineup was non-existent however unfortunately (Thomas sucked, they were running out Brad Wilkerson, Shannon Stewart, Kevin Mench, David Eckstein, Rod Barajas). Overbay never returned to form. A big hit was losing McGowan and Marcum to injuries, which didn't make things look that bright for 2009 on the pitching side, especially with Burnett opting out.

 

2009: was a depressing year, with the Doc trade rumours, awful pitching staff. Was fun watching Adam Lind and Aaron Hill with the seasons they had, as well as Marco Scutaro. Jose Bautista had that awesome September, the Jays did get EE and Zach Stewart (who everyone was raving about) for Scott Rolen. And I gotta admit, it was funny how so many posters on here thought Randy Ruiz was the next Babe Ruth lol.

 

The 2000's weren't that bad as many people make them out to be and as a Jays fan, there were some good times and bad times. The Jays played in a tough era, where the AL East was dominated by both the Yankees and the Red Sox. As well, they had some bad luck with injuries and some key players underperform which definitely hindered their success at times. Overall, the fans that say 2015 was their only best year are correct to some extent, though I guess they just became fans and hopped on the bandwagon that summer. I've been following the Jays since the early 2000's, as many other prominent posters on here have, so we've seen the good and the bad. Yes there was some good, though the casuals never flocked the Rogers Centre and never were behind the team. They missed some good baseball (watching Delgado, Wells in his prime, Doc being the best pitcher of the decade), which was their loss. So for us fans who have been following the Jays, the 2015 and 2016 seasons are even more rewarding than it is for casual fans who have just hopped on the bandwagon, as we actually appreciate the current team on the field and the baseball that is being played.

 

Sorry for the long rant, but I hate bandwagon fans who have just hopped on board last season! GO JAYS GO!!!!

[baseballsss]

I'm not really interested in increasing the payroll either but it would be cool to have more discretionary funds to pursue elite prospects, international free agents, take on salary at trade deadlines, improve organizational facilities and systems, hire front office talent, etc.

 

Basically, it would be nice to have a bigger/looser budget.

 

100% agree but people in this thread are saying 170 and what not. Not sure if they ment specifically for the reasons you mentioned.

 

I bet if Shapiro went to rogers and said that we need 10 mil for a trade at the deadline and would really benefit the team Rogers wouldn't say no. AA always said money was never an issue with Rogers and I really don't see that it was based on who we signed and traded for last year.

[Krylian]

It's kind of funny actually because MLB payrolls outgrew significant influence from in-person attendance long ago. The two things are just out of scale.

 

The difference between a 25k average attendance and 40k attendance might end up being, what, $10M in added payroll? Some number like that.

 

Large payroll changes are driven by TV contracts now.

 

The Blue Jays already make out like bandits with the market and TV rights structure. The attendance thing previously was just an excuse not to have a top payroll. Now they have one less excuse, basically.

 

That's what I was getting at. I'm not expecting any upward movement. And I'm curious to hear what the reason will be going forward for why they can't expand to $170-180M.

[West Texas Forever]

Good. Let's see how Rogers reacts with payroll.

 

This comment always makes me laugh, Rogers can do whatever they want with their money, if you get a $20k raise a year does that mean I am aloud to tell you to spend $19k of it every year on a higher mortgage or buy a new car asap? Ridiculous.

[Krylian]

I'm not really interested in increasing the payroll either but it would be cool to have more discretionary funds to pursue elite prospects, international free agents, take on salary at trade deadlines, improve organizational facilities and systems, hire front office talent, etc.

 

Basically, it would be nice to have a bigger/looser budget.

 

Agreed. It's frustrating when the reason for not acquiring player X is because of "payroll parameters". If player X isn't acquired I don't want it to be because we can't go above $140M.

 

I would also love to see the Jays change their IFA philosophy and start being more aggressive. They were starting to do that under AA, although not enough for my liking...and I fear it'll take a step back with Shapiro. The Yanks, Red Sox, Cubbies, Dodgers, Braves...all have recently blown their collective wads in the IFA market and blasted their budgets out of the water to sign as many high ceiling kids as they could get their hands on. Would love for the budget to be there for the Jays to do the same every so often.

[Krylian]

100% agree but people in this thread are saying 170 and what not. Not sure if they ment specifically for the reasons you mentioned.

 

I bet if Shapiro went to rogers and said that we need 10 mil for a trade at the deadline and would really benefit the team Rogers wouldn't say no. AA always said money was never an issue with Rogers and I really don't see that it was based on who we signed and traded for last year.

 

I want the flexibility to be there. If there is talent available that makes the team better and they really like it, I want them to be able to spend more...not saying they have to...but I want it to be up to their discretion if they feel if makes the team better. Feels like there's a hard cap at 140 right now. I don't like hard caps.

[Laika]

This comment always makes me laugh, Rogers can do whatever they want with their money, if you get a $20k raise a year does that mean I am aloud to tell you to spend $19k of it every year on a higher mortgage or buy a new car asap? Ridiculous.

 

It's the entertainment industry. It's reasonable to expect some reinvestment into the product.

[West Texas Forever]

It's the entertainment industry. It's reasonable to expect some reinvestment into the product.

