Offseason Roster Thread

[z3r0s]

The more I think about it, the more I think getting one of the premium position players would be a good idea for our long and short term team. I don't think we can/want to keep both Edwin and Joey beyond this year, especially because both of them should be a 1B/DH going forward. If you pick up Heyward or Chris Davis next year, it makes our 2017 lineup look better after we loose at least one of our cornerstone bats (Joey/Edwin), with the added bonus of making our lineup look great for 2016 (with Cola on the bench).

 

If you don't pick up a bat this year the lineup looks less dangerous in 2017 when you lose at least 1 of Joey/Edwin. You could pick up another bat in 2017, but the FA pool doesn't look that sexy.

[Grant77]

The more I think about it, the more I think getting one of the premium position players would be a good idea for our long and short term team. I don't think we can/want to keep both Edwin and Joey beyond this year, especially because both of them should be a 1B/DH going forward. If you pick up Heyward or Chris Davis next year, it makes our 2017 lineup look better after we loose at least one of our cornerstone bats (Joey/Edwin), with the added bonus of making our lineup look great for 2016 (with Cola on the bench).

 

If you don't pick up a bat this year the lineup looks less dangerous in 2017 when you lose at least 1 of Joey/Edwin. You could pick up another bat in 2017, but the FA pool doesn't look that sexy.

 

I think that we should wait until next year to label Bautista as a 1B/DH going forward. The UZR numbers took a downturn, but a lot of that stems from an 8 run decline in arm strength, due to the injury. He returned to being one of the premiere RF arms in the second half. The decline in range numbers is more concerning, but the eye test tells you it wasn't from a lack of footspeed, as is the concern with other older guys like Beltran. Rather, it seemed to me that his problem was taking bad routes and dropping balls. That's more of a mental thing that he hasn't had major problems with before, so I'm optimistic that he can sort some of it out.

[z3r0s]

I think that we should wait until next year to label Bautista as a 1B/DH going forward. The UZR numbers took a downturn, but a lot of that stems from an 8 run decline in arm strength, due to the injury. He returned to being one of the premiere RF arms in the second half. The decline in range numbers is more concerning, but the eye test tells you it wasn't from a lack of footspeed, as is the concern with other older guys like Beltran. Rather, it seemed to me that his problem was taking bad routes and dropping balls. That's more of a mental thing that he hasn't had major problems with before, so I'm optimistic that he can sort some of it out.

 

regardless of when you expect him to have to move to 1st (or if). I think my point about only bringing back one of Edwin/Jose stands, so its still worth considering bringing another (younger) bat in to take on of their spots in the lineup.

[Grant77]

regardless of when you expect him to have to move to 1st (or if). I think my point about only bringing back one of Edwin/Jose stands, so its still worth considering bringing another (younger) bat in to take on of their spots in the lineup.

 

It's more of a when than an if, provided his bat holds up, but I think there's a moderate chance that he reverts back to an average defender for a couple more seasons.

 

As for your main point, I think that the logistics of a 'sign a big bat and trade another' would be extremely difficult, but the premise is sound.

[burlingtonbandit]

Remarkable how Bautista has been such a great hitter even at his age. His ISO and BB rate were his best since his 2011 season and his plate discipline numbers haven remained the same since he broke out. He still looks to be in tremendous shape. I think you could make the case EE has declined more than Bautista has even though he is a few years younger.

[z3r0s]

It's more of a when than an if, provided his bat holds up, but I think there's a moderate chance that he reverts back to an average defender for a couple more seasons.

 

As for your main point, I think that the logistics of a 'sign a big bat and trade another' would be extremely difficult, but the premise is sound.

 

I wasn't thinking that you would trade a bat in this situation. More that you sign a bat this year with the assumption that you lose one of EE or JB to FA the following year (or god forbid, be out of it at the deadline and trade one).

[Laika]

regardless of when you expect him to have to move to 1st (or if). I think my point about only bringing back one of Edwin/Jose stands, so its still worth considering bringing another (younger) bat in to take on of their spots in the lineup.

