AA Approval Rating (All-Star Break)

[Brownie19]

No it isn't. A pitcher has little if any control over their win/loss record. The GM has almost total control over the team's win/loss record.

 

If a pitcher has a losing record, it could be that they just suck at pitching in the major leagues, but it's equally possible that they're not getting enough run support and/or defensive help. If a team has a losing record, the GM failed to put together a roster that is conducive to winning.

 

Right - the GM has total control over injuries (Stroman, Saunders, Reyes, Lawrie, Bautista, Santos, Morrow, Sanchez, etc.) as well as which players under and over perform. TOTAL CONTROL. There is absolutely no chance in the game of baseball - the GM is the only person who control's which teams win and which teams lose. FYSMC.

[SultanofPoon]

I put neither.

 

But I love people that bash the Marlins deal, yet at the time of it there was discussion about some in the industry wanting to have it disallowed because it was so one sided.

 

Wish I had 20/20 hindsight too.

 

People are dumb not surprising...but many new johnson was a risk and Reyes was always overrated. Many saw the deal then as s***...problem is that is the least of AA failings.

[glory]

I put neither.

 

But I love people that bash the Marlins deal, yet at the time of it there was discussion about some in the industry wanting to have it disallowed because it was so one sided.

 

Wish I had 20/20 hindsight too.

 

Reyes and Johnson were terrible pick ups due to contract and health for both players (JJ being an impending FA). The only parts of the deal that had any redeemable qualities were Buehrle and possibly Bonifacio if he was used in a super utility role (he was not a 2B). You don't give up that type of haul for what the Jays got back. If a homophobic slur was enough to throw away an asset like that, then f*** this damn organization. No one remembered that s*** even six months after it happened, probably sooner.

 

Everyone knew the Padres and White Sox were going to suck this year, but people were blinded by the Jays when they did the exact same thing years ago? Come on.

[Maahfaace]

When Beeston is replaced we might find out what really happened in 2012 and who made the decisions. The 2012 trades were anomalies. The trades before and after have been either good or debatable at least.

 

Any real good gm wouldn't let a baffoon like Beeston decide a trade like that. If that came out to be true after Beeston goes I'd lose even more respect for AA

[Jimcanuck]

Any real good gm wouldn't let a baffoon like Beeston decide a trade like that. If that came out to be true after Beeston goes I'd lose even more respect for AA

 

What? If you boss gives you a non-illegal order, you do it or you gone. Are you suggesting AA should have resigned based on principle?

[Brownie19]

I put neither.

 

But I love people that bash the Marlins deal, yet at the time of it there was discussion about some in the industry wanting to have it disallowed because it was so one sided.

 

Wish I had 20/20 hindsight too.

 

I agree with this. I find it odd that so many people jump all over the Marlins deal.

 

Hech has put up 0.0 WAR over 2.5 season with the Marlins

Alvarez: 4.1 WAR

DeSclafani: 1.5 WAR

Escobar: 5.1 WAR

Marisnick: 1.0 WAR and no longer much of a prospect

Nicolino: 0.0 WAR and no longer much of a prospect

 

Meanwhile, Buehrle has put up 6.8 WAR and Reyes another 7.0 WAR. I don't think many if any were sad to see Escobar go, yet he's the best of the bunch so far and I know very few though highly of DeSclafani. I get that Buehrle and Reyes cost a lot - but they've been wayyyy better than the package AA gave up and let's be honest, with the ORGANIZATIONAL restriction on length of FA contracts (which does hamper AA's ability) - it's hard to get FA's to sign here when all you have is Jose/Edwin and a bunch of prospects.

[Deadpool]

Approve, based on solid drafting/development, some very shrewd trades and seriously good extensions (Have to give him credit in particular for the insane extension he signed Escobar to, even though he was shipped out...)

 

I do not hate the Marlins trade, I absolutely loathe the Dickey trade with the burning hot intensity of a thousand white-hot suns (and have been consistent on this since the day it happened). He got an excellent return for Halladay, particularly considering Roy was very public that he was not going to re-sign with the Jays. He got literally anything for Wells, saving a LOT of payroll (Remember, Wells would have been paid $21M to do literally nothing last year, and next to nothing for the years leading up to last year).

