Blue Jays to hire Mark Shapiro as new president/CEO following 2015

[Angrioter]

Sources: Decision coming soon for Indians president Mark Shapiro and his possible future with Blue Jays

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2015/08/indians_mark_shapiro_terry_fra.html

[burlingtonbandit]

Interesting. Not sure how to feel about this. If he is strictly here for business I think its a good move but at this point I think AA deserves to have full control over baseball operations.

[burlingtonbandit]

This is very exciting. Be excited.

 

Well first of all he hasn't come here yet. What if Shapiro brings his own GM in and AA leaves? Don't see how thats exciting as a blue jays fan tbh.

[guylaroche5]

Well first of all he hasn't come here yet. What if Shapiro brings his own GM in and AA leaves? Don't see how thats exciting as a blue jays fan tbh.

 

Smarter ownership doesn't excite you? Did you not see what Luhnow has accomplished with an Astros team that was the laughing stock of the league a year ago?

[Rajais Mitten]

Smarter ownership doesn't excite you? Did you not see what Luhnow has accomplished with an Astros team that was the laughing stock of the league a year ago?

 

If AA is let go only for Shapiro to bring in his own guy who may be worse I can see how he could not be totally thrilled and a bit cautious

[guylaroche5]

If AA is let go only for Shapiro to bring in his own guy who may be worse I can see how he could not be totally thrilled and a bit cautious

 

I'm actually extremely interested in where AA would end up if he became a 'free agent.' I'd bet the Mariners!

[burlingtonbandit]

Smarter ownership doesn't excite you? Did you not see what Luhnow has accomplished with an Astros team that was the laughing stock of the league a year ago?

 

Well he's not an owner. If he's the president of Business Operations I love this move 100%. If he wants to meddle with the baseball operations then I am less thrilled.

 

Now if he lets AA be the GM and manager the players etc... and Shapiro overhauls the facility including bringing in sports medicine analytics and improves that side of the franchise I would be very happy.

[dineke]

Well first of all he hasn't come here yet. What if Shapiro brings his own GM in and AA leaves? Don't see how thats exciting as a blue jays fan tbh.

 

AA is good but a new gm wouldn't be the end of the world.

[burlingtonbandit]

Mark Shapiro is a great baseball mind. He would be an asset to this organization and has presidential experience.

 

Evidence he's a better baseball mind than Alex Anthopolous though? AA has bulit the best team in the AL and maybe all of baseball this season. He's had his bad moments but so has every GM and the good far outweighs the bad.

[burlingtonbandit]

AA is good but a new gm wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

I dunno just seems weird to do with what has happened this year. If a new GM was brought in I'd think the players wouldn't be happy as well.

[deepz]

I dunno just seems weird to do with what has happened this year. If a new GM was brought in I'd think the players wouldn't be happy as well.

 

The players won't care. AA isn't the apex of general managing. IF we miss the playoffs, he should be fired.

[deepz]

Evidence he's a better baseball mind than Alex Anthopolous though? AA has bulit the best team in the AL and maybe all of baseball this season. He's had his bad moments but so has every GM and the good far outweighs the bad.

 

He built it by almost completely gutting his farm system, adding lots of money and a longterm commitment with Tulowitzki. And the best team in baseball will be the one that wins the world series. AA needs to have this team not only make the playoffs but make some noise for those moves to have had paid off.

[burlingtonbandit]

There is no hard evidence and I never said AA was an inferior baseball mind. They don't need to be compared here.

 

I believe Shapiro is an especially good choice for president and that this represents a good outcome considering who else Rogers is likely to be considering.

 

I will say that last part is very true. Considering we were hearing names like Kenny Williams and Terry Ryan etc.. Shapiro would be an excellent hire.

 

Definitely sounds like he has been offered the job, now its up to him to take it or not.

[burlingtonbandit]

He built it by almost completely gutting his farm system, adding lots of money and a longterm commitment with Tulowitzki. And the best team in baseball will be the one that wins the world series. AA needs to have this team not only make the playoffs but make some noise for those moves to have had paid off.

 

Come on....

[Followthelight]

He sounds a lot better then that Dinosaur Beeston to me.

[deepz]

Come on....

 

Not adding Shapiro because: a) the players supposedly would be upset because AA has built supposedly the best team in baseball is crazy.

 

You add guys like Shapiro when you get a chance. He would be a good president. Most likely would retain AA if we make the playoffs.

[metafour]

IF we miss the playoffs, he should be fired.

 

Why? He's done all he can to build a roster that at this point is a shoe-in for the playoffs and a strong contender to compete for it all. If by some chance this team somehow completely falls apart and misses the playoffs, it will be for reasons that are out of the GM's control.

