General Jays Discussion 2015

[Praxis]

Revere leadoff, Tulo to the 5 hole or 6 spot?

 

Yes, please God yes. Enough of Tulo as leadoff already.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Small positives for Reyes, I guess. But there's no way he's happier on a cushion of real grass in f***ing Colorado than he'd be if he were making a playoff push here on carpet.

 

Reyes is not Smiling his s*** ass Grin now! That's sad! don't worry be happy!

[intentional wok]

I have no problem moving Tulo off #1 spot if he continues to struggle (or even right now). Not sure Revere deserves those ABs, though.

 

People just want Revere there because that it resembles a more traditional line up and people wuve der baby byankets.

[flafson]

I have no problem moving Tulo off #1 spot if he continues to struggle (or even right now). Not sure Revere deserves those ABs, though.

 

People just want Revere there because that it resembles a more traditional line up and people wuve der baby byankets.

 

Even if Tulo is having a hard time, pitchers are still afraid of him, that reputation alone might have move value than Revere.

[Praxis]

Yea hes really killing us in that leadoff spot!

 

Hitting .207 with 17 hits in 82 ab with an OPS of .682 since joining us. Even Zaun suggested putting him in the 5/6 slot last night. He's never really been a leadoff hitter and he never should have been.

 

You could put JPA in the leadoff this year and it wouldn't hurt us.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

I have no problem moving Tulo off #1 spot if he continues to struggle (or even right now). Not sure Revere deserves those ABs, though.

 

People just want Revere there because that it resembles a more traditional line up and people wuve der baby byankets.

 

Ok so if not Tulo and Revere is not deserving to traditional and too much speed, who then?

 

Pillar?

[o2cui2i]

Yea hes really killing us in that leadoff spot!

 

he's not helping the team a lot from that number 1 spot. but Revere sucked balls the first couple weeks as well. now that Revere is going I'd like to see him hit leadoff and move Tulo to the 5 hole. just bump everyone else down.

[S33n]

Leave Tulo in the leadoff spot. He will bust out of his slump no matter where he's hitting and we have nobody else to hit lead off. Revere should not be getting more AB's than Tulo/Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Maybe Ryan Goins he is Obp'in .418 for the month! 4th or 5th best on the team right now!

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Leave Tulo in the leadoff spot. He will bust out of his slump no matter where he's hitting and we have nobody else to hit lead off. Revere should not be getting more AB's than Tulo/Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin.

 

Why is that? Reyes did!

[o2cui2i]

Leave Tulo in the leadoff spot. He will bust out of his slump no matter where he's hitting and we have nobody else to hit lead off. Revere should not be getting more AB's than Tulo/Donaldson/Bautista/Edwin.

 

yeah, because having a guy on base when JD, JB and EE hit bombs is a bad thing.

[intentional wok]

Ok so if not Tulo and Revere is not deserving to traditional and too much speed, who then?

 

Pillar?

 

I'm not sure if Revere deserves them. My gut says he does not. Don't get me wrong; I like Revere. I wouldn't be opposed to putting him there for a bit if he's swinging well (as long as it's temporary).

 

But, really, if we're still going on the Best Hitters Hit First tactic, why not just move up Joshie for the time being?

 

Donaldson

Bautista

Edwin

Tulo

etc

[o2cui2i]

I'm not sure if Revere deserves them. My gut says he does not. Don't get me wrong; I like Revere. I wouldn't be opposed to putting him there for a bit if he's swinging well (as long as it's temporary).

 

But, really, if we're still going on the Best Hitters Hit First tactic, why not just move up Joshie for the time being?

 

Donaldson

Bautista

Edwin

Tulo

etc

 

because you'd still like someone on base when JD hits his first inning HR.

[dineke]

I'm not sure if Revere deserves them. My gut says he does not. Don't get me wrong; I like Revere. I wouldn't be opposed to putting him there for a bit if he's swinging well (as long as it's temporary).

 

But, really, if we're still going on the Best Hitters Hit First tactic, why not just move up Joshie for the time being?

 

Donaldson

Bautista

Edwin

Tulo

etc

 

IIRC your best hitter should hit 2nd.

[S33n]

yeah, because having a guy on base when JD, JB and EE hit bombs is a bad thing.

 

You're acting like Revere gets on base more than Tulo, he doesn't.

 

Career .326 v .370 OBP, it's not a small margin either.

[intentional wok]

because you'd still like someone on base when JD hits his first inning HR.