 

I think there's a reasonable chance that AA can get Edwin and Jose negotiating at the same time, play that off of the other player, and end up getting team friendly extensions if they both sign.

 

Both players probably love Toronto and the team is in such a good state right now. I really don't think it's necessary to let one walk, unless one of them is intent on testing free agency (Bautista might be).

 

A couple of years from now Jose could play an adequate 1B and EE would DH. Not a huge deal.

 

I think Bautista is all about respect. Does he find respect in dollars, or in legacy? If legacy = respect then he'll accept a sweetheart deal to retire a Blue Jay.

[burlingtonbandit]

I think there's a reasonable chance that AA can get Edwin and Jose negotiating at the same time, play that off of the other player, and end up getting team friendly extensions if they both sign.

 

Both players probably love Toronto and the team is in such a good state right now. I really don't think it's necessary to let one walk, unless one of them is intent on testing free agency (Bautista might be).

 

A couple of years from now Jose could play an adequate 1B and EE would DH. Not a huge deal.

 

I think Bautista is all about respect. Does he find respect in dollars, or in legacy? If legacy = respect then he'll accept a sweetheart deal to retire a Blue Jay.

 

The feeling is Bautista isn't going to take a hometown discount when he was worth more than double his last contract.

[Grant77]

I think there's a reasonable chance that AA can get Edwin and Jose negotiating at the same time, play that off of the other player, and end up getting team friendly extensions if they both sign.

 

Both players probably love Toronto and the team is in such a good state right now. I really don't think it's necessary to let one walk, unless one of them is intent on testing free agency (Bautista might be).

 

A couple of years from now Jose could play an adequate 1B and EE would DH. Not a huge deal.

 

I think Bautista is all about respect. Does he find respect in dollars, or in legacy? If legacy = respect then he'll accept a sweetheart deal to retire a Blue Jay.

 

A little beside the point, but it would be misguided for him to think that money means respect, at least in a long term sense. Nobody has more respect for Vernon Wells because he got a huge contract. In fact, I think some have less respect for him because of it.

[CHRIS]

I don't think Bautista is going anywhere.

 

He has a Booster Juice franchise to run for pete's sake.

[Laika]

The feeling is Bautista isn't going to take a hometown discount when he was worth more than double his last contract.

 

That's one way to look at it, but for Bautista to see it like that would be pretty one-sided and self centred.

 

The Blue Jays committed and guaranteed $65 million to him after one miracle season. They showed a large amount of faith in him as a player and a person, and to his credit he rewarded them by being everything they could have hoped he would be for the duration of that deal.

 

Bautista's last contract should be viewed as extremely positive, in a reciprocal sense. Both parties should feel the love...

 

... I hope

[Brenner]

A little beside the point, but it would be misguided for him to think that money means respect, at least in a long term sense. Nobody has more respect for Vernon Wells because he got a huge contract. In fact, I think some have less respect for him because of it.

 

lol at the thought that Bautista cares about your respect level for him.

 

In this context its the team respecting him via money, not the fans.

[Grant77]

lol at the thought that Bautista cares about your respect level for him.

 

In this context its the team respecting him via money, not the fans.

 

I was responding to a hypothetical post centered around legacy, not about respect from the team. Nobody said or implied that he cares what an individual fan thinks.

[Governator]

After 2016, the Dodgers will be paying the maximum luxury tax penalty of 50% of the amount they over the luxury threshold. This year they paid 40% of $125MM.. Next year will probably be around $60MM, enough to literally bankroll the Marlins Team Salary. It's sort of outrageous that the money isn't distributed to smaller market teams imo.

[burlingtonbandit]

So EE got sports hernia surgery? I would say he is the bigger injury risk going forward when compared to Bautista regardless of age. I'm not sure his body will hold up for that long even if he is a DH.

