Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[Jimcanuck]

Well the other trade the Jays offered was apparently was Hoffman, Norris, Pompey and 1 other prospect (I think Alfrord but not sure) for Carrasco.

 

I'd still do that Tulo trade over again even if he's going to cost a few more $ than he's worth these later years.

 

You'd do the Tulo trade over? Serious?

[Brownie19]

Lol Greene's change is 20-25 MPH slower than his fastball. I don't think that's possible without slowing down your arm speed.

 

Has anyone seen video of his change up? I looked for it after I read about this 20-25 MPH drop, but was unsuccessful.

[Vdubfan]

Has anyone seen video of his change up? I looked for it after I read about this 20-25 MPH drop, but was unsuccessful.

 

I could be wrong here, but I think it was just a very poorly worded continuation of the comments on his breaking balls.

[Spanky__99]

I could be wrong here, but I think it was just a very poorly worded continuation of the comments on his breaking balls.

 

I believe you're right, he wouldn't have any success with such a difference in velo.

[Spanky__99]

That Liriano trade for Teoscar and Pannone, might be the trade that keeps on giving.

[burlingtonbandit]

You'd do the Tulo trade over? Serious?

 

Yes. They gave up Hoffman to pay Tulo $50M over 5 years when you factor in Reyes was dead money. You don't really know the alternatives at SS but that team doesn't win the division in 15 or make the wildcard in 16 with Reyes at SS.

[P2F]

That Liriano trade for Teoscar and Pannone, might be the trade that keeps on giving.

 

Pannone came over in the Joe Smith deal, but yeah, he looks like a guy. Samad Taylor, too.

[Daniel Labude]

In hindsight, we gave up even less than we thought probably. 10 out of 10 move, would do it again. Could have been a Donaldson-esque trade if Tulo didn't have arguably the biggest drop off for a star in recent memory.

 

Pretty for sure that was Bautista and his $150 Million dollar contract lol

[TheHurl]

Yes. They gave up Hoffman to pay Tulo $50M over 5 years when you factor in Reyes was dead money. You don't really know the alternatives at SS but that team doesn't win the division in 15 or make the wildcard in 16 with Reyes at SS.

 

I'd also have extended Reyes for 3 years for $50M if it meant 2 guaranteed playoff appearances. Question really is could have Hoffman got you a different SS?

[Jimcanuck]

Yes. They gave up Hoffman to pay Tulo $50M over 5 years when you factor in Reyes was dead money. You don't really know the alternatives at SS but that team doesn't win the division in 15 or make the wildcard in 16 with Reyes at SS.

 

Probably true, but they also likely win with someone other than Tulo or Reyes.

[Spanky__99]

Probably true, but they also likely win with someone other than Tulo or Reyes.

 

Yer dumn, Jim. You think they didn't indulge with every other team with a guy coming off a Tulo type season? Easy Peasy...

[Jimcanuck]

Yer dumn, Jim. You think they didn't indulge with every other team with a guy coming off a Tulo type season? Easy Peasy...

 

You should follow along. BB says in hindsight he would make the Tulo trade again, and says without him the Jays don't make the 2015 and 2016 postseasons.

 

Tulo 2015 wRC+

 

August 86

September/October 70

 

Basically, Barney level with the bat.

 

Do the Jays make the 2015 postseason with someone like Barney at SS? Jays won ALE by 6 games so based on the numbers alone, probably.

[Spanky__99]

You should follow along. BB says in hindsight he would make the Tulo trade again, and says without him the Jays don't make the 2015 and 2016 postseasons.

 

Tulo 2015 wRC+

 

August 86

September/October 70

 

Basically, Barney level with the bat.

 

Do the Jays make the 2015 postseason with someone like Barney at SS? Jays won ALE by 6 games so based on the numbers alone, probably.

 

Likely not. His DRS was excellent plus his numbers in the PS and you know, a better player all round. Next I'll see you advocate Goins.

[Jimcanuck]

Likely not.

 

On what basis do you say that? Tulo was not good after coming over at the deadline. On the field yes, but effectively on the field and at the plate he was not much better than Barney.

[Spanky__99]

On what basis do you say that? Tulo was not good after coming over at the deadline. On the field yes, but effectively on the field and at the plate he was not much better than Barney.

 

See above dummy.

[Jimcanuck]

See above dummy.

 

The gap between 2015 Tulo and a Barney type is a lot less than the 6 games they won ALE by. The gap is like 1 - 1.5 games.

 

No way in hell do I make that trade in hindsight.

[Spanky__99]

The gap between 2015 Tulo and a Barney type is a lot less than the 6 games they won ALE by. The gap is like 1 - 1.5 games.

 

No way in hell do I make that trade in hindsight.