[deepz]

Why? He's done all he can to build a roster that at this point is a shoe-in for the playoffs and a strong contender to compete for it all. If by some chance this team somehow completely falls apart and misses the playoffs, it will be for reasons that are out of the GM's control.

 

He's had five years to make the playoffs. We don't live in a vacuum of one year. GM is a results-based job, if he can't make the playoffs in five years, that's on him. He's had his shot, he's been given massive payroll spending compared to his predecessors. You can blame it on the players if we miss, but you can't blame five years of no-playoffs on a GM getting bad luck.

[TwistedLogic]

I don't have much of an opinion on this, other than not wanting a new regime change to create a power struggle in the front office. Other than that, I'm just glad that they aren't settling on a moron like Kenny Williams.

[JaysAllMighty]

The players won't care. AA isn't the apex of general managing. IF we miss the playoffs, he should be fired.

 

Troll

[burlingtonbandit]

He's had five years to make the playoffs. We don't live in a vacuum of one year. GM is a results-based job, if he can't make the playoffs in five years, that's on him. He's had his shot, he's been given massive payroll spending compared to his predecessors. You can blame it on the players if we miss, but you can't blame five years of no-playoffs on a GM getting bad luck.

 

Donaldson Trade, Tulo trade, Devon Travis trade, Martin signing were 4 of the best moves of any team this year. The current team has the most talent of any team in Baseball and you want to say that it doesn't matter depending on what might happen in a 5 game series? What more impressive is this team has a lot of guys who seem like great teammates and good character. Its really impressive that a team this talented has those traits as well.

[Angrioter]

Interesting. Not sure how to feel about this. If he is strictly here for business I think its a good move but at this point I think AA deserves to have full control over baseball operations.

 

AA is good, but Shapiro is great

 

It wouldn’t change the amount of money spent?

 

Shapiro: It would change the amount of spent to 15 million dollars a year. What does that buy you in free agency? Very little. One and a half wins.

 

 

 

 

How is that figure determined?

 

Shapiro: Our analysts can put a value on what it costs in free agency to sign a player and what that means in Wins Above Replacement and what those players end up costing in free agency and that changes every year. They measure all the players signed in free agency and what their history has been and what they offer going forward and they place a value. The challenge in free agency is you’re often paying for that in the first year of a contract, and in the out years of a contract the players WAR usually goes down because he’s usually past his prime. So it becomes a less efficient contract over time. That’s why free agency is never the best way to build. It’s a good way to supplement but not build.

 

 

 

So $8 million for one win?

 

Shapiro: It’s $9 (million) now. It was $8 (million) two yeas ago. I think at the end of this year they figured out it was nine. And when those wins come in the win curve are important. What does that win mean if it’s the difference between 80 and 81? Very little. But if that win’s the difference between 89 and 90, that could be a meaningful win.

 

 

 

Aren’t there certain players though that could be worth more than that? The right guy and the right fit could mean more than that?

 

Shapiro: I think there are certain players at certain positions that might be able to leverage impact on other players. Like a catcher for sure. Maybe a leadership component. More than stats alone. We factor those things in. There are certain subjective roles to what certain guys bring to the table beyond just the objective analysis of ‘this is what their added value is.’

 

But you have to find some way to place a value on what guys bring to the table. We don’t use those conventional stats. We use our own methodology. It does factor subjective and scouting information and makeup and personality and character and all those things in. In the end you’re adding up and trying to determine how many wins that player impacts when you bring him on board. That’s what you’re trying to figure out.

 

 

http://99gifs.com/-img/5044fba6afa96f1e1900027c.gif

[RealAccountant]

Smarter ownership doesn't excite you? Did you not see what Luhnow has accomplished with an Astros team that was the laughing stock of the league a year ago?

 

Yeah and AA has turned the Jays into serious world series contenders.

 

Shapiro has done nothing in more than a decade with the Indians. Two baseball minds simply will not co exist here.

[nmrch]

Donaldson Trade, Tulo trade, Devon Travis trade, Martin signing were 4 of the best moves of any team this year. The current team has the most talent of any team in Baseball and you want to say that it doesn't matter depending on what might happen in a 5 game series? What more impressive is this team has a lot of guys who seem like great teammates and good character. Its really impressive that a team this talented has those traits as well.

 

One 90 win season(knock on wood!) in 5 years and a bottom 10 farm system. For every Donaldson trade there's a Syndergaard trade and for every Travis trade there's a Gomes trade. A GM isn't just responsible for the sucess of the big league club in a given year. If we were to rank how every organization did in the last 5 years, not just in wins and playoff success but also accumulation of assets and getting value for the buck, do you think the Jays would be in the top 15 ? I somehow doubt it. Just because AA's successes have been backloaded doesn't mean he deserves an extention.

