"Pitch to contact"

[Tester]

I love Stroman, but you have to believe that he's being way too predictable with his pitches. Majority of his 2 strike counts have been 2seam/slider down and away, and his sinker in those situations has gotten zero whiffs.

 

More on the catcher. Plus just because you have an idea what's coming doesn't mean you can hit it.

[BTS]

The same people losing their minds about Stroman having a low strikeout rate after 4 games are the same to crucify anyone else who uses a SSS to back up their argument.

 

Sad

 

He's thrown 28 innings with 15 strikeouts and a 6.6 swinging strike %. Nobody is losing their minds, but the results matter a bit, and they've been poor.

[Sammy225]

He's thrown 28 innings with 15 strikeouts and a 6.6 swinging strike %. Nobody is losing their minds, but the results matter a bit, and they've been poor.

 

Are you saying i should trade him off.

[baseballsss]

Nothing is wrong with GB's. The problem is less K's.

 

Some people in the thread are saying it's not about his K's and other people are saying BABIP?

 

Just trying to understand...

[King]

He's thrown 28 innings with 15 strikeouts and a 6.6 swinging strike %. Nobody is losing their minds, but the results matter a bit, and they've been poor.

 

Stroman has stated that this is the type of pitcher he is now as opposed to the high strikeout guy he was in the minors. He's obviously had a philosophy change, somewhere along the way.

 

Buehrle was probably barking in his ear Stromans entire career about pitching to contact and getting deep into games.

[BigCecil]

I'd give my left nut to see Stro throw a 2 strike 94-95 MPH 4S FB upstairs for a swing and miss K again. Then go back to pounding the zone down. It would make both his FBs and other pitches more effective.

[Brownie19]

Stroman has stated that this is the type of pitcher he is now as opposed to the high strikeout guy he was in the minors. He's obviously had a philosophy change, somewhere along the way.

 

Buehrle was probably barking in his ear Stromans entire career about pitching to contact and getting deep into games.

 

I don't F'ing get why he can't do a bit of both...

[RealAccountant]

Stros first 4 starts were TB NY Bos bal

 

Let's wait till be faces some bad lineups

[burlingtonbandit]

The funny thing is that if he could miss more bats his pitch count would be even lower. There's times where guys just continue to foul off 2 strike pitches because everything is low. If he could strike more guys out he would be even more efficient.

[Grant77]

Stroman has stated that this is the type of pitcher he is now as opposed to the high strikeout guy he was in the minors. He's obviously had a philosophy change, somewhere along the way.

 

Buehrle was probably barking in his ear Stromans entire career about pitching to contact and getting deep into games.

 

My 2 cents on the issue is that he's taking advantage of the top infield defense in the league. I don't see why it's such a problem for people. He can pull out the K stuff when he needs it, the skills are still there.

[Governator]

I'd give my left nut to see Stro throw a 2 strike 94-95 MPH 4S FB upstairs for a swing and miss K again. Then go back to pounding the zone down. It would make both his FBs and other pitches more effective.

 

I don't F'ing get why he can't do a bit of both...

 

The funny thing is that if he could miss more bats his pitch count would be even lower. There's times where guys just continue to foul off 2 strike pitches because everything is low. If he could strike more guys out he would be even more efficient.

 

Can't agree more really. Might be weird to throw 4 seamer as an out pitch but you got to reach in to your bag of tricks at some point and sit guys down. The only pitcher who should be throwing the same pitch every single time is RA Dickey.

[burlingtonbandit]

My 2 cents on the issue is that he's taking advantage of the top infield defense in the league. I don't see why it's such a problem for people. He can pull out the K stuff when he needs it, the skills are still there.

 

I think people are concerned because this isn't happening. When he needs a strikeout he still isn't getting them like the Wieters and Hardy ABs yesterday.

[Tester]

Can't agree more really. Might be weird to throw 4 seamer as an out pitch but you got to reach in to your bag of tricks at some point and sit guys down. The only pitcher who should be throwing the same pitch every single time is RA Dickey.

 

Slow knuckler

Medium knuckler

Fast knuckler

[Angrioter]

Are you saying i should trade him off.

 

DDL or BBDL - Yes

LOD - No (GB% rate)

[THANOS]

I think people are concerned because this isn't happening. When he needs a strikeout he still isn't getting them like the Wieters and Hardy ABs yesterday.

 

This. He continues to opt for 2SM even in 0-2 counts.

[Angrioter]

Stroman 4/19/2016 against O's

 

Vs

 

Weaver 4/16/2016 against Twins

[Grant77]

I think people are concerned because this isn't happening. When he needs a strikeout he still isn't getting them like the Wieters and Hardy ABs yesterday.

 

I'm willing to give it more time. To me it seems like a pitch selection issue and not a loss of strikeout stuff.

