Offseason Roster Thread

[Laika]

Ya I wouldn't even be against him starting games in AA. Sanchez has started 20 games in his entire life in AA and AAA combined.

 

Using him in the 6th inning is f***ing retarded. Either trade him or make him a starter. Cry about having a sustainable franchise and put your best pitching prospects in the least valuable positions. Retarded.

 

Hey guy, they can use him in whatever inning they want. I mean Osuna and Storen can't pitch every day.

[Abomination]

Career numbers as a reliever (smaller sample sizes for Osuna and Sanchez obviously):

 

Storen: 3.09 FIP, 3.46 xFIP

Osuna: 3.02 FIP, 3.45 xFIP

Sanchez: 2.93 FIP, 3.15 xFIP

[Cyborg]

Yup, hopefully we can pick up a few more Gavin Floyds and Jesse Chavez's to fill out our rotation in the future.

 

Agreed.

[Angrioter]

Career numbers as a reliever (smaller sample sizes for Osuna and Sanchez obviously):

 

Storen: 3.09 FIP, 3.46 xFIP

Osuna: 3.02 FIP, 3.45 xFIP

Sanchez: 2.93 FIP, 3.15 xFIP

 

Sanchez 100 innings?

[Sammy225]

Yup, hopefully we can pick up a few more Gavin Floyds and Jesse Chavez's to fill out our rotation in the future.

 

Well if they are better then what we got then i hope so too;

 

Floyd, Chavez > Sancheeezy

[Sammy225]

Floyd, Chavez > a 23 year old with 100 minor league IP above A ball. Yes.

 

I know this board is utterly obsessed with advanced stats but I'm shocked that no one believes a player can become better at a young age. I mean, this hate for Sanchez is mystifying and nonsensical. There's very little risk in continuing to make him a starter. 6th inning reliever is one of the least valuable positions on the team, hitting or pitching.

 

If you guys had your way with half of last year's top SP WAR leaders, they'd all be relievers. Arrieta, Kluber, Ross, Archer, Carrasco, Keuchel, etc.

 

I don't even really like Sanchez but just objectively speaking it's pretty retarded to give up on him as a starter and forego a chance at a huge amount of surplus value.

 

He has done nothing to prove he is better. When he started last year he walked tried to walk the whole ball park and in a year when we are supposed to be contending and we have better options why start him. If they want him to start put him in the minors and see if he can figure it out. But not here.

[Sammy225]

That's what I said.

 

Then why are you arguing with me i didn't say trade him i said don't start him this year because there is better options

[BTS]

That's what I said.

 

The issue is that he might be able to blow people away with just a fastball in 1-inning stints. Sanchez might be the 3rd best reliever on the team. You don't want to waste him in AA in a contention year if you can get 70 good innings. Especially when he's a long shot to be an effective starter.

[Jimcanuck]

Sanchez will get plenty of starts for the Jays in 2016.

 

Have said it before and will say it again. He is one of two Jays with ace potential, Stroman being the other. How close he comes to his potential only time will tell, and he's quite young yet.

 

Deal with it.

[Angrioter]

Floyd, Chavez > a 23 year old with 100 minor league IP above A ball. Yes.

 

I know this board is utterly obsessed with advanced stats but I'm shocked that no one believes a player can become better at a young age. I mean, this hate for Sanchez is mystifying and nonsensical. There's very little risk in continuing to make him a starter. 6th inning reliever is one of the least valuable positions on the team, hitting or pitching.

 

If you guys had your way with half of last year's top SP WAR leaders, they'd all be relievers. Arrieta, Kluber, Ross, Archer, Carrasco, Keuchel, etc.

 

I don't even really like Sanchez but just objectively speaking it's pretty retarded to give up on him as a starter and forego a chance at a huge amount of surplus value.

 

"Weak contacts" isn't a skill. Sanchez is what he's.... One plus pitch guy who can dominate a hitter one time per day. MO Rivera can't be a stud throwing only cutter through 6-7 innings each 5 days.

[Laika]

If you guys had your way with half of last year's top SP WAR leaders, they'd all be relievers. Arrieta, Kluber, Ross, Archer, Carrasco, Keuchel, etc.

 

Nah, none of us would put a guy with repertoires like theirs in the pen.

 

Sanchez is a 1.5 pitch pitcher. Double plus fastball and a show-me breaking ball that can't miss bats. No bueno in the rotation; hard to see it ever being bueno.

 

I think the "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush" line applies. Just shove him in the pen and enjoy the hand bird. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is usually a bad idea.

[Jimcanuck]

Nah, none of us would put a guy with repertoires like theirs in the pen.

 

Sanchez is a 1.5 pitch pitcher. Double plus fastball and a show-me breaking ball that can't miss bats. No bueno in the rotation; hard to see it ever being bueno.

 

I think the "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush" line applies. Just shove him in the pen and enjoy the hand bird. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is usually a bad idea.

 

He just turned 23 yrs old, FFS. Plenty of time to develop a 3rd pitch. You would make a terrible GM

[Cyborg]

He just turned 23 yrs old, FFS. Plenty of time to develop a 3rd pitch. You would make a terrible GM

You would make an even more terrible GM.

