What's up with Price?

[Spanky99]

Kershaw has lost his last 5 playoff starts for the Dodgers. What's up with HIM?

 

He suxxxxxxx brah!

[Terminator]

 

Imagine if Gibby was actually trolling everyone and his main intention was to get Price the most possible starts in the ALCS?

 

Well he'll definitely be ready for Game 1 of the ALCS should we win tomorrow. But he'd have to start on 3 days rest twice in a row to get in to Game 1 - Game 4 - Game 7. But setting Price up for Game 1 could have factored in to the decision.

[Dick_Pole]

I've never seen a fanbase that hates a franchise player so much. It's absurd.

 

Who hates Bautista, outside of dumb trolls like the post you responded to?

 

I know there has been plenty of talk of wanting to trade Bautista, but desiring to trade a player and hating him are two different things. Most of the argument in favor of trading him is age-curve related or some other generic research-based principle that suggests the Jays would be selling high on him, instead of factors that are directly attributed to his talents or attitude.

 

I personally think trading him or letting him walk would be a PR nightmare for the team, much bigger than if the same happened with Edwin.

[Olerud363]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's essential to give Aaron Sanchez a chance to be the guy we saw in his last few starts before the injury. A pitcher with a K/BB at or over 2 and that groundball rate is highly valuable in our ballpark.

 

It would be great to see Sanchez have success as a starter.

[Krylian]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's essential to give Aaron Sanchez a chance to be the guy we saw in his last few starts before the injury. A pitcher with a K/BB at or over 2 and that groundball rate is highly valuable in our ballpark.

 

It's only unpopular because many don't have the patience for him to find it as a starter.

[rydermike]

The one thing I don't like about Bautista is his tendency to argue with the umpires, everything else he's great.

 

I'm still undecided about what to do with him next year. His arm is still great, but his fielding has dipped. I kind of want to take him out of RF, but I don't really see how we can.

Prior to this season, I thought about having him go to third and LAwrie to second, but obviously with Donaldson that is not even a consideration.

 

The other option is for him to be 1B, with Edwin at DH, but then we lose Colabello's spot if his form continues

[Dick_Pole]

It's only unpopular because many don't have the patience for him to find it as a starter.

 

The Jays are in win now mode. Any fan with brains shouldn't have any patience for a young pitcher to find himself while teetering on the edge every game. He has a chance to earn a spot next year in spring training. If he pitches like how he pitched the first few weeks...to the BP or minors he goes. If he pitches like his final 3 or 4 starts...maybe there's a window to consider him for the #5 spot. Though I would rank Hutchison and Osuna ahead of him for any starting role so he has an uphill battle next year.

[nextyear]

I think Bautista might lose a bit of speed in RF, but he has years of experience playing in RF and when healthy he still has a strong throwing arm. I think Jose Bautista will be fine in RF for another 4 seasons or more; he is physically very fit, he doesn't have a flabby physique that is suddenly going to decline.

 

I would like to see Jose Bautista chill out a bit though.

 

I want Bautista to stay in Toronto.

[BigCecil]

I think Bautista might lose a bit of speed in RF, but he has years of experience playing in RF and when healthy he still has a strong throwing arm. I think Jose Bautista will be fine in RF for another 4 seasons or more; he is physically very fit, he doesn't have a flabby physique that is suddenly going to decline.

 

^ I love Jose and on a team friendly deal (which we wont get I don't think) Id love to see him stay...but if I have to watch him in RF for FOUR MORE YEARS the cheese will slip off my cracker. Not a chance. 1B Please.

[Laika]

I think Bautista might lose a bit of speed in RF, but he has years of experience playing in RF and when healthy he still has a strong throwing arm. I think Jose Bautista will be fine in RF for another 4 seasons or more; he is physically very fit, he doesn't have a flabby physique that is suddenly going to decline.

 

I would like to see Jose Bautista chill out a bit though.

 

I want Bautista to stay in Toronto.

 

Oh he definitely will stay in the OF. It's a point of pride for Bautista, I bet. He takes great care of his body and he probably has every intent to stay in RF until he retires.