 

Shapiro should be given complete freedom to hire who ever he wants. AA hasn't done enough to be given immunity under new management.

[metafour]

He's had five years to make the playoffs. We don't live in a vacuum of one year. GM is a results-based job, if he can't make the playoffs in five years, that's on him. He's had his shot, he's been given massive payroll spending compared to his predecessors. You can blame it on the players if we miss, but you can't blame five years of no-playoffs on a GM getting bad luck.

 

Are you kidding me? How many of those 5 years were spent clearly re-tooling the minor league system which ultimately BUILT this currently dominant team? When he took over, his first orders of business were trading away the team's best player (Halladay) and dumping the crippling albatross salary of Wells, the team's ~2nd or ~3rd best player. Does that sound like a team "pushing for the playoffs"? Of course not; it was a re-tooling job. You can't use rebuilding years against him and argue that he didn't make the playoffs in those seasons, that is absurd. His playoff "window" was last season and this season. Last year the team flopped and he rightfully entered this season on the hot-seat. This season, the results speak for themselves. These last two years are what you judge his "playoff expectation" on, not the first few seasons when he was tasked with getting rid of the best players on the team.

[TwistedLogic]

Are you kidding me? How many of those 5 years were spent clearly re-tooling the minor league system which ultimately BUILT this currently dominant team? When he took over, his first orders of business were trading away the team's best player (Halladay) and dumping the crippling albatross salary of Wells, the team's ~2nd or ~3rd best player. Does that sound like a team "pushing for the playoffs"? Of course not; it was a re-tooling job. You can't use rebuilding years against him and argue that he didn't make the playoffs in those seasons, that is absurd. His playoff "window" was last season and this season. Last year the team flopped and he rightfully entered this season on the hot-seat. This season, the results speak for themselves. These last two years are what you judge his "playoff expectation" on, not the first few seasons when he was tasked with getting rid of the best players on the team.

 

As much as I defend Anthopolous on here, you can't write off 2013 as a "retooling" year. The "window" began with the Mets and Marlins deals. It's not a question of whether it should have started there, but the fact that they made those trades tells us that they believed they were ready.

[deepz]

Are you kidding me? How many of those 5 years were spent clearly re-tooling the minor league system which ultimately BUILT this currently dominant team? When he took over, his first orders of business were trading away the team's best player (Halladay) and dumping the crippling albatross salary of Wells, the team's ~2nd or ~3rd best player. Does that sound like a team "pushing for the playoffs"? Of course not; it was a re-tooling job. You can't use rebuilding years against him and argue that he didn't make the playoffs in those seasons, that is absurd. His playoff "window" was last season and this season. Last year the team flopped and he rightfully entered this season on the hot-seat. This season, the results speak for themselves. These last two years are what you judge his "playoff expectation" on, not the first few seasons when he was tasked with getting rid of the best players on the team.

 

I actually like AA. I just think preventing the Jays from hiring Shapiro because we have AA is silly. Shapiro is a good baseball mind and would be a good president. My point is AA hasn't done anything yet. 2013 we were considered "contenders" at the beginning of the season and by some, during that win streak. Fizzled. Last year? No additions at the deadline, and we dropped out. This year we're having a great season but again, it's results-based. IF AA misses, that's on him.

 

And by the way, does anyone watch other teams? The fact that AA is so overhyped here makes me think you don't watch the Cardinals. Somehow they've managed to re-tool while still competing for the playoffs. So have the Giants. This is what I mean when I say AA is not the king of GMs like some here believe.

[nmrch]

Also for the record, AA was handed a pretty good big league team, coming off an 86 win year. Granted they still finished 4th but you don't get to excuse the first two years because they're rebuilding years when the decision to rebuild was AA's in teh first place. He could have easily chosen to retool and tried to compete with Halladay. MAybe we wouldn't have been better off(although the ultimate return on the Halladay trade suggests that we would have) but AA made an active choice to tear it down, it was not inevitable.

[deepz]

AA is good, but Shapiro is great

 

 

 

His WAR quote is fantastic. I like that kind of talk from a president.

[TwistedLogic]

If AA's guys can continue working on the minor league system, and Shapiro and whoever he brings in can get some control over the major league roster (specifically the back end of the 25-man), this could turn into a very good front office. They both seem to understand that free agency is better as a supplement as opposed to a major building block, and they both seem to understand that there is at least somewhat of an intangible component outside of the pure stats, but Shapiro seems to have a clearly better understanding and appreciation of sabermetrics.

 

Considering where the Jays are right now, it's probably a good sign that they're looking at someone who understands the value of a win on the win curve.