 

Also, Donaldson... C'mon.

 

Could be far, far better, but he's built up a strong foundation, and has been adding solid pieces to it.

[RealAccountant]

Over AAs tenure I would argue that the Jays have has less major injuries than any other team in AL East

 

Move on ppl injury has not been an excuse for AA.

[RealAccountant]

I agree with this. I find it odd that so many people jump all over the Marlins deal.

 

Hech has put up 0.0 WAR over 2.5 season with the Marlins

Alvarez: 4.1 WAR

DeSclafani: 1.5 WAR

Escobar: 5.1 WAR

Marisnick: 1.0 WAR and no longer much of a prospect

Nicolino: 0.0 WAR and no longer much of a prospect

 

Meanwhile, Buehrle has put up 6.8 WAR and Reyes another 7.0 WAR. I don't think many if any were sad to see Escobar go, yet he's the best of the bunch so far and I know very few though highly of DeSclafani. I get that Buehrle and Reyes cost a lot - but they've been wayyyy better than the package AA gave up and let's be honest, with the ORGANIZATIONAL restriction on length of FA contracts (which does hamper AA's ability) - it's hard to get FA's to sign here when all you have is Jose/Edwin and a bunch of prospects.

 

That's good.don't count the additional $40 mil a year in payroll

[RealAccountant]

Reyes and Johnson were terrible pick ups due to contract and health for both players (JJ being an impending FA). The only parts of the deal that had any redeemable qualities were Buehrle and possibly Bonifacio if he was used in a super utility role (he was not a 2B). You don't give up that type of haul for what the Jays got back. If a homophobic slur was enough to throw away an asset like that, then f*** this damn organization. No one remembered that s*** even six months after it happened, probably sooner.

 

Everyone knew the Padres and White Sox were going to suck this year, but people were blinded by the Jays when they did the exact same thing years ago? Come on.

 

No one cared and Escobar also apologized

[RealAccountant]

I put neither.

 

But I love people that bash the Marlins deal, yet at the time of it there was discussion about some in the industry wanting to have it disallowed because it was so one sided.

 

Wish I had 20/20 hindsight too.

 

Yes but management is paid on assessing current elements for future outcomes. If all there is to management is to judge on current evaluations with no regards for future outcomes assessments then get rid of AA and just make all decisions based on fangraphs WAR

[RealAccountant]

People are dumb not surprising...but many new johnson was a risk and Reyes was always overrated. Many saw the deal then as s***...problem is that is the least of AA failings.

 

We would be a playoff team today if we never made the 2012 trades

[Nightmaul]

We would be a playoff team today if we never made the 2012 trades

 

Please stop posting, I can't take it anymore.

[glory]

Please stop posting, I can't take it anymore.

 

Other than Buehrle, who has been amazing for us, how would the Jays not be in much better shape without those trades? Gomes or TDA at catcher, Syndergaard/Alvarez/DeSclafani/Nicolino as rotation options in addition to Stroman/Hutchison/Sanchez, Escobar/Hech middle infield, and so on. Now, granted, you can't assume many of the other things would have happened if the Jays didn't make those moves (Donaldson in particular), but I think the potential for a playoff team was far greater today if they stayed the course rather than the alternative. We should be the Pirates of the AL right now, or at least the Mets.

[Swervin81]

I'm neutral. He's gonna leave the org with a bright future (especially pitching) in a top tier farm and Donaldson/Martin as the leadership group going forward, but his inability to build a major league pitching staff has been awful and unacceptable.

[RealAccountant]

Other than Buehrle, who has been amazing for us, how would the Jays not be in much better shape without those trades? Gomes or TDA at catcher, Syndergaard/Alvarez/DeSclafani/Nicolino as rotation options in addition to Stroman/Hutchison/Sanchez, Escobar/Hech middle infield, and so on. Now, granted, you can't assume many of the other things would have happened if the Jays didn't make those moves (Donaldson in particular), but I think the potential for a playoff team was far greater today if they stayed the course rather than the alternative. We should be the Pirates of the AL right now, or at least the Mets.

 

Not to mention a $50 Mil payroll with addons in all the rigth places

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Is AA awesome? No. But has he made some fantastic moves that only a ninja GM could? Yes.