 

It's also the norm in baseball. Veteran outfielders like Marlon Byrd, Torri Hunter, Jayson Werth, and Carlos Beltran stay in the OF, even if their defense slips. Elite veteran players just don't typically switch positions, unless it's from C-->1B or maybe 3B-->1B mid career if they outgrow the hot corner. Taking a player and forcing a late career position switch is a good way to f*** him up (Hanley) or neuter all of his value (Mauer). The only positive precedent that I can think of from recent memory is Cruz shifting to partial DH duties this year with good results.

[Laika]

Bautista was an above average RF in each of the previous 3 seasons, and about 70% of his negative runs in the OF this year can be blamed on his bum shoulder. Talk of moving him to 1B is very premature

[GD]

Oh he definitely will stay in the OF. It's a point of pride for Bautista, I bet. He takes great care of his body and he probably has every intent to stay in RF until he retires.

 

It's also the norm in baseball. Veteran outfielders like Marlon Byrd, Torri Hunter, Jayson Werth, and Carlos Beltran stay in the OF, even if their defense slips. Elite veteran players just don't typically switch positions, unless it's from C-->1B or maybe 3B-->1B mid career if they outgrow the hot corner. Taking a player and forcing a late career position switch is a good way to f*** him up (Hanley) or neuter all of his value (Mauer). The only positive precedent that I can think of from recent memory is Cruz shifting to partial DH duties this year with good results.

 

Bautista partial DH duties wouldn't be bad imo

[Laika]

Bautista partial DH duties wouldn't be bad imo

 

I agree. Give him ~30 half days off next year while utilizing the 4th man in the Pompey/Saunders/Pillar/Bautista OF. Against RHP obviously, since you want Colabello in there against every LHP and the opposite might be true for Saunders.

[43211234]

Oh he definitely will stay in the OF. It's a point of pride for Bautista, I bet. He takes great care of his body and he probably has every intent to stay in RF until he retires.

 

It's also the norm in baseball. Veteran outfielders like Marlon Byrd, Torri Hunter, Jayson Werth, and Carlos Beltran stay in the OF, even if their defense slips. Elite veteran players just don't typically switch positions, unless it's from C-->1B or maybe 3B-->1B mid career if they outgrow the hot corner. Taking a player and forcing a late career position switch is a good way to f*** him up (Hanley) or neuter all of his value (Mauer). The only positive precedent that I can think of from recent memory is Cruz shifting to partial DH duties this year with good results.

 

Don't forget E5's transition into the EE we all know and love.

[BigCecil]

Bautista was an above average RF in each of the previous 3 seasons, and about 70% of his negative runs in the OF this year can be blamed on his bum shoulder. Talk of moving him to 1B is very premature

 

The last 5 seasons his fWAR show negative def numbers. This year they were much worse and no doubt the arm was part of that.

 

DH ing some is a good idea. He missed good parts of two seasons since he signed the 5 year deal - hip etc.

[43211234]

But Edwin's transition wasn't late in his career so ignore that last post!

[nextyear]

The way i see and i can somewhat understand..... Before game 4 they had made their decision that Stroman was pitching game 5 because he is the hot hand. Now Reynolds was all bent out of shape because he is not available for game 5.... My thoughts is why would you burn your best 2 pitchers on Wednesday so non of them are available to start game 2 of the ALCS if you make it there..... I would not burn both guys in that game then you are without either of your best pitchers probably facing either Kuechal or Cueto to start the series. Also even without Cecil your bullpen has to manage WITHOUT Price anyway to get anywhere near a WS because he HAS to start games

 

So which brings up to Game 4. Bringing Price in i think was more or less to get him some work in a game (which bringing in a Cy Young candidate is not going to hurt you)because then your talking over a week with him not seeing game action going into the ALCS.

 

If this is somewhat the train of though i can understand it. Whether or not i agree with it i don't know. Just the way i am breaking things down.

 

 

I think this is the real reason.

 

Another reason not to start Price in game 5 - so history won't repeat itself. In 2010 the Texas Rangers beat Tampa Bay in games 1 and 2 in Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay then came back to win games 4 and 5 in Arlington, Texas, however Texas won the 5th game in Tampa Bay. The starting pitcher in both Tampa Bay losses (games 1 and 5) was David Price - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_American_League_Division_Series .

 

The 2010 ALDS sounds frighteningly similar to the current ALDS between Toronto and Texas, except with Toronto replacing Tampa. However, Gibbons broke the pattern by starting Stroman in Game 5 instead of David Price (perhaps Gibbons is much craftier than people give him credit for).

