Kenta Maeda

[DuckDuckGose]

He doesn't deserve credit for getting good prospects for the best pitcher in baseball. Teams were lining up to hand over top prospects.

 

If you remember correctly Halladay had a no-trade clause and had limited himself to a couple teams of which the PHI were the only real trade partner. AA did a good job of getting value back with his back against the wall. He deserves some credit for that but that's not what I said. I said moist GM's don't make a deal that big in their career.

 

Alvarez was signed in 2006.

 

And AA had just come off his promotion from scouting director to AGM. He deserves some credit for that.

 

The Blue Jays landed multiple good prospects atop the 2010 draft because they had extra picks.

 

Are you complaining about that? It was an amazing strategy.

 

I said that the Tulowitzki and Donaldson trades don't make up for all the talent the Blue Jays lost in 2013.

 

JD and playoffs makes up for it. Every GM makes bad trades though.

 

It's hard to have a "conversation" if you're not addressing the real points other people make. Sure, the Jays built a good farm during 2010-2012.

 

No one has made a point other than to look at Shapiro's body of work in Cleveland. I find it ironic that you are trumpeting the same horn but failing to look at the entirety of AA's work the same way you do with Shapiro.

 

That's true. They did have a good farm. But you said that Tulowitzki and Donaldson make up for losing all those good young players. That's not true.

 

No I said the moves were only made possible because AA gamed the draft and international market until the rules were changed. I'm not denying he made a couple bad moves but every single year AA was at the helm the franchise took a step forward; which is exactly what you want from a GM.

 

The 2016 Jays shouldn't be as good as the 2016 Cubs

 

They'll certainly be close if they're not as good or better.

 

and I and others were actually more exciting about the Blue Jays situation during 2010-2012 since it seemed like they were adding good, cheap building blocks.

 

Well I was more excited for playoffs. Also JD FFS; the pinnacle of affordable building blocks.

 

He hasn't done anything yet to make someone believe that he is better than the previous GM. You're right about that. But his track record speaks volumes.

 

If he's as good as AA/Beeston we should all be happy. I believe he can and should be a little better than that duo and very much looking forward to watching the next few years unfold.

[glory]

This is what i am saying. The guy builds an excellent rotation without giving up anything or spending a boatload of money and people are hating on him.... Makes loads of f***ing sense

 

But what has he won lately? What about Cleveland's attendance?

 

Am I missing any of Bob McCown's arguments that Jays fans like to parrot nowadays?

[Sammy225]

But what has he won lately? What about Cleveland's attendance?

 

Am I missing any of Bob McCown's arguments that Jays fans like to parrot nowadays?

 

Bob McCown knows as much about baseball as i do about Soccer and i don't know s*** about soccer

[Abomination]

Bob McCown knows as much about baseball as i do about Soccer and i don't know s*** about soccer

 

Soccer is simple.

 

1) Be in shape.

2) If someone invades your personal space, fall down and roll around in pain.

3) Something about a ball.

[Spanky99]

Shapiro is a f***ing god send. It was one of the luckiest strokes in franchise history. We only ended up with Shapiro after Ed and his buddy tampered with Kenny Williams. Ed Rogers literally called one of Beeston's friends, Reinsdorf, to ask about Williams, who they already tampered with, not knowing that Beeston would find out immediately about the whole thing. And they lied to Reinsdorf by saying Beeston knew what was happening. Then they tried to trade prospects for f***ing Dan Duquette.

 

I'm sorry but I just can't trust Rogers in any capacity until they show me something. They lucked into Shapiro. But Shapiro has shown me something. I liked Alex but Shapiro is not an idiot. I'm thankful everyday that he's here.

 

If one thing is clear it's that Ed Rogers is a bumbling idiot

 

That was so embarrassing.

[glory]

Bob McCown knows as much about baseball as i do about Soccer and i don't know s*** about soccer

 

Unfortunately, many people in Toronto seem to value McCown's baseball intellect. I've seen his stupid arguments against Shapiro being posted in a lot of places. Luckily most people here seem to realize the Jays have it pretty good with Shapiro (doesn't mean it will guarantee success but at least we can be comfortable with who is running things).

[Laika]

I think... Shapiro is a minor upgrade on Beeston.

 

lol ok

 

I feel no compulsion to respond anymore aside from stating matter of factly that this quoted opinion is stupid.

 

I'd just like to circle back to this post and point out to you that PAUL BEESTON DIDN'T USE EMAIL IN THE YEAR 2015.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'd just like to circle back to this post and point out to you that PAUL BEESTON DIDN'T USE EMAIL IN THE YEAR 2015.

 

lol wat

[Laika]

pretty sure he didn't even use a computer

[BTS]

lmao @ Shapiro being a minor upgrade on Beeston

[burlingtonbandit]

pretty sure he didn't even use a computer

 

I don't think thats even possible. As an accountant he would have to know how to use programs like excel at the very least. How the f*** would you even do your job without a computer?

[Spanky99]

Beeston smoked stogies, regurgitated what his GM told him to say, not to mention Rogers, all while kicking his no socked shoes up on the table.

[Spanky99]

Same, goes for the Gillick days, he still has no f***ing clue, he's just pissed another retard didn't involve him on the new president.

[Spanky99]

I don't think thats even possible. As an accountant he would have to know how to use programs like excel at the very least. How the f*** would you even do your job without a computer?

 

He knew how to text.

[BTS]

I don't think thats even possible. As an accountant he would have to know how to use programs like excel at the very least. How the f*** would you even do your job without a computer?

 

Pretty sure it's been like 25 years since Beest was a practicing accountant.

[Spanky99]

Pretty sure it's been like 25 years since Beest was a practicing accountant.

 

Zero f***s were given.

