"Pitch to contact"

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't think you have to overhaul his philosophy or anything. Just throw a few more 4 seams up in the zone. Even if you throw it for a ball it should be effective because it changes the hitters eye level.

 

Right now it seems like hitters can just key in low in the zone. Its a easier to hit if you only have to worry about half of the strikezone.

[THANOS]

I don't think you have to overhaul his philosophy or anything. Just throw a few more 4 seams up in the zone. Even if you throw it for a ball it should be effective because it changes the hitters eye level.

 

Right now it seems like hitters can just key in low in the zone. Its a easier to hit if you only have to worry about half of the strikezone.

 

Especially, given that hitters are still rocking some of his 2SM fastballs.

[burlingtonbandit]

Especially, given that hitters are still rocking some of his 2SM fastballs.

 

That Machado AB was pretty telling. Sinker was actually just below the strikezone and he still hit it out even though it had great movement. Now obviously not many people on the planet can hit like Machado but still.

[RealAccountant]

Yep.

 

 

Why would you sample size Halladay, and not compare it to his mid 2000s when his K rate was around 6. When he went to the National League he had 3-4 pitchers at bat, that alone would spike the K Rate up, facing pitchers vs. DH

 

NL K rates are incomparable to AL k rates for that reason alone.

[KingKat]

Why would you sample size Halladay, and not compare it to his mid 2000s when his K rate was around 6. When he went to the National League he had 3-4 pitchers at bat, that alone would spike the K Rate up, facing pitchers vs. DH

 

NL K rates are incomparable to AL k rates for that reason alone.

 

Two of those season are in the AL and K rates are comparable. In fact 2009 Blue Jays and 2010 Phillies are nearly identical.

[jimmygibbssr]

has he been throwing his change up more this year? I thought that was supposedly his worst pitch but yet he seems to be throwing it a lot.

2014 he threw it like 7% of the time I think. 2015 and 2016 hes hovering around 10-12%. I think.

[burlingtonbandit]

has he been throwing his change up more this year? I thought that was supposedly his worst pitch but yet he seems to be throwing it a lot.

 

He's actually gotten a lot of whiffs on it (17%) which was surprising because by watching I thought its been really bad. But when guys have made contact they've smoked it (50% LD rate).

[Boxcar]

Yep.

 

 

Ugh, doc was a f***ing beauty. Miss that guy.

[THANOS]

He's actually gotten a lot of whiffs on it (17%) which was surprising because by watching I thought its been really bad. But when guys have made contact they've smoked it (50% LD rate).

 

Yep, it's all in location. When he tosses it slightly below the strike zone he gets whiffs, when it's centre-cut it loses it's drop and becomes a meatball.

[bones10]

Guys he isn't going to average 4.5K the entire year. The guy isn't dumb. He's experimenting with something. He obviously has the talent to switch it up to his old approach if this crashes and burns.

 

Jesus calm down

 

It's still worth pointing out.

 

Because it sounds like hes getting advice from Pat Tabler and Buck Martinez.

[baloojayz]

Would be nice to see him locate and get ahead with the 4 seam and then use the change up/2 seam to get guys out rather than whatever he's doing now, but at the same time the 2 seam is generating a lot of weak contact for him atm.

 

Once he throws the 2 seam early in the count it's hard to go to anything else b/c hitters are locked in low and won't chase high 4sm / will rock it if he misses because it has no movement in comparison to the 2 sm. I think that's why he traps himself a bit. Tries to use that spin rate all the time.

[RealAccountant]

Classic doc was 2003-2007 Doc.

[BlueJayWay]

Guys he isn't going to average 4.5K the entire year. The guy isn't dumb. He's experimenting with something. He obviously has the talent to switch it up to his old approach if this crashes and burns.

 

Jesus calm down

I believe this is what Stroman is doing. I hope. He's shown he has the ability to get Ks. A long term strategy of 4.5 Ks per 9 isn't going to cut it.

[Brownie19]

People forget how good Roy Halladay was. People have short memory. Roy Halladay, over a span of 5 years averaged 6 WAR in the toughest division in baseball, and arguably the toughest hitting division in the history of baseball. That was when Redsox and Yankees had those monster lineups, As good as Kershaw has been over 5 years, Hallday was just as good and he wasn't pitching to the Padres and the Daimondhacks.

 

Those were Yankees and Redsox lineups that had 5-6 superstars, and the amount of hittting talent was greatly skewed into the AL East.

 

And in the best year of his career (Phillies, 2011, 8.3 WAR, lowest ERA, FIP & xFIP of his career) he had a career high K/9 of 8.47...

[Brownie19]

Classic doc was 2003-2007 Doc.