 

If we fire him, fine. But who takes over? Is there a GM star available at the moment?

 

You take even the star GMs, and look at all their trades, I'll bet they still lose 40% of the time.

 

FYSMC

[jaysfan2014]

Other than Buehrle, who has been amazing for us, how would the Jays not be in much better shape without those trades? Gomes or TDA at catcher, Syndergaard/Alvarez/DeSclafani/Nicolino as rotation options in addition to Stroman/Hutchison/Sanchez, Escobar/Hech middle infield, and so on. Now, granted, you can't assume many of the other things would have happened if the Jays didn't make those moves (Donaldson in particular), but I think the potential for a playoff team was far greater today if they stayed the course rather than the alternative. We should be the Pirates of the AL right now, or at least the Mets.

 

We would be a horrible team with those guys. Will you give this a rest already? And Escobar was traded due to racial slurs in his eye paint, and ownership didn't exactly want that image. And that Pirates team went through 20 years of futility.. and we cannot afford ANY 100 loss seasons, especially being a big market team.

 

TDA would've frequented the DL.. he still isn't staying healthy with the Mets. And BTW, we're better off with Russell Martin catching. Yan Gomes can't take a walk to save his life this season (.218/.234/.327, 44K/3BB), and that deal the Indians gave him is going to end up being an albatross on the Indians franchise in coming years when the big money comes in (it's heavily backloaded). Plus, he's been hurt.

 

As for the starters, outside of Syndergaard, none of those guys would survive in the AL East.

Nicolino's numbers in AAA are awful(1.406 WHIP) plus a 4.62 FIP in the majors, which likely explains why he hasn't gotten a chance in Miami. Henderson Alvarez has been awful and hurt this season. DeSclafani has been mediocre at best, and needs a trade out of Cincy (his road numbers are much better). He cannot pitch in a small ballpark.. he needs to be in a market like San Diego, Pittsburgh or somewhere like that. Only Syndergaard is a real regret for AA.. of course, whether Noah lasts in NY will depend on ownership not making a stupid move, such as trading him for a big bat (which I can see happening, as they are under orders to make the playoffs or risk Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson losing their jobs at season's end. The Mets desperately need offense, and Syndergaard's their best trade piece.)

[Smokey]

Overall I said strongly disapprove, mostly on the basis of whether or not I think this team can win the World Series with him as a GM.

 

Obviously we could have it worse (RAJ), but I don't think the possibility of being worse is enough for him to earn any sort of positive endorsement for his 6 year track record, IMO.

 

Exactly! I've yet to hear a compelling argument regarding him being capable of taking the team to the next level because he's pretty much proven that he can't! By his own admission we've been all-in for 3 years now and during that time he's handed starting jobs to guys like JPA, Bonifacio, Goins, Dustin McGowan and not to mention the 6 rookies from this year... And pretty much all those decisions were made without a contingency in place in case they fail. He's lucky that Pillar has emerged as a semi decent everyday player or else we would be looking at Bautista as the only major league OF on the team. But ya, he's made the Donaldson trade and he's not the worst GM so let's keep him around for another 6 years...

 

Right - the GM has total control over injuries (Stroman, Saunders, Reyes, Lawrie, Bautista, Santos, Morrow, Sanchez, etc.) as well as which players under and over perform. TOTAL CONTROL. There is absolutely no chance in the game of baseball - the GM is the only person who control's which teams win and which teams lose. FYSMC.

 

If you've actually watched him in action over the past 3 years and still think that the circumstances out of his control have led to the losing record, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Approve, based on solid drafting/development, some very shrewd trades and seriously good extensions (Have to give him credit in particular for the insane extension he signed Escobar to, even though he was shipped out...)

 

Deadpool is dead wrong! I actually think he gets far too much credit for his drafting/development because of who he has replaced. JPR was never given the same flexibility that AA enjoys, having a much bigger budget and the opportunity to grab higher ceiling high-school kids. Besides, what good are prospects if you don't hold on to the best ones and instead use them mostly as currency to acquire aging veterans.

