Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[John_Havok]

Leo Jimenez #4?

 

Lol. No.

 

It’s not really them saying Jimenez is amazing or anything, just that the jays system is full of so many question marks, that his fairly high floor is easier to predict. Quite frankly, beyond Moreno and Orelvis, the system has a whole shitload of “who the f*** knows?”

 

The Jays either graduated or traded 6 of their top 12 prospects from fangraphs list last year. That’s also a factor

[Spanky__99]

It’s not really them saying Jimenez is amazing or anything, just that the jays system is full of so many question marks, that his fairly high floor is easier to predict. Quite frankly, beyond Moreno and Orelvis, the system has a whole shitload of “who the f*** knows?”

 

The Jays either graduated or traded 6 of their top 12 prospects from fangraphs list last year. That’s also a factor

 

lol... that's what happened! lol

[Ray]

Would be nice if Zach Logue or Bowden Francis emerged as legitimate 5th starter options in 2022.

 

Fangraphs seems to like Bowden Francis a fair bit, labelling him as a high probability backend starter.

[Krylian]

It’s not really them saying Jimenez is amazing or anything, just that the jays system is full of so many question marks, that his fairly high floor is easier to predict. Quite frankly, beyond Moreno and Orelvis, the system has a whole shitload of “who the f*** knows?”

 

The Jays either graduated or traded 6 of their top 12 prospects from fangraphs list last year. That’s also a factor

 

I get that...I just think (personally) when you get to the 'who the f*** knows' category, ceiling should Trump floor. I guess Jimenez has a decent floor (even though I'm not exactly sold on that myself) but I think there are more than a couple of guys that have a way higher ceiling. I just value ceiling more than they did when they assembled this list.

[The_DH]

I get that...I just think (personally) when you get to the 'who the f*** knows' category, ceiling should Trump floor. I guess Jimenez has a decent floor (even though I'm not exactly sold on that myself) but I think there are more than a couple of guys that have a way higher ceiling. I just value ceiling more than they did when they assembled this list.

 

Does it really matter if Jimenez is ranked over Groshans or vice versa? We have them both so what difference does it make? Looks like we need some pitchers and outfielders though.

[John_Havok]

I get that...I just think (personally) when you get to the 'who the f*** knows' category, ceiling should Trump floor. I guess Jimenez has a decent floor (even though I'm not exactly sold on that myself) but I think there are more than a couple of guys that have a way higher ceiling. I just value ceiling more than they did when they assembled this list.

 

Yeha, that just comes down to what list is what though. Some lists out there do nothing but prioritize ceiling, the fangraphs one is trying to predict actual major league contributions. They even acknowledge that some of the guys ranked lower have higher ceilings, but have virtually no data to go on, OR they took a step backwards, like Van Eyk.

 

Looking at last years guys they had ranked ahead of Jimenez, who didn't get traded or graduate off the list... youve got Moreno, Hiraldo, Groshans, Van Eyk, De Castro, Kloffenstein, Smith, Machado, Pardinho and Joey Murray.

 

Moreno aside, which guys on that list actually had a good year?

 

I think it's obvious Beltre has a higher ceiling also, but given that he hasn't even played a game in the minors yet... its reasonable to rank Jiminez higher.

[Jimcanuck]

After Moreno, Orelvis, Hoglund, and Groshans, in that order (tier 1), the next 10 prospects (tier 2) can be ranked in any order really, and you can't say its wrong.

 

The Longenhagen rank of Leo over Groshans is the only head scratcher.

[John_Havok]

Technically, he ranked Groshans and Jimenez in the same tier, so they are pretty interchangeable. In the article he even states that if a player is in the same tier, the order isn't all that relevant.

 

How is that you think he ranked Moreno, Orelvis, Hoglund and Groshans in the same tier when he very clearly didn't?

[Jimcanuck]

Technically, he ranked Groshans and Jimenez in the same tier, so they are pretty interchangeable. In the article he even states that if a player is in the same tier, the order isn't all that relevant.

 

How is that you think he ranked Moreno, Orelvis, Hoglund and Groshans in the same tier when he very clearly didn't?

 

I just looked at the list, didn't read the article. Forgive me, didn't realize how serious and precise these lists are.

[L54]

I don’t think Jim said that. What Jim is saying is that in his opinion there is a clear cut top 4 in the system and after that rankings are based on preference

 

It’s weird to rank Jimenez over Groshans but I also don’t really care

[John_Havok]

I just looked at the list, didn't read the article. Forgive me, didn't realize how serious and precise these lists are.

 

Not overly serious, just when you comment on things that you haven't read, you tend to look like an uninformed ponce.

[Jimcanuck]

Not overly serious, just when you comment on things that you haven't read, you tend to look like an uninformed ponce.

 

This is uncalled for. What L54 wrote is exactly right.