 

Um...2004, 2006 & 2007 were the worst years of his career.

[Brownie19]

Yep, it's all in location. When he tosses it slightly below the strike zone he gets whiffs, when it's centre-cut it loses it's drop and becomes a meatball.

 

As someone already pointed out - sinkers to flyball hitters = bad. It's physics. I don't think it's too much to simply ask him to shake it up a bit. Push for the K when you need it, use the 4 seamer vs. flyball hitters, etc.

[Brownie19]

Two of those season are in the AL and K rates are comparable. In fact 2009 Blue Jays and 2010 Phillies are nearly identical.

 

whoa whoa whoa....easy with all those facts Kat.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Stro leading the league in innings pitched! On pace to give us around 240 innings! What a horse!

[RealAccountant]

And in the best year of his career (Phillies, 2011, 8.3 WAR, lowest ERA, FIP & xFIP of his career) he had a career high K/9 of 8.47...

 

That K rate is inflated from facing worse competition, and the pitcher spot 3 times a game.

 

Would you agree a pitcher is more likely to strike out than a DH.

 

Strikeouts also a key driver of FIP XFIP numbers

 

NL FIPS and XFIPS are Inaccurate for this reason alone.

 

Look at the DHs in the AL, Ortiz, EE, Victor Martinez

 

The DH is usually one of the best hitters in the lineup. in the NL They face the pitcher who is unarguably the worst hitter in the lineup

 

How many times during that year did he strikeout the opposite teams pitcher that year? replace that in his K Rate with the average K rate of the DH in the AL that year, and you will surely lead to the same K Rate in his AL Days.

 

Not to mention that in most NL teams, the 8th hitter is usually also a terrible hitter.

[King]

Stro leading the league in innings pitched! On pace to give us around 240 innings! What a horse!

 

240 innings of junk

[BigCecil]

Guys he isn't going to average 4.5K the entire year. The guy isn't dumb. He's experimenting with something. He obviously has the talent to switch it up to his old approach if this crashes and burns.

 

Jesus calm down

 

Stro and Martin have forgotten more about baseball than the collective intel of this entire board.

 

While I am concerned about his low K rate, and I would like to see him use his 4S FB upstairs more, I'm confident they have the desire; talent and brains to figure it out.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

The same people losing their minds about Stroman having a low strikeout rate after 4 games are the same to crucify anyone else who uses a SSS to back up their argument.

 

Sad

[Angrioter]

The same people losing their minds about Stroman having a low strikeout rate after 4 games are the same to crucify anyone else who uses a SSS to back up their argument.

 

Sad

 

It's not about Stroman low K rate, its about Stroman' new approach called "Babip-weak contact"

[intentional wok]

The same people losing their minds about Stroman having a low strikeout rate after 4 games are the same to crucify anyone else who uses a SSS to back up their argument.

 

Sad

 

It's a SSS, yeah, but I think the annoyance is less that Stro can't K guys, but that he doesn't appear to be trying to.

[baseballsss]

It's a SSS, yeah, but I think the annoyance is less that Stro can't K guys, but that he doesn't appear to be trying to.

 

What's wrong with taking advantage of an elite defence behind him? Yah I get at certain types of players you should change your approach but whats so wrong about GBs?

[Cyborg]

What's wrong with taking advantage of an elite defence behind him? Yah I get at certain types of players you should change your approach but whats so wrong about GBs?

Nothing is wrong with GB's. The problem is less K's.

[burlingtonbandit]

Its not like Stroman has to completely change everything. All people are asking is he become less predictable. Instead of throwing everything down in the zone he should change the hitters eye level and throw a few 4 seams up. Stroman has said he tires to make hitters off balance and thats why he has tried the quick pitch so I don't see why he would balk at the idea of throwing more 4 seams to get hitters thinking about something else.

 

It also might very well be a case he just isn't pitching as well as he did in 2014. It could be just his off speed pitchers aren't as good as they were before.

[StroShow]

What's wrong with taking advantage of an elite defence behind him? Yah I get at certain types of players you should change your approach but whats so wrong about GBs?

 

I love Stroman, but you have to believe that he's being way too predictable with his pitches. Majority of his 2 strike counts have been 2seam/slider down and away, and his sinker in those situations has gotten zero whiffs.

[THANOS]

It's not about Stroman low K rate, its about Stroman' new approach called "Babip-weak contact"

 

Exactly, We're more concerned because Stroman himself has been quoted as saying that this is his new approach.

[Tester]

1-Waino 3.86

2-MPerez 4.42

3-Harvey 4.47

4-Stroman 4.75

5-Roark 4.76

6-Zimmermann 4.85

 

...maybe this is the new market inefficiency

 

Maybe it's still the middle of April?