 

I also think he gets too much credit for his "shrewd trades" since he has been under very little pressure to make most of those moves. He does deserve some credit of course but it's hard to dismiss the fact that he was mostly dealing from a position of strength making deals that he didn't have to make. Even the Donaldson trade wasn't a move he had to make since he was already very comfortable with Lawrie at 3B. The only somewhat shrewd move he's made that has actually addressed a direct need was the Travis trade and even that came at the expense of sacrificing OF depth. The rest of the moves, like the Lawrie for marcum trade, are not moves most GMs can afford to make since it temporarily weakens their big league roster.

 

And those insane extensions aren't something a GM can build a career on since after a few, the agents catch up to the fact that he's a tightwad and will refuse to negotiate with him exclusively in the future. It's definitely not something he'd want to build a reputation on and besides, what good are those extensions if he ends up trading assets for someone like Reyes and strap himself financially away?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Smokey

[RealAccountant]

Is AA awesome? No. But has he made some fantastic moves that only a ninja GM could? Yes.

 

If we fire him, fine. But who takes over? Is there a GM star available at the moment?

 

You take even the star GMs, and look at all their trades, I'll bet they still lose 40% of the time.

 

FYSMC

 

I think AA would make a great assistant GM

[Zaun of the Dead]

I voted approve.

[glory]

We would be a horrible team with those guys. Will you give this a rest already? And Escobar was traded due to racial slurs in his eye paint, and ownership didn't exactly want that image. And that Pirates team went through 20 years of futility.. and we cannot afford ANY 100 loss seasons, especially being a big market team.

 

TDA would've frequented the DL.. he still isn't staying healthy with the Mets. And BTW, we're better off with Russell Martin catching. Yan Gomes can't take a walk to save his life this season (.218/.234/.327, 44K/3BB), and that deal the Indians gave him is going to end up being an albatross on the Indians franchise in coming years when the big money comes in (it's heavily backloaded). Plus, he's been hurt.

 

As for the starters, outside of Syndergaard, none of those guys would survive in the AL East.

Nicolino's numbers in AAA are awful(1.406 WHIP) plus a 4.62 FIP in the majors, which likely explains why he hasn't gotten a chance in Miami. Henderson Alvarez has been awful and hurt this season. DeSclafani has been mediocre at best, and needs a trade out of Cincy (his road numbers are much better). He cannot pitch in a small ballpark.. he needs to be in a market like San Diego, Pittsburgh or somewhere like that. Only Syndergaard is a real regret for AA.. of course, whether Noah lasts in NY will depend on ownership not making a stupid move, such as trading him for a big bat (which I can see happening, as they are under orders to make the playoffs or risk Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson losing their jobs at season's end. The Mets desperately need offense, and Syndergaard's their best trade piece.)

 

1. The Jays could have done a ton of s*** that off-season that did not involve trading prospects. The Angels were dumping Ervin Santana and Dan Haren's contracts for nothing that off-season. The Jays could have taken Santana's contract for nothing and paid him $13m in 2013 (better than trading for Dickey). Instead they were passing the f***ing hat around for donations a year later to sign him after coming off a better season rather than buying low on him the year before. They could have signed Bartolo Colon coming off his suspension. He signed for peanuts with the A's. They could have taken Haren's contract (though he was probably a poor fit for the RC). I could go on. I believe he almost traded for Jake Peavy in the exact same scenario I mentioned, but Peavy ended up re-signing with the White Sox. So clearly he had that idea but chose to go the other route, which was stupid.

 

2. Are you kidding me? Yan Gomes was an 8 WAR player combined the past two seasons (injured this season). He would have still been on a pre-arbitration salary if not for the Indians extending him. That amount of excess value would have been insanely valuable. The fact that AA had him parading around as a 3B in the minors when he's a top level defensive catcher/framer is a strike against AA as well for not realizing what he had. TDA could have been traded for someone better if you were afraid of his injury history. Why a 38-year old knuckleballer with no where to go but down?

 

3. Of course not all the pitching prospects or prospects in general were going to pan out. No one has said he had to keep all of them. But trading them for 30+ year old vets on free agent contracts when the team was coming off 73 wins made absolutely no sense at all. If you enter 2013 with all your prospects and a rotation of Santana, Colon, Alvarez, Happ, Morrow, Romero, etc, then yeah, that's probably a .500 team at best, but a .500 team with tons of flexibility and assets.

