Edwin not happy with term on Jays offer

[ValiantJaysFan]

Harper would never sign with the Yankees. He wouldn't cut his hair or be clean shaven. All he talks about is his hair.

 

$40+ million a year might convince him to get a haircut.

[burlingtonbandit]

Imagine how many HR Harper would hit with the short porch and playing in the AL East.

[gbill2004]

Imagine how many HR Harper would hit with the short porch and playing in the AL East.

Everyone always says that, but rarely do the monster numbers actually materialize.

[Angrioter]

Imagine how many HR Harper would hit with the short porch and playing in the AL East.

 

How many games would win Pedro Martinez pitching for a better team than the Expos?

[Jonn]

$40+ million a year might convince him to get a haircut.

 

Other teams can offer that money and let him be himself.

[burlingtonbandit]

Everyone always says that, but rarely do the monster numbers actually materialize.

 

Yeah true. Donaldson was one guy to do it though, be it he came from a much worse hitting environment than Washington.

[RealAccountant]

Not sure why the Blue Jays would offer more than 2-3 years to either of these guys (EE and JB) right now.

 

yeah .900 OPS guys grown on trees. pfff anyone knows that.

[Praxis]

We had better enjoy this year, because after this season it is going to be a long, cold winter.

[Stangstag]

We had better enjoy this year, because after this season it is going to be a long, cold winter.

 

Not really though. At least it will be nicer around here with with you giving up following the team.

[Praxis]

Not really though. At least it will be nicer around here with with you giving up following the team.

 

I have been supporting this team for over 25 years and will not stop now simply because I am not a stats nerd, part of the swarm or am unwilling to hail Shapiro and Atkins as the smartest FO that has ever existed on Canadian soil before a meaningful pitch has been thrown.

 

Further seeing Edwin and JB walk, while it may make great business and statistical sense to those huddled in robes in dark corners of this forum as part of the new initiated Shatkins Cult, will not do much to stop the public relations s*** storm that will inevitably follow or the loss of confidence in the organization throughout baseball as one that is unwilling to do what it takes financially to build a winner.

[Spanky99]

Uhmm... Your cart's a couple f***ing miles before your horse!!

[BTS]

Further seeing Edwin and JB walk, while it may make great business and statistical sense to those huddled in robes in dark corners of this forum as part of the new initiated Shatkins Cult, will not do much to stop the public relations s*** storm that will inevitably follow or the loss of confidence in the organization throughout baseball as one that is unwilling to do what it takes financially to build a winner.

 

None of this matters. Declining to give Edwin 100M or Bautista 150M will anger the casual fans for a few months, but avoiding such an obvious landmine will improve the team on the field in the long, and possibly short, term. That's ultimately all anyone cares about. There will be new stars to cheer for. Remember how upset everyone was Melky wasn't retained?

[Governator]

Why do people constantly feel like the Jays future is doom and gloom because 2 old sluggers won't be returning? Do you think the annual money the Jays are willing to spend on them will be spent on replacement level scrubs?

[BTS]

Why do people constantly feel like the Jays future is doom and gloom because 2 old sluggers won't be returning? Do you think the annual money the Jays are willing to spend on them will be spent on replacement level scrubs?

 

I don't understand how someone can be interested enough in baseball to seek out this forum and start posting but still not be aware that the money it will apparently take to retain these guys is almost certainly better spent elsewhere.

[Governator]

I don't understand how someone can be interested enough in baseball to seek out this forum and start posting but still not be aware that the money it will apparently take to retain these guys is almost certainly better spent elsewhere.

 

 

because the bat flip, or something.

[Spanky99]

Why do people constantly feel like the Jays future is doom and gloom because 2 old sluggers won't be returning? Do you think the annual money the Jays are willing to spend on them will be spent on replacement level scrubs?

 

Click on my post... reply with quote,

[Sammy225]

Didn't Shapiro basically come out and say that he sees this as Donaldson and Tulos team going forward......

[HERPDERP]

Didn't Shapiro basically come out and say that he sees this as Donaldson and Tulos team going forward......

 

our pres is blatantly reacist

[Stangstag]

because the bat flip, or something.

 

Pay the man whatever he wants!!! Rite guyz?

[glory]

Pay the man whatever he wants!!! Rite guyz?

 

(Standing ovation)

[BigCecil]

I have been supporting this team for over 25 years and will not stop now simply because I am not a stats nerd, part of the swarm or am unwilling to hail Shapiro and Atkins as the smartest FO that has ever existed on Canadian soil before a meaningful pitch has been thrown.

 

Further seeing Edwin and JB walk, while it may make great business and statistical sense to those huddled in robes in dark corners of this forum as part of the new initiated Shatkins Cult, will not do much to stop the public relations s*** storm that will inevitably follow or the loss of confidence in the organization throughout baseball as one that is unwilling to do what it takes financially to build a winner.

 

Few want to see Edwin and/or Jose go but:

 

1. Being truly competitive and winning long term will make people forgot them, AA and Price.

 

2. With the money we save not signing them we will invest in other above replacement level assets that provide better overall value.

 

3. They leave a parting legacy of 2 picks at a minimum when they walk.

[Atothe]

Didn't Shapiro basically come out and say that he sees this as Donaldson and Tulos team going forward......

 

Which is even more dumb. Tulo is injury prone and Donaldson is gonna be old when he reaches free agency. No point in committing to either long term if you don't have to.

[Praxis]

Assuming it will be spent.