[Angrioter]

He just turned 23 yrs old, FFS. Plenty of time to develop a 3rd pitch. You would make a terrible GM

 

...... but Blue Jays windows is closing amigo. Jose and Edwin will walk the next offseason. Put Sanchez in the bullpen and enjoy his 65 innings of fastballs over and over again

[highhard2]

The issue is that he might be able to blow people away with just a fastball in 1-inning stints. Sanchez might be the 3rd best reliever on the team. You don't want to waste him in AA in a contention year if you can get 70 good innings. Especially when he's a long shot to be an effective starter.

 

He's a better fit as starting pitching depth in the minors.He needs to work on his change up,and add a cutter,regardless of whether he pitches out of the pen or not.He cant do it pitching out of the bullpen.

The starting staff is going to be 4/5 right handed making for a leftie heavy opposing lineup most nights.This doesn't play to sanchez' strength at all. Unless he suddenly finds a way to get LHH's out he's going to need time in the minors.

[Boxcar]

Is there an age Aaron Sanchez can reach where there is no longer plenty of time to learn a third pitch? I would like to look forward to it.

[highhard2]

Is there an age Aaron Sanchez can reach where there is no longer plenty of time to learn a third pitch? I would like to look forward to it.

 

Not ever going to happen pitching out of the bullpen in the majors.If he doesn't add a third/fourth pitch I doubt he even becomes a viable pen option.

[Spanky__99]

Heh...

[Frenchsoup]

Not ever going to happen pitching out of the bullpen in the majors.If he doesn't add a third/fourth pitch I doubt he even becomes a viable pen option.

 

Well, he did start at the beginning of last year and didn't really show improvements on the change/cutter. The front office can only give so much leash.

[highhard2]

Well, he did start at the beginning of last year and didn't really show improvements on the change/cutter. The front office can only give so much leash.

 

It's probably almost as hard to work on adding pitches being a starter in the majors as it is pitching out of the pen in the majors.

If he didn't work on his repertoire this offseason/spring he needs time in the minors.

Having him as a Roogy(which is all he is at this point) is a massive waste. Especially on a team that has mostly right handed starters.

[G-Snarls]

Stroman seems to add pitches at will

[Brownie19]

He just turned 23 yrs old, FFS. Plenty of time to develop a 3rd pitch. You would make a terrible GM

 

What makes you so sure when he's hasn't been able to even develop a second quality pitch over the last 7 years (assuming he started throwing secondary pitches at age 16)...

[Jimcanuck]

What makes you so sure when he's hasn't been able to even develop a second quality pitch over the last 7 years (assuming he started throwing secondary pitches at age 16)...

 

Where did i say i am sure? All I said is he has time, whether he develops one or not we will see.

[Jimcanuck]

Not ever going to happen pitching out of the bullpen in the majors.If he doesn't add a third/fourth pitch I doubt he even becomes a viable pen option.

 

He's already better than at least half the '16 pen.

[Jimcanuck]

Why is he a better candidate to improve than any of our other pitchers? Young pitchers don't actually improve like you think they do.

 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72512952/major-league-baseball-pitchers-velocity-peaks-at-an-early-age

 

Where did i say he is a better candidate to improve than the other pitchers?

[Angrioter]

Why is he a better candidate to improve than any of our other pitchers? Young pitchers don't actually improve in the way that you think they do.

 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72512952/major-league-baseball-pitchers-velocity-peaks-at-an-early-age

 

99% of stud prospects don't perform well at MLB and become on bust; It's nothing new.

[Jimcanuck]

That's the whole point of any discussion. You think the Jays should give Sanchez a shot because he can improve. But if any other pitcher is just as liable to improve... there's nothing there.

 

He should be in Buffalo or NH (no diff) developing. Not his fault AA promoted him too quickly such that he never properly developed. He was far from a finished product when he hit MLB at 21 yrs of age.

 

My response is to the guys that are saying trade him or consign him to the bullpen for his career. Terrible asset mgmt.

[G-Snarls]

He should be in Buffalo or NH (no diff) developing. Not his fault AA promoted him too quickly such that he never properly developed. He was far from a finished product when he hit MLB at 21 yrs of age.

 

My response is to the guys that are saying trade him or consign him to the bullpen for his career. Terrible asset mgmt.

 

Osuna and Stroman seemed more MLB ready when they came up - but they seem to have a different makeup entirely, more complete, better command, composed, etc.

[G-Snarls]

Why is he a better candidate to improve than any of our other pitchers? Young pitchers don't actually improve in the way that you think they do.

 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72512952/major-league-baseball-pitchers-velocity-peaks-at-an-early-age

 

Eventually you have to learn to pitch and not just throw your best pitch too often. I'm sure it helps to have a catcher who guides you really well - I'm certainly very glad we have Martin right now instead or Arencibia or even D'Arnaud. It's hard to be successful over 5-6 innings throwing the same pitch 90% of the time, even if it's a good high 90s fastball.

[Jimcanuck]

Osuna and Stroman seemed more MLB ready when they came up - but they seem to have a different makeup entirely, more complete, better command, composed, etc.

 

Osuna was pitching in Mexican pro league at 16. Stro hit MLB at 23, Sanchez at 21.

 

We will never know if Sanchez would have hit MLB with better control and a 3rd pitch with full years in Dunedin, NH, and Buffalo.... hitting MLB at 23 as a fully stretched out starter instead.