Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[The_DH]

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/toronto-blue-jays-top-mlb-prospects-updates-2022?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

 

Juenger off to hot start in Double-A (April 19)

The 2021 sixth-round pick made an immediate impression with the Blue Jays and it’s only gotten better from there. Coming off a strong camp, Toronto has opened right-hander Hayden Juenger in a bulk role with Double-A New Hampshire, where he’s started the year by striking out 11 batters over five hitless innings.

 

This shows how the Blue Jays, like many teams, are changing their approach to pitching development. The club is already showing the value of bulk roles and multi-inning relievers, and Juenger could push for a big league spot by the end of the season if he continues on this trajectory. Ranked as the No. 26 prospect in the organization, he’s putting himself in a great position to rise through the season

 

I don't remember seeing the word bulk reliever. What's the definition of that?

[John_Havok]

I don't remember seeing the word bulk reliever. What's the definition of that?

 

The long man in the pen. Guy who throws 3+ innings to save a s*** start, and will start the occasional game when needed. See Ross Stripling.

[The_DH]

The long man in the pen. Guy who throws 3+ innings to save a s*** start, and will start the occasional game when needed. See Ross Stripling.

 

Don't know why they came up with the new term. Long reliever/swing man was a common title. Or Mop up reliever.

[John_Havok]

Don't know why they came up with the new term. Long reliever/swing man was a common title. Or Mop up reliever.

 

I think theyre trying to find a term that doesnt imply they are s*** pitchers only being thrown in because they don't want anyone else to waist their time. Realistically, that's kinda what people think when they think of a swing man

[The_DH]

I think theyre trying to find a term that doesnt imply they are s*** pitchers only being thrown in because they don't want anyone else to waist their time. Realistically, that's kinda what people think when they think of a swing man

 

I can think of some great pitchers who came up in our system that way. That's why I was surprised at the term that there is a change in philosophy. Some great long relievers/bulk relievers or whatever term have included Hentgen, Key and a few others.

[Deadpool]

I can think of some great pitchers who came up in our system that way. That's why I was surprised at the term that there is a change in philosophy. Some great long relievers/bulk relievers or whatever term have included Hentgen, Key and a few others.

 

Yeah, it was very common for future starters to come up as relievers in the 80s and 90s, but it has very much not been the case for the past few decades. Starters in the minors come up as starters, and starters who suck are converted to relievers and stay that way. Might be a return to the old system, or possibly some sort of hybrid.

[Jimcanuck]

I thought bulk reliever was the term used to refer to a pitcher than follows an opener.

[keggy]

Bulk guy is specifically referring to the pitcher who comes in after the opener. This term didn't exist before the Rays invented openers a few years ago. They are starters who aren't very good.

 

Long man is the guy who comes in when the starter gets knocked out early. This is not planned, and they could be expected to cover 4+ innings. They are often also spot starters/swing man/6th starters. However some teams will keep a 6th starter stretched out in AAA. Long man can be a guy who's just not good enough to be a starter, like Paul Spoljaric, or a young starter who needs big league experience like Halladay and Hentgen.

 

Mop up guy is slightly different from a long man, because they're not necessarily there for long outings. They are there to soak up 1 or 2 low leverage innings at a time to rest the better relievers. They'll come in for the 9th inning of a blowout, for example. Mop up guys are almost never top prospects unless they are rule 5 picks. Trent Thornton is kind of filling the mop up role this year.

[Ehjays]

I think theyre trying to find a term that doesnt imply they are s*** pitchers only being thrown in because they don't want anyone else to waist their time. Realistically, that's kinda what people think when they think of a swing man

 

First guy I think of is Garrett Whitlock.

[Brownie19]

You can call it what you want, but essentially this is a throw back to the 1975-78 Goose Gossage days where very good relief pitchers were used for 2-3 innings in close games. Back then they would typically finish the game and collect saves. In today's version they pitch the 6th and 7th or 7th and 8th and bridge the gap from the starter to the closer.

[Iggy]

Bulk guy is specifically referring to the pitcher who comes in after the opener. This term didn't exist before the Rays invented openers a few years ago. They are starters who aren't very good.

 

Long man is the guy who comes in when the starter gets knocked out early. This is not planned, and they could be expected to cover 4+ innings. They are often also spot starters/swing man/6th starters. However some teams will keep a 6th starter stretched out in AAA. Long man can be a guy who's just not good enough to be a starter, like Paul Spoljaric, or a young starter who needs big league experience like Halladay and Hentgen.