[burlingtonbandit]

lol like literally you would just sit in your office and jerk off all day if you didn't use a computer for your job.

[Spanky99]

lol like literally you would just sit in your office and jerk off all day if you didn't use a computer for your job.

 

He was working on the field and upgrades to the stadium, all he had to do was sign off. The rest was even more gravy. He had a God job.

[Thomas Malthus]

lol like literally you would just sit in your office and jerk off all day if you didn't use a computer for your job.

 

But if you didn't have a computer what would you jerk off to?

[King]

But if you didn't have a computer what would you jerk off to?

 

[TBJ12]

lol like literally you would just sit in your office and jerk off all day if you didn't use a computer for your job.

 

Without a computer?

[Thomas Malthus]

 

[Spanky99]

Can we just agree to a FO that has a clue...

[Boxcar]

Can we just agree to a FO that has a clue...

 

I agree spank

 

http://rs210.pbsrc.com/albums/bb153/universal_wrestling/KingKongBundy.gif?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

[brianf]

This is what i am saying. The guy builds an excellent rotation without giving up anything or spending a boatload of money and people are hating on him.... Makes loads of f***ing sense

 

First time posting so be gentle...

 

Both AA and Shapiro have made great moves and bad ones. Surprised no one has even mentioned Shapiro traded Archer, Phillips, and Coco Crisp for essentially junk.

 

Yes, Shapiro has signed some great extensions but he also gave extensions to Sizemore, Westbrook and Haffner that tied up money that could have been used to resign Lee or Martinez instead of being forced to move them. I realize that the above extensions were bad based on injuries but they were still signings that hurt the team going forward.

 

I'm fine with Shapiro going forward and without a doubt he's better then Beeston at this point, but when criticizing AA and Beeston it needs to be realized that they did do a lot right for this organization. Loosing AA and his work ethics hurts the organization. For all the great moves that some are saying about Shapiro, look at his record. He took over a good team in 2001 as the GM. From 2001 to 2015, 7 seasons of playing .500 or better ball and that was in the AL Central when that Division was awful. Welcome back to mediocrity...hopefully it's not another 22 years.

[DuckDuckGose]

As AGM, AA does not get credit for signing a 16 year old Dominican for $55,000. I'm sorry, he just had very, very little do with it.

 

He had just been promoted to AGM from scouting director. I forget the scout's name and obviously he's the one who deserves the bulk of the credit but AA was absolutely involved in that decision. JPR couldn't scout/draft/develop for s*** which is why AA was promoted to AGM in the first place.

 

I'm not complaining about any of this stuff. I'm just pointing out why your "the Jays have just as bright a future as they would have had without the Marlins and Dickey trades" narrative is untrue.

 

They absolutely do. They're a contender with their most important pieces locked up long term. No guarantee they'd be in that position w/o those trades but they're there now.

 

In the case of the picks, the 2010 draft didn't reflect a strategy. The Jays just had a bunch of players who left as free agents. AA took over the off-season after 2009 so he didn't have to do anything to get the picks. Again, I'm not saying that reflects on him in any way. I merely pointed out that this happened.

 

That's a false narrative and of course it was a strategy. AA intentionally acquired FA's to game the system for picks. It's one of the reasons they changed the comp system.

 

I was not commenting on whether the resultant path of 2013-2015 makes up for the trades.

 

Yes you were.

 

I was just pointing out that the organization would be more talented without the moves.

 

Look you did it again.

 

That's what I said and it reflects the reality of the situation.

 

The reality of the situation is AA built a contender. He didn't take the most efficient path but he got there and that's what matters most.

 

I'm not trying to look at AA's body of work or Shapiro's. You are trying to make the comparisons. All I was pointing out is that the organization would be more talented without the 2012-13 offseason moves.

 

Look you're doing it again

 

I don't know what you mean by every year they moved forward. The 2010 Blue Jays were a better team than the 2011-2014 Blue Jays. I was pretty excited about that team and its young players and was disappointed when they took a step back.

 

Moved the franchise towards their goal of a perennial playoff contender. You're talking on the field product which isn't the same.

 

Since 2016 hasn't happened yet, we must go with the most likely outcome. Any reasonable reading of the situation has the Cubs as the better team.

 

They're going to be close. Cubs have better pitching, Jays have the better offense. Injuries will be a big factor and the Jays have more depth at this point.

 

I never said anything bad about JD. I agree that he's a great player and asset. I was pointing out that that the organization would be more talented without the 2012-13 offseason moves.

 

Look, you're talking about it again.

 

I'm not trying to make a larger point about AA's tenure. I disagreed with something you said about JD and Tulo making up for the lost talent.

 

You've made multiple points on AA's tenure and JD/Tulo don't make up for the trades in terms of efficiency but in terms of results they absolutely do.

 

The Indians were one of the best teams in baseball entering 2015 and have a strong outlook going forward.

 

And the Jays are one of the best teams in baseball entering 2016 and have a strong outlook going forward.

[DuckDuckGose]

I'd just like to circle back to this post and point out to you that PAUL BEESTON DIDN'T USE EMAIL IN THE YEAR 2015.

 

Why would any one care about that? He has a team of assistants that would.

[Laika]

Why would any one care about that? He has a team of assistants that would.

 

ok

 

let the t-rex be prime minister. doesn't matter that he has tiny arms - he'll have a team of assistants that can zip up his pants

[DuckDuckGose]

ok

 

let the t-rex be prime minister. doesn't matter that he has tiny arms - he'll have a team of assistants that can zip up his pants

 

His job isn't to email people, he sits in meetings all day. Assistants take notes and send emails for him; not a big deal and has nothing to do with being a dinosaur. You can accomplish just as much by picking up the phone as you can by sending an email.

[King]

Didn't realize there are Beeston apologists out there. This is incredible.