 

Current payroll is 11th in the league, what do you want them to add $100million and be retarded like the Dodgers?

[Krylian]

It's the entertainment industry. It's reasonable to expect some reinvestment into the product.

 

Of course they can spend their money however they want, but when so much of your business if predicated on your customers giving a s*** about your product, you'd better make it a product worth caring about. If they're handicapping their ability to succeed (as they have for 20+ years) the numbers will suffer...as the attendance numbers have for almost that long. There was even talk about the Jays being moved many years ago. Don't know if it was anything past the discussion stage, but the fact that it was even raised shows that your fanbase being apathetic is poison to a franchise.

 

Show the fans that you're serious about winning, and not just turning a profit and they'll support you. No better example of this can be provided than what's happened here in the past 365 days since AA went nuclear and added everyone under the sun for a playoff run....and what's happened with fan support since then.

[West Texas Forever]

I would love a winning team for 5 years or whatever but I am a diehard fan and go to roughly 20 home games a year and a few on the road for the past decade, a sub .500 team doesn't bother me enough to stop going, I couldn't care less about the Cityplace brajs that now fill the dome if they left if the team started to suck again, more legroom for me.

[glory]

I'm not really interested in increasing the payroll either but it would be cool to have more discretionary funds to pursue elite prospects, international free agents, take on salary at trade deadlines, improve organizational facilities and systems, hire front office talent, etc.

 

Basically, it would be nice to have a bigger/looser budget.

 

That's basically it. They don't need a payroll increase to improve the team, they need it to improve the organization. That comes with signing Cuban/Japanese FA's, or improving the farm system, or having available cash to add talent when necessary during the season, etc. Increasing payroll so they can afford Bautista, or whatever narrative the casual fans want to go with, won't accomplish anything positive for the org.

 

The Jays have smart people working in their front office. They can win with the payroll where it is now. If Rogers increases it, then great, but I don't think it's a prerequisite.

[baseballsss]

Of course they can spend their money however they want, but when so much of your business if predicated on your customers giving a s*** about your product, you'd better make it a product worth caring about. If they're handicapping their ability to succeed (as they have for 20+ years) the numbers will suffer...as the attendance numbers have for almost that long. There was even talk about the Jays being moved many years ago. Don't know if it was anything past the discussion stage, but the fact that it was even raised shows that your fanbase being apathetic is poison to a franchise.

 

Show the fans that you're serious about winning, and not just turning a profit and they'll support you. No better example of this can be provided than what's happened here in the past 365 days since AA went nuclear and added everyone under the sun for a playoff run....and what's happened with fan support since then.

 

To be fair it's usually the GM and people who work under him that handicap the ability to win. Billy Beane and Friedman were successful under basically nothing as their payroll.

 

The Jays have right now a $140 million, the Rays had what 60 million? You make stupid moves( San diego and Arizona) you aren't going to win. You make smart moves(Cubs and Cardinals) you will win.

[burlingtonbandit]

That's basically it. They don't need a payroll increase to improve the team, they need it to improve the organization. That comes with signing Cuban/Japanese FA's, or improving the farm system, or having available cash to add talent when necessary during the season, etc. Increasing payroll so they can afford Bautista, or whatever narrative the casual fans want to go with, won't accomplish anything positive for the org.

 

The Jays have smart people working in their front office. They can win with the payroll where it is now. If Rogers increases it, then great, but I don't think it's a prerequisite.

 

A higher payroll would improve the team.... Saying the FO is smart and can win with a lower payroll is not a good reason to have the owners keeping all the fans $.

[Laika]

That's basically it. They don't need a payroll increase to improve the team, they need it to improve the organization. That comes with signing Cuban/Japanese FA's, or improving the farm system, or having available cash to add talent when necessary during the season, etc. Increasing payroll so they can afford Bautista, or whatever narrative the casual fans want to go with, won't accomplish anything positive for the org.

 

The Jays have smart people working in their front office. They can win with the payroll where it is now. If Rogers increases it, then great, but I don't think it's a prerequisite.

 

Yeah and I trust Shatkins to operate efficiently no matter what the payroll is so increasing it would obviously be good.

 

With a guy like AA, a higher payroll probably makes him a worse GM.

[G-Snarls]

Yeah and I trust Shatkins to operate efficiently no matter what the payroll is so increasing it would obviously be good.

 

With a guy like AA, a higher payroll probably makes him a worse GM.

 

Do you predict eventual success for Friedman and AA with the Dodgers?

[RealAccountant]

Rogers betrayed the man who put the Jays back on the baseball map, oh how things were rescued by the great AA

[Krylian]

Do you predict eventual success for Friedman and AA with the Dodgers?

 

I do. Because they've sunk a lot of money into their Farm System. They'll start to see some real gains there over the next few years.

[Laika]

Do you predict eventual success for Friedman and AA with the Dodgers?

 

I don't think AA will last there long term. I think his personality will clash.

 

But I think the Dodgers will be great.

[Atothe]

Didn't Shapiro and Co just signed a ton of IFAs? I'm confused, that wasn't they're m.o in Cleveland. They're already doing stuff they never did in Cleveland. Please stop with the biases