 

Mop up guy is slightly different from a long man, because they're not necessarily there for long outings. They are there to soak up 1 or 2 low leverage innings at a time to rest the better relievers. They'll come in for the 9th inning of a blowout, for example. Mop up guys are almost never top prospects unless they are rule 5 picks. Trent Thornton is kind of filling the mop up role this year.

 

Very good explanation ... thanks

[Krylian]

Mark Eichhorn 1986

[The_DH]

Take a look at Mike Marshall of the Dodgers in 1974. 208 innings all out of the bullpen after a season of 179 innings. I remember Eichhorn's season, 157 innings pitched. It was higher leverage too. They used to have a different definition of a save back then too.

[InsideThePark]

Groshans playing with Dunedin tonight. Quite the demotion /s

[John_Havok]

Take a look at Mike Marshall of the Dodgers in 1974. 208 innings all out of the bullpen after a season of 179 innings. I remember Eichhorn's season, 157 innings pitched. It was higher leverage too. They used to have a different definition of a save back then too.

 

The definition of what counts as a save has never changed.

[Spanky__99]

Groshans playing with Dunedin tonight. Quite the demotion /s

 

Back from injury, consider it a rehab start.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Spanky99

[Spanky__99]

Take a look at Mike Marshall of the Dodgers in 1974. 208 innings all out of the bullpen after a season of 179 innings. I remember Eichhorn's season, 157 innings pitched. It was higher leverage too. They used to have a different definition of a save back then too.

 

I've met and hung out with Eichorn a couple times. Good man.

[InsideThePark]

Back from injury, considerate a rehab start.

 

that typo actually somewhat makes sense.

 

/s = sarcasm

[Spanky__99]

that typo actually somewhat makes sense.

 

/s = sarcasm

 

lol

[Krylian]

I've met and hung out with Eichorn a couple times. Good man.

 

Big dude too.

[Spanky__99]

Big dude too.

 

Very big, and a gentle giant. His accent is hard to pick up, so much twang' to it.

[Krylian]

Adrian Hernandez promoted from NH to Buffalo already...

[Spanky__99]

Adrian Hernandez promoted from NH to Buffalo already...

 

Awesome, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him this year in the Show. Swing and miss for days.

[Laika]

Who?

[Krylian]

Who?

 

Adrian Hernandez

[The_DH]

The definition of what counts as a save has never changed.

 

The definition of a save has not always been the same. As initially defined in 1969, a relief pitcher could earn a save if he entered a game with his team in the lead and he held the lead through the end of the game, regardless of the score or for how long he pitched.[22][24] This produced some especially "easy" saves, such as Ron Taylor being credited with a save after pitching a scoreless ninth inning in a 20–6 New York Mets win over the Atlanta Braves in August 1971.[24][25] In 1974, tougher criteria were adopted for saves where either the tying run had to be on base or at the plate when the reliever entered to qualify for a save, or the reliever had to preserve a lead of any size for at least three innings in completing a game.[26][27] The rule was slightly relaxed in 1975 to the current definition as outlined above.[28][27] Statistical sites, including MLB.com, include saves in pitching records prior to 1969 by retroactively applying the 1969 criteria.[22]

[Spanky__99]

Who?

 

Yer dumn.

[Spanky__99]

The definition of a save has not always been the same. As initially defined in 1969, a relief pitcher could earn a save if he entered a game with his team in the lead and he held the lead through the end of the game, regardless of the score or for how long he pitched.[22][24] This produced some especially "easy" saves, such as Ron Taylor being credited with a save after pitching a scoreless ninth inning in a 20–6 New York Mets win over the Atlanta Braves in August 1971.[24][25] In 1974, tougher criteria were adopted for saves where either the tying run had to be on base or at the plate when the reliever entered to qualify for a save, or the reliever had to preserve a lead of any size for at least three innings in completing a game.[26][27] The rule was slightly relaxed in 1975 to the current definition as outlined above.[28][27] Statistical sites, including MLB.com, include saves in pitching records prior to 1969 by retroactively applying the 1969 criteria.[22]

 

Labels of anything is stupid to be frank, personal performance is go 1, then move on.

[Krylian]

Who?

 

22 year old reliever.

Low 90s fastball (nothing special), but 70 grade changeup. Good K #s. Could be a useful piece.

[Spanky__99]

22 year old reliever.

Low 90s fastball (nothing special), but 70 grade changeup. Good K #s. Could be a useful piece.

 

Yeah man, he's something for sure.