 

4. The gay slur was way overblown. yes, it was stupid of Escobar to do, but no one remembered that afterwards. It was a non-issue. He apologized. The team thinking that trading him made any sort of goodwill to the fan base is so naive that it's mind boggling. No one cared. Move on and take advantage of the asset.

[jaysfan2014]

1. The Jays could have done a ton of s*** that off-season that did not involve trading prospects. The Angels were dumping Ervin Santana and Dan Haren's contracts for nothing that off-season. The Jays could have taken Santana's contract for nothing and paid him $13m in 2013 (better than trading for Dickey). Instead they were passing the f***ing hat around for donations a year later to sign him after coming off a better season rather than buying low on him the year before. They could have signed Bartolo Colon coming off his suspension. He signed for peanuts with the A's. They could have taken Haren's contract (though he was probably a poor fit for the RC). I could go on. I believe he almost traded for Jake Peavy in the exact same scenario I mentioned, but Peavy ended up re-signing with the White Sox. So clearly he had that idea but chose to go the other route, which was stupid.

 

2. Are you kidding me? Yan Gomes was an 8 WAR player combined the past two seasons (injured this season). He would have still been on a pre-arbitration salary if not for the Indians extending him. That amount of excess value would have been insanely valuable. The fact that AA had him parading around as a 3B in the minors when he's a top level defensive catcher/framer is a strike against AA as well for not realizing what he had. TDA could have been traded for someone better if you were afraid of his injury history. Why a 38-year old knuckleballer with no where to go but down?

 

3. Of course not all the pitching prospects or prospects in general were going to pan out. No one has said he had to keep all of them. But trading them for 30+ year old vets on free agent contracts when the team was coming off 73 wins made absolutely no sense at all. If you enter 2013 with all your prospects and a rotation of Santana, Colon, Alvarez, Happ, Morrow, Romero, etc, then yeah, that's probably a .500 team at best, but a .500 team with tons of flexibility and assets.

 

4. The gay slur was way overblown. yes, it was stupid of Escobar to do, but no one remembered that afterwards. It was a non-issue. He apologized. The team thinking that trading him made any sort of goodwill to the fan base is so naive that it's mind boggling. No one cared. Move on and take advantage of the asset.

 

I understand what you mean. But Escobar had to be dealt. His gay slur was unacceptable, especially on a big market team. Plus, we would've been complaining about his declining defense in 2014 (he was SO bad at SS last year, worse than Reyes.. and he's still bad defensively at 3B in Washington.) And BTW, neither Ervin Santana nor Colon are fits in Toronto due to their flyball tendencies. And Peavy was already starting his decline phase by that point. Don't you remember his awful 2014?

 

As for Yan Gomes.. the Indians would've been better off waiting before giving him an extension. His 2015 season has been a huge disappointment.. knee and neck injuries have hurt, plus Roberto Perez should be starting on an MLB team right now..he's as good, if not better defensively than Gomes, and actually has plate discipline, something Gomes seems to lack..

 

And Romero was terrible, and Morrow couldn't stay healthy. Aren't we forgetting that? And we were a 100 loss team with that 2012 roster in 2013 if we had stayed with that roster.. Santana and Colon would've turned down Toronto.

[ElNik2013]

For the umpteenth time, AA was ordered to get rid of Escobar. This is a franchise that operates this way.

 

Take the 5-year policy on contracts? Does anyone think a GM would announce such a policy to the FA world?

 

How about not dealing with one of the most prominent agents in MLB? Why would a GM limit himself like that?

 

 

There are bigger issues than the GM. This is not to say I think AA has done a great job, but this franchise has bigger problems.

[RealAccountant]

For the umpteenth time, AA was ordered to get rid of Escobar. This is a franchise that operates this way.

 

Take the 5-year policy on contracts? Does anyone think a GM would announce such a policy to the FA world?

 

How about not dealing with one of the most prominent agents in MLB? Why would a GM limit himself like that?

 

 

There are bigger issues than the GM. This is not to say I think AA has done a great job, but this franchise has bigger problems.