[BigCecil]

Here are 2 youtube videos of some of Stro's 2014 highlights:

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&qpvt=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&view=detail&mid=86330652FEC6AB3B749886330652FEC6AB3B7498&FORM=VRDGAR

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&qpvt=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&view=detail&mid=04163423E3441D4CF51704163423E3441D4CF517&rvsmid=86330652FEC6AB3B749886330652FEC6AB3B7498&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV

[Atothe]

Stroman isn't as good as I thought he would be. If this continues then he's looking like a 3rd/4th starter

[THANOS]

Here are 2 youtube videos of some of Stro's 2014 highlights:

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&qpvt=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&view=detail&mid=86330652FEC6AB3B749886330652FEC6AB3B7498&FORM=VRDGAR

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&qpvt=marcus+stroman+2014+video+strikout&view=detail&mid=04163423E3441D4CF51704163423E3441D4CF517&rvsmid=86330652FEC6AB3B749886330652FEC6AB3B7498&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV

 

That guy could have easily become a >9 K/9 starter in a year or two. This Stro...

[BTS]

I'm willing to give it more time. To me it seems like a pitch selection issue and not a loss of strikeout stuff.

 

I don't think anyone thinks this is a stuff issue. He should and most likely will be a 7/2 K/BB guy with elite GB rates. He just needs to make adjustments, because the current game plan isn't working.

[burlingtonbandit]

One thing I notice while watching those videos is his breaking ball hasn't looked nearly as good as it did in 2014. His curveball had such nice break to it and he commanded it in a perfect spot. This year it seems like he either bounces it or hangs it way too often.

 

And it pains me to say it but Navarro was the much better game caller than Martin even though he was a horrible pitch framer.

[burlingtonbandit]

That guy could have easily become a >9 K/9 starter in a year or two. This Stro...

 

I don't think he has that ability. Even in 2014 when he was really good he only had 1 month where he had more than 8 K/9.

[BigCecil]

One thing I notice while watching those videos is his breaking ball hasn't looked nearly as good as it did in 2014. His curveball had such nice break to it and he commanded it in a perfect spot. This year it seems like he either bounces it or hangs it way too often.

 

And it pains me to say it but Navarro was the much better game caller than Martin even though he was a horrible pitch framer.

 

I hadn't watched his 2014 highlights and was going from memory and fangraphs only. Watching the videos today (keeping in mind these are "highlights") I was struck by how good his stuff looked compared to his last start. Also liked the use of 4S FB touching 94/95 well located.

[THANOS]

I don't think he has that ability. Even in 2014 when he was really good he only had 1 month where he had more than 8 K/9.

 

All in due time. Look at Kluber and Kershaw's strikeout numbers in their 1st years, neither were over 9 K/9. Stroman struck out nearly 11 K/9 in the MiLB so he has the ability, just the wrong philosophy now.

[THANOS]

I hadn't watched his 2014 highlights and was going from memory and fangraphs only. Watching the videos today (keeping in mind these are "highlights") I was struck by how good his stuff looked compared to his last start. Also liked the use of 4S FB touching 94/95 well located.

 

That's the problem with always try to locate down for contact, there's a higher likelihood of bouncing his off-speed stuff and it's easier to lay off regardless, since it's all down.

[burlingtonbandit]

All in due time. Look at Kluber and Kershaw's strikeout numbers in their 1st years, neither were over 9 K/9. Stroman struck out nearly 11 K/9 in the MiLB so he has the ability, just the wrong philosophy now.

 

It would take a major increase in raw stuff for Stroman to just double his strikeout rate and considering his body size I can't see that happening. Kershaw introduced one of the best pitchers in his slider which helped the K rate surge and Kluber always had a whiff rate over 10%, I don't see how they compare to Stroman.

 

I think Stroman can get his K/9 in the 7 range maybe even approach 8 but it seems unrealistic to expect it to jump up over 9.

[BigCecil]

That's the problem with always try to locate down for contact, there's a higher likelihood of bouncing his off-speed stuff and it's easier to lay off regardless, since it's all down.

 

His breaking ball was electric to LHH down and in. Swing and Miss. Its in part set up by his 4 seamer up. Hitters have to respect that pitch which makes them more apt to chase down low.

[KingKat]

because the current game plan isn't working.

 

Except that it sort of is working or at least giving the illusion of working. If Stroman keeps right on the edge of the quality start threshold, it will reinforce the idea that his approach is the right one.

[bones10]

Except that it sort of is working or at least giving the illusion of working. If Stroman keeps right on the edge of the quality start threshold, it will reinforce the idea that his approach is the right one.

 

Well he's lined up for Oakland and Tampa starts, pretty weak hitting teams - this trend may continue for a little while longer atleast.