 

And this is precisely the problem. Those already heavily invested in the Shatkins cult argue that the Jays will invest the money saved from EE/JB elsewhere. This is a specious argument based on simple but faulty logic.

 

Casuals may be annoying to some on here perhaps, but Shapiro has said that bums in seats might mean more money spent on payroll in the future. What if those same casuals, pissed off at seeing EE/JB leave, don't show up any more or buy their merchandise? Does that mean the reverse will become true and there would be less money to spend on payroll? You would have to assume so.

 

Plus if the team is shedding potentially large veteran contracts and presumably going into rebuild mode yet again, why would the new FO put serious money into other high profile veteran FA contracts? It simply wouldn't make sense. It would seem more likely that we would yet again go into another death spiral ending up in 15,000-20,000 fans per game and $80-100m payrolls for the foreseeable future as replacement level scrubs filled the gaps. Then we would look more like the Cleveland Indians.

[CrackerJack]

And this is precisely the problem. Those already heavily invested in the Shatkins cult argue that the Jays will invest the money saved from EE/JB elsewhere. This is a specious argument based on simple but faulty logic.

 

Casuals may be annoying to some on here perhaps, but Shapiro has said that bums in seats might mean more money spent on payroll in the future. What if those same casuals, pissed off at seeing EE/JB leave, don't show up any more or buy their merchandise? Does that mean the reverse will become true and there will be less money to spend on payroll? You would have to assume so. Plus if the team is shedding potentially large veteran contracts and presumably going into rebuild mode yet again, why would the new FO put serious money into other high profile veteran FA contracts? It simply wouldn't make sense.

 

It would make more sense that we would yet again go into another death spiral ending up in 15,000-20,000 fans per game and $80-100m payrolls for the foreseeable future. Then we would look like the Cleveland Indians.

 

Alex's parting gift to Rogers was doubling the number of season tickets and flex packs sold this season. So Alex set Shapiro up pretty nicely (haha) and it'll be interesting to see what happens to attendance on his watch ...

[Praxis]

I should also add for those in the Cult of Shatkins that the FA pool next year is absolutely s*****. Show me where the money will be spent on better players please.

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2017/

[Stangstag]

And this is precisely the problem. Those already heavily invested in the Shatkins cult argue that the Jays will invest the money saved from EE/JB elsewhere. This is a specious argument based on simple but faulty logic.

 

Casuals may be annoying to some on here perhaps, but Shapiro has said that bums in seats might mean more money spent on payroll in the future. What if those same casuals, pissed off at seeing EE/JB leave, don't show up any more or buy their merchandise? Does that mean the reverse will become true and there would be less money to spend on payroll? You would have to assume so.

 

Plus if the team is shedding potentially large veteran contracts and presumably going into rebuild mode yet again, why would the new FO put serious money into other high profile veteran FA contracts? It simply wouldn't make sense. It would seem more likely that we would yet again go into another death spiral ending up in 15,000-20,000 fans per game and $80-100m payrolls for the foreseeable future as replacement level scrubs filled the gaps. Then we would look more like the Cleveland Indians.

 

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and letting aging veterans walk/retooling the roster.

 

You don't seem to understand this.

 

Remember Boston in 2012? They got rid of Crawford, AGon, and Beckett. Then they signed a bunch of guys including Napoli, Victorino, Uehara, Ross, and ended up being a much better team. And they had the payroll flexibility NOW to sign Sandoval, Ramirez, and Price.

 

EDIT: Are the Dodgers stupid/cheap for letting Greinke walk?

[G-Snarls]

I should also add for those in the cult of Shatkins that the FA pool next year is absolutely s*****. Show me where the money will be spent on better players please.

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/potential-free-agents-for-2017/

 

Excellent point. EE and JB are the cream of the crop for free agents next year (if they don't get extended)

[Praxis]

There's a difference between "rebuilding" and letting aging veterans walk/retooling the roster.

 

You don't seem to understand this.

 

Remember Boston in 2012? They got rid of Crawford, AGon, and Beckett. Then they signed a bunch of guys including Napoli, Victorino, Uehara, Ross, and ended up being a much better team. And they had the payroll flexibility NOW to sign Sandoval, Ramirez, and Price.

 

EDIT: Are the Dodgers stupid/cheap for letting Greinke walk?

 

Boston and LA are also not operating under the payroll restrictions we are. Period. Plus see my above post on the FA 'class' of 2017 and tell me where the higher level replacements are.

[Sammy225]

Alex's parting gift to Rogers was doubling the number of season tickets and flex packs sold this season. So Alex set Shapiro up pretty nicely (haha) and it'll be interesting to see what happens to attendance on his watch ...

 

He also left him with a team that only a couple teams can afford (dodgers, Yanks). He can keep that group of players together in the lineup and hope to find cheap pitching like this year. Or He can sell off on some of the players that are going to cost him a small fortune. Shapiro has tough decisions to make and its easy say Alex set this team up so well when he is not the one who has to deal with it.

[Praxis]

He also left him with a team that only a couple teams can afford (dodgers, Yanks). He can keep that group of players together in the lineup and hope to find cheap pitching like this year. Or He can sell off on some of the players that are going to cost him a small fortune. Shapiro has tough decisions to make and its easy say Alex set this team up so well when he is not the one who has to deal with it.

 

This is also absolutely true. Shapiro and Atkins are being hamstrung, as AA was, by an ownership group worth billions that is content to let the Jays sit 14th in payroll in Major League Baseball. Ridiculous.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2016/