 

There, you said it, cause I know you liked it, lol. Idiot! Captain Hindsight doesn't work here Jim.

[Jimcanuck]

There, you said it, cause I know you liked it, lol. Idiot! Captain Hindsight doesn't work here Jim.

 

LOL, BB is the one that originally said he would make the trade again in hindsight. Try to keep up, ********.

[Spanky__99]

LOL, BB is the one that originally said he would make the trade again in hindsight. Try to keep up, ********.

 

You're a joke... how many times have you cried getting rid of Tulo? Proof's in the pudding old man.

[Jimcanuck]

You're a joke... how many times have you cried getting rid of Tulo? Proof's in the pudding old man.

 

Since the end of 2015 season I have been, and consistently. It can't happen now tho, he's immovable unless the jays eat a huge portion of the salary.

[Spanky__99]

Since the end of 2015 season I have been, and consistently. It can't happen now tho, he's immovable unless the jays eat a huge portion of the salary.

 

lulz

[burlingtonbandit]

You should follow along. BB says in hindsight he would make the Tulo trade again, and says without him the Jays don't make the 2015 and 2016 postseasons.

 

Tulo 2015 wRC+

 

August 86

September/October 70

 

Basically, Barney level with the bat.

 

Do the Jays make the 2015 postseason with someone like Barney at SS? Jays won ALE by 6 games so based on the numbers alone, probably.

 

Yeah but it doesn't work in a vaccum like that. Players wouldn't have reacted the same to releasing Reyes and having Barney start at SS. Like it or not Reyes had a certain stature in that clubhouse. The Tulo trade was perfect in the sense you could get rid of Reyes and players couldn't really say anything since Tulo was an upgrade.

[Spanky__99]

Yeah but it doesn't work in a vaccum like that. Players wouldn't have reacted the same to releasing Reyes and having Barney start at SS. Like it or not Reyes had a certain stature in that clubhouse. The Tulo trade was perfect in the sense you could get rid of Reyes and players couldn't really say anything since Tulo was an upgrade.

 

He's an idiot.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'd also have extended Reyes for 3 years for $50M if it meant 2 guaranteed playoff appearances. Question really is could have Hoffman got you a different SS?

 

Yeah thats the question only FO executives would have known. That team sure wasn't going to win with Reyes at SS though. Thinking back I believe he blew 2 games with his defense in the 9th inning alone.

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah but it doesn't work in a vaccum like that. Players wouldn't have reacted the same to releasing Reyes and having Barney start at SS. Like it or not Reyes had a certain stature in that clubhouse. The Tulo trade was perfect in the sense you could get rid of Reyes and players couldn't really say anything since Tulo was an upgrade.

 

I agree with that. Strictly by the numbers, the Jays still make the postseason. But there are other intangibles, which I why I said "probably".

[Spanky__99]

I agree with that. Strictly by the numbers, the Jays still make the postseason. But there are other intangibles, which I why I said "probably".

 

lol...

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5114-Tulo-and-Hawkins-to-the-Jays-for-Reyes-Castro-Hoffman-and-Tinoco?p=1206659&viewfull=1#post1206659

[TheHurl]

I agree with that. Strictly by the numbers, the Jays still make the postseason. But there are other intangibles, which I why I said "probably".

 

By the numbers Tulo has barely helped us at all (much sooner than I predicted). I honestly don't know what to give credit for a 43-18 run. To say Price and Tulo provided that is ridiculous. It was a lot luck, a lot positive mindset...a little on the team being improved. Did I mention a lot luck

[Cbert]

By the numbers Tulo has barely helped us at all (much sooner than I predicted). I honestly don't know what to give credit for a 43-18 run. To say Price and Tulo provided that is ridiculous. It was a lot luck, a lot positive mindset...a little on the team being improved. Did I mention a lot luck

 

I think it was more Price and the return of Stroman that provided a boost. Also, wasn't the Jays record far worse than it should've been leading up to the deadline? It seems more like the bad luck that plagued them all season disappeared.

[Maahfaace]

I think it was more Price and the return of Stroman that provided a boost. Also, wasn't the Jays record far worse than it should've been leading up to the deadline? It seems more like the bad luck that plagued them all season disappeared.

 

Indeed it was, I believe at the time of the trade the Jays had near the best run differential in the AL, which contributed greatly to AA wanting to go all in.

[G-Snarls]

I think it was more Price and the return of Stroman that provided a boost. Also, wasn't the Jays record far worse than it should've been leading up to the deadline? It seems more like the bad luck that plagued them all season disappeared.

 

Absolutely

 

Suddenly having Price and Stroman at the front of the rotation had a massive and immediate impact

 

Tulo stabilized the IF defense though even though he probably didn't hit any better than Reyes