[Ray]

Longenhagen on Austin Martin

 

Galen: Ceiling and floor for Austin Martin? If you were the Twins, would you consider trading him for a starting pitcher?

Eric A Longenhagen: Ceiling is a Zobrist-y type player, floor is something like Luis Urias has been? Narrow band of outcomes for Martin, not likely a big impact guy due to lack of raw power.

 

Still think he can end up being Jonathan India, but the lack of power he's displayed seems like a real concern in every evaluation I've read on him.

[max silver]

Yeha, that just comes down to what list is what though. Some lists out there do nothing but prioritize ceiling, the fangraphs one is trying to predict actual major league contributions. They even acknowledge that some of the guys ranked lower have higher ceilings, but have virtually no data to go on, OR they took a step backwards, like Van Eyk.

 

Looking at last years guys they had ranked ahead of Jimenez, who didn't get traded or graduate off the list... youve got Moreno, Hiraldo, Groshans, Van Eyk, De Castro, Kloffenstein, Smith, Machado, Pardinho and Joey Murray.

 

Moreno aside, which guys on that list actually had a good year?

 

I think it's obvious Beltre has a higher ceiling also, but given that he hasn't even played a game in the minors yet... its reasonable to rank Jiminez higher.

 

Kevin Smith produced a 144 WRC+ in AAA. That's certainly not bad for a guy who looked he was one bad season from washing out of baseball coming into the year. Fangraphs certainly doesn't think much of his hit tool scoring him as a 30. That's pretty harsh for a dude who almost doubled his AA walk rate while simultaneously slashing nearly 9% off of his k rate.

[Jimcanuck]

I think Kevin Smith needs some extended time facing MLB pitching to make the adjustment, but I don't think he will get that opportunity with the Jays. I can see him being a MLB average guy after making the adjustment.

 

He does a 144 wRC again at AAA in 2022, he's prime mid season trade bait.

[John_Havok]

This is uncalled for. What L54 wrote is exactly right.

 

Honestly, I just really wanted to use the word ponce today.

[Jimcanuck]

Honestly, I just really wanted to use the word ponce today.

 

Fair enough, got to grasp the opportunity when it presents itself.

[Krylian]

Does it really matter if Jimenez is ranked over Groshans or vice versa? We have them both so what difference does it make? Looks like we need some pitchers and outfielders though.

 

No list "means" anything. But we're on a Blue Jays forum to discuss and debate things.

[John_Havok]

No list "means" anything. But we're on a Blue Jays forum to discuss and debate things.

 

You just made the list.

 

[Jimcanuck]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/fantasy-baseball-top-100-prospects-for-2022/

 

CBS has J-Rod 1st, completely agree.

[connorp]

Josh Jung #13 I’ll approve

[Grant77]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/fantasy-baseball-top-100-prospects-for-2022/

 

CBS has J-Rod 1st, completely agree.

 

That may be the worst prospect list that any of us will ever read. Holy crap...

[Jimcanuck]

That may be the worst prospect list that any of us will ever read. Holy crap...

 

Some head scratchers in the back end of the list for sure.

[The_DH]

No list "means" anything. But we're on a Blue Jays forum to discuss and debate things.

 

We've got them both, so yea, but when I read the list, I look more at where we're lacking and where we're strong, and it seems the answer is that we need some pitching and outfielders and we've got good infield depth.

[Jimcanuck]

We've got them both, so yea, but when I read the list, I look more at where we're lacking and where we're strong, and it seems the answer is that we need some pitching and outfielders and we've got good infield depth.

 

One thing about pitching.... a lot of good pitching comes "out of nowhere", far more so than position players. Yes it would be better if the Jays had a few more highly regarded pitching prospects in the top 10, but its not as big a problem as it seems.

[Spanky__99]

Still, love y'all nerds. The List is the bomb!

[Abomination]

That may be the worst prospect list that any of us will ever read. Holy crap...

 

Well, it's a prospect list for fantasy sports, not for real life. The two don't always correlate all that well.

[AdamGreenwood]

That may be the worst prospect list that any of us will ever read. Holy crap...

 

Whatever. You can't please everyone. There will always be the usual amount of histrionics.

You've probably claimed a good 5 lists were the 'worst ever'. Let see your list if you're so much smarter.

 

There's really no combination that wouldn't evoke the disdain of a ton of armchair experts that can't tell a fastball from a slider in real life.

[Grant77]

Whatever. You can't please everyone. There will always be the usual amount of histrionics.

You've probably claimed a good 5 lists were the 'worst ever'. Let see your list if you're so much smarter.

 

There's really no combination that wouldn't evoke the disdain of a ton of armchair experts that can't tell a fastball from a slider in real life.

 

You're clearly the smartest person here and could actually play major league baseball, but you choose to grace us with your presence instead. We all bow to your infinite wisdom.

[AdamGreenwood]

No, I'm not an expert. I freely admit that.

The difference is I don't go on rants about how some professional's list is the worst ever.