 

However, I think Gibbons craftily burnt David Price in game 4 so that there would be no possibility of him pitching long in game 5.

[Laika]

Don't forget E5's transition into the EE we all know and love.

 

True, but when that position switch happened Special Ed was basically a role player. A below average regular with some big muscles.

[dineke]

The last 5 seasons his fWAR show negative def numbers. This year they were much worse and no doubt the arm was part of that.

 

DH ing some is a good idea.

 

Most right fielders have negative def numbers

[Laika]

The last 5 seasons his fWAR show negative def numbers. This year they were much worse and no doubt the arm was part of that.

 

DH ing some is a good idea.

 

The negative number for defense is from the positional adjustment. Fangraphs changed their dashboard last year and it's confusing. It used to show UZR, which is runs saved/lost relative to league average at the player's position, but now it rolls in the positional adjustment and displays total defensive runs. Right fielders get a negative adjustment. A league average RF would display a -7.5 in defense on the Fangraphs dashboard. A right fielder displaying a slight positive in the Fangraphs dashboard defensive value would hypothetically be a viable CF.

 

I wish they'd go back to just showing UZR on the dashboard because I think it's the more important information.

[43211234]

The last 5 seasons his fWAR show negative def numbers. This year they were much worse and no doubt the arm was part of that.

 

DH ing some is a good idea.

 

That includes the positional penalty in RF. His UZR numbers were above average among RFers.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1887&position=3B/OF#fieldingadvanced

[Grant77]

The last 5 seasons his fWAR show negative def numbers. This year they were much worse and no doubt the arm was part of that.

 

DH ing some is a good idea. He missed good parts of two seasons since he signed the 5 year deal - hip etc.

 

It's negative because they subtract a positional adjustment, which adjusts for all of the big bats in right field. Positions like catcher and shortstop get a positive adjustment.

 

If you want to see his true numbers, go to the 'advanced fielding' tab and look at 'UZR/150'. I don't think it's all that reliable, but it's what you're looking for.

[BigCecil]

Oh he definitely will stay in the OF. It's a point of pride for Bautista, I bet. He takes great care of his body and he probably has every intent to stay in RF until he retires.

 

One of the reasons I didn't think the "point of pride"^ on 1B was as big of an issue for Jose is that he is a converted IF for the most part. Not his first rodeo.

[Laika]

Also Jose likes to stretch constantly. 98% of his day is spent doing complicated stretches. He'd go all stiff and cramp up if he had to stand there like a statue and hold runners on, etc.

[BigCecil]

Also Jose likes to stretch constantly. 98% of his day is spent doing complicated stretches. He'd go all stiff and cramp up if he had to stand there like a statue and hold runners on, etc.

 

Yup. He does. He has a new career as a contortionist when he winds up his next contract.

[KingKat]

One of the reasons I didn't think the "point of pride"^ on 1B was as big of an issue for Jose is that he is a converted IF for the most part. Not his first rodeo.

 

Yeah but he's been very clear on his preference for RF over 3B. He plays RF because that's where he wants to play. I don't think the team ever really cared that much one way or another but he does. He wants to play RF. He won't want to return to the infield. He doesn't like it.

[GD]

Also Jose likes to stretch constantly. 98% of his day is spent doing complicated stretches. He'd go all stiff and cramp up if he had to stand there like a statue and hold runners on, etc.

 

as a big chubster 1B not dissimilar to Justin Smoak, can confirm

[BigCecil]

Yeah but he's been very clear on his preference for RF over 3B. He plays RF because that's where he wants to play. I don't think the team ever really cared that much one way or another but he does. He wants to play RF. He won't want to return to the infield. He doesn't like it.

 

True. That's his preference for sure. I remember the last time we put him at 3B and he missed a bunch of time after with back issues.

 

His numbers are better than I thought on OF D.

[vdubmvp]

Also Jose likes to stretch constantly. 98% of his day is spent doing complicated stretches. He'd go all stiff and cramp up if he had to stand there like a statue and hold runners on, etc.

 

lol this is hilariously accurate.

[nextyear]

I wonder why this thread is called "What's up with Price". I keep thinking that I am going to read posts about David Price . Maybe it means that nothing is up with David Price.