 

But even that's an unlikelihood. I'd rather get Donaldson as close getting another AB as possible. The best way to do that is to hit him first. If he gets 15 or so PAs by the end of the year because of it, that could be like one or two more bombs he'll be able to hit for us.

 

Plus, it's not like the guys behind Josh are scrubs here. Josh can get on and they can drive him in.

[intentional wok]

IIRC your best hitter should hit 2nd.

 

Yeah, that's why I like Joshie hitting second too. But if we're talking about a short term shake up I'd rather have Josh be likeliest to have one more plate appearance than Ben Revere.

[S33n]

Why is that? Reyes did!

 

Just because it happened doesn't mean the club managed that situation properly.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

he's not helping the team a lot from that number 1 spot. but Revere sucked balls the first couple weeks as well. now that Revere is going I'd like to see him hit leadoff and move Tulo to the 5 hole. just bump everyone else down.

 

Yep, I totally agree. Tulo would thrive a lot more in the 5th spot I am sure, and Revere is no slouch and let the NL in BA last year. Plus, he can stretch those hit into a two-baser because he's a stolen base threat. I like this idea a lot, until Travis is healthy (which may not happen by the sounds of it).

[intentional wok]

All I'm saying is that to design a lineup for very specific things isn't a sound strategy. Remember that game v. Texas this year when Reyes, JD, and JB all reached base, and then EE hit a grand slam? That's like the sexiest outcome for a lineup design, and I bet we all blew our loads and loadettes over it.

 

Except it's happened once out of 140 tries. This is why I'd rather just brute force the best guys at the top. Reyes didn't deserve more PAs than the three guys immediately behind him (or even Russell Martin), but he got them because that's what he was employed to do. Luckily for Colorado ("lucky"), they don't have to deal with BS workplace politics like this. Since Reyes just fell in their lap, they don't have to justify why he isn't hitting above their own tremendous lead off guy (Blackmon). He still seems to be hitting second though, so that's pretty stupid.

[intentional wok]

I like having our best hitters get the most at-bats f*** traditional lineup. So many times have I seen a team rallying in the 9th inning and because you need a speed guy at the top of the order or a "table setter" you leave your best hitter on the on deck circle.

 

Yeah.

 

Imagine last Friday night's game being played out again. All things being equal, we run into the same situation again. Miller pitching, two outs, two in RISP, lineup turning over...

 

Who would you rather have? Ben Revere or Troy Tulowitzki? Single games can be impacted by giving the most talent the most opportunities, and it will likely pay off throughout the season.

[Boxcar]

If Revere is a slightly slower white guy with all the same traits otherwise, people want to keep him hitting 9th.

 

Troy Tulowitzki is a terrific hitter, the lineup currently being run out there is close to optimal. I actually love that Gibbons is thinking outside the box on this issue.

[GD]

If Revere is a slightly slower white guy with all the same traits otherwise, people want to keep him hitting 9th.

 

Kevin Pillar

[nextyear]

Kevin Pillar

 

I am not sure that Pillar is slower than Revere. Pillar gets to more fly balls in the outfield.

 

In my opinion, Pillar is faster. Pillar is Jewish, so he is also part of a minority, since that is considered to be a plus. (Actually Jewish/Christian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Pillar, but he has been mentioned in a few write-ups that list Jewish players - http://www.shalomlife.com/sports/28976/meet-your-jewish-mlb-all-stars-class-of-2015/, he is being included with some all stars)

Edited August 23, 2015 by nextyear

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Pillar may not have the base running instincts of a Revere, or even EE, but he is quick.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I was thinking about stolen bases during this convo and looked up Ricky Henderson's WAR over his career, holy s*** the guy was awesome...

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=194&position=OF

[nextyear]

Today's Blue Jays lineup from Shi Davidi Twitter - https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi. I see that Thole made it out west in time. I hope that Thole will have a great game.

 

[Atothe]

Pillar may not have the base running instincts of a Revere, or even EE, but he is quick.

 

Do you even use stats to back up your statements? He's the best base runner on the team. Please stop with the ********

[jaysfan2014]

Today's Blue Jays lineup from Shi Davidi Twitter - https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi. I see that Thole made it out west in time. I hope that Thole will have a great game.

 

 

No surprise to see Thole in there. Get a sweep here and we could be in 1st by the end of today (and possibly more if Houston beats the Yanks on New York's final game in hand tomorrow).

[Sorrow]

I like Revere in the 7th spot. Let's him use his speed more if the two guys in front of him don't get on. He may lead off a few innings from there.