[dineke]

So EE got sports hernia surgery? I would say he is the bigger injury risk going forward when compared to Bautista regardless of age. I'm not sure his body will hold up for that long even if he is a DH.

 

Bautista had sports hernia surgery before too...

[burlingtonbandit]

Bautista had sports hernia surgery before too...

 

True. My opinion would be if you could only resign one I would pick him because I think he has lesser risk despite the age.

[RealAccountant]

Keep both sign Chris Davis

 

Revere

Donaldson

Bautista

Davis

Encarnacion

Tulowitski

Martin

Travis

Pillar

 

Best lineup of the decade

[RealAccountant]

Nobody is going to trade anything of any significance for EE. He only plays in AL and a lot if those spots are taken. Assuming we don't want to trade him to AL East that only leaves about 10 teams that may show interest if they dont have anyone at DH. He certainly won't bring in pitching help that's for sure.

 

What could save ten mil. Here's the real question. Next year would you rather have EE and Dickey or would you rather have Price

[Trouba95]

Keep both sign Chris Davis

 

Revere

Donaldson

Bautista

Davis

Encarnacion

Tulowitski

Martin

Travis

Pillar

 

Best lineup of the decade

 

Lol Revere leading off and Travis in the 8 hole. Troll job?

[RealAccountant]

Lol Revere leading off and Travis in the 8 hole. Troll job?

 

.342 obp with 31 sb full season

 

Travis needs to spend a year down in the order

[burlingtonbandit]

Keep both sign Chris Davis

 

Revere

Donaldson

Bautista

Davis

Encarnacion

Tulowitski

Martin

Travis

Pillar

 

Best lineup of the decade

 

Do not want Davis. Contract is going to look awful right away. Unlike the current power bats Davis strikes out 30% of the time. Lineup needs a LH bat but I'd rather get a 1B that doesn't strike out much.

[Laika]

Do not want Davis. Contract is going to look awful right away. Unlike the current power bats Davis strikes out 30% of the time. Lineup needs a LH bat but I'd rather get a 1B that doesn't strike out much.

 

Justin Morneau 2016!!!

[Orgfiller]

Remarkable how Bautista has been such a great hitter even at his age. His ISO and BB rate were his best since his 2011 season and his plate discipline numbers haven remained the same since he broke out. He still looks to be in tremendous shape. I think you could make the case EE has declined more than Bautista has even though he is a few years younger.

 

He declined by having his second consecutive 150 wRC+ season, and providing the most WAR of his career?

[RealAccountant]

The more I think about it the more I would just leave the lineup. I don't think anyone can argue that we have a good enough lineup already yeah its maybe too RHB heavy but its good enough to pound most righty pitchers as well.

 

Focus should be on the acquisition of pitching

[z3r0s]

Do not want Davis. Contract is going to look awful right away. Unlike the current power bats Davis strikes out 30% of the time. Lineup needs a LH bat but I'd rather get a 1B that doesn't strike out much.

 

Heyward is a LH bat

[Dr. Dinger]

The more I think about it the more I would just leave the lineup. I don't think anyone can argue that we have a good enough lineup already yeah its maybe too RHB heavy but its good enough to pound most righty pitchers as well.

 

Focus should be on the acquisition of pitching

 

There's no such thing as too right-heavy. Righties hit righties, lefties don't hit lefites.

[burlingtonbandit]

He declined by having his second consecutive 150 wRC+ season, and providing the most WAR of his career?

 

His swstr% was the highest since 2007 at a still very good 9.3% and his zone contact % of 85.2% was well below any season of his career.

 

The power is still there and he's obviously still very good but I see him aging rather quickly and I'm not sure I want to sign him to a multi-year deal after the current contract is done.

[RealAccountant]

In any case the best thing to do is go and get some pitching without taking away pieces already in place.

[burlingtonbandit]

There's no such thing as too right-heavy. Righties hit righties, lefties don't hit lefites.

 

I wouldn't say thats the case. There are relievers who are very tough on RHH who are going to give a team a significant advantage if the opposing team has all RHH.