 

Maybe thats why Dan Douquette might have been worth Hoffman.

[glory]

For the umpteenth time, AA was ordered to get rid of Escobar. This is a franchise that operates this way.

 

Take the 5-year policy on contracts? Does anyone think a GM would announce such a policy to the FA world?

 

How about not dealing with one of the most prominent agents in MLB? Why would a GM limit himself like that?

 

There are bigger issues than the GM. This is not to say I think AA has done a great job, but this franchise has bigger problems.

 

So trade Escobar for someone of comparable value, then.

 

If AA traded Lind for Prince Fielder and absorbed the entire contract, does that absolve him of blame when the contract becomes a huge burden because Lind "had to" be traded for bad mouthing the organization?

 

You're letting AA off easy there. When Troy Glaus wanted out of Toronto, Ricciardi got Scott Rolen back (2.6 WAR in 2009 and 4.0 in 2009). When Rolen wanted out, he got Encarnacion back (we know what happened there). That's how you should maximize return for players that "need to" be dealt. Rogers pushing for them to trade someone and then getting 10 cents on the dollar back shouldn't be justified just because ownership wanted it.

[RealAccountant]

I think AA and team will survive .500 balls a few years more until team finally starts to rebuild around 2018.

[RealAccountant]

I swear to God last year Jaysfan2014 would incessantly go on about how the Yankees were in trouble. How they had old players, and bad contracts, and how they would be crippled for years. Well you know what Bud, Yankees are in first place again, I would have AROD 10 times more than that piece of s*** deal with Reyes.

[ElNik2013]

So trade Escobar for someone of comparable value, then.

 

I'm sure he tried trading Escobar for a comparable package, he just couldn't. And why couldn't the Marlins get a comparable player for him?

 

It's likely everyone around baseball knew or at least suspected that AA was told to get rid of Escobar at all cost. I think you're forgetting how big of a PR hit they took. Wasn't Rios given away for PR as well?

 

If AA traded Lind for Prince Fielder and absorbed the entire contract, does that absolve him of blame when the contract becomes a huge burden because Lind "had to" be traded for bad mouthing the organization?

.

 

I never said to let him off the hook for the Marlins trade. The Marlins had no reason to demand Escobar since they were getting a young SS in Hech. AA was probably told to get rid of Escobar and the Marlins were willing to take him and his contract (as team-friendly as it was) instead of sending more ca$h over to the Jays. This is one element of that trade. It's still a bad trade without accounting for Escobar.

 

Also, are you willing to give AA credit for getting Escobar in the first place? If you are, then you have to think he knew to some extent what he brought to the field.

 

You're letting AA off easy there. When Troy Glaus wanted out of Toronto, Ricciardi got Scott Rolen back (2.6 WAR in 2009 and 4.0 in 2009). When Rolen wanted out, he got Encarnacion back (we know what happened there). That's how you should maximize return for players that "need to" be dealt. Rogers pushing for them to trade someone and then getting 10 cents on the dollar back shouldn't be justified just because ownership wanted it.

 

How is trading a guy wanting out of a city the same as trading a guy for writing a homophobic slur on his face on TV? I think you're under-estimating or forgetting the s***-storm that the incident caused in Toronto, a city with a lot of pride for its tolerance and openness.

 

PR is very important to this franchise as is tv ratings. I gave you above the Rios example as a comparable situation to the "tu eres maricon" incident. Let me remind you that Rios put up 3.5 fWAR in 2006, 5.2 in 2007 and 5.5 in 2008. He was waived in 2009.

 

And, I'm not letting AA off easy, I just think it's fair to point out the reality of the Escobar situation.

Edited July 14, 2015 by ElNik2013

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Right - the GM has total control over injuries (Stroman, Saunders, Reyes, Lawrie, Bautista, Santos, Morrow, Sanchez, etc.) as well as which players under and over perform. TOTAL CONTROL. There is absolutely no chance in the game of baseball - the GM is the only person who control's which teams win and which teams lose. FYSMC.

 

I said "almost." And we have not made the playoffs once under AA. He's spent ungodly amounts of money, made a huge trades and signings, and it hasn't amounted to anything. It's not "bad luck," he just sucks at his job.