1st Base

[KingKat]

Why is Delabar practically guaranteed a job? He's been solid enough this spring but I'm still not convinced that he's actually good as opposed to just a guy who was good for awhile. Hes has options so I probably wouldn't make a decision on him until the very end.

[Angrioter]

Why is Delabar practically guaranteed a job? He's been solid enough this spring but I'm still not convinced that he's actually good as opposed to just a guy who was good for awhile. Hes has options so I probably wouldn't make a decision on him until the very end.

 

Maybe 'cause he's ~1.0Wins/60 IP

[KingKat]

Maybe 'cause he's 1.5Wins/60 IP

 

And he was tucked away in the minors when he was at his worse to protect that shiny ratio. Career seasons happen.

[Spanky99]

why you using ribbies?!

 

C'mon man, that post is dripping in sarcasm.

[READERsince2006]

Trade Estrada back to Mexico for all I care. With Izturis

 

With Romero, Navarro, Buehrle and those two off the books is $40 million with guys to replace for league minimum (Flamming bag of s***(Romero), AJ Jimenez(FATBOY), Stroman(PAPA Buehrle), Redmond(Estrada), Izturis(Goins)

 

After the raise for Martin and Arb or long term with Donaldson still $20-$25 million

[Spanky99]

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/187741.gif

 

lol

[Laika]

Why is Delabar practically guaranteed a job? He's been solid enough this spring but I'm still not convinced that he's actually good as opposed to just a guy who was good for awhile. Hes has options so I probably wouldn't make a decision on him until the very end.

 

I don't think he was guaranteed a job from the start but with a 9:1 K:BB ratio he's second on the team in total K's right now and he'd have to look really bad in his last couple of appearances to lose the spot.

[Spanky99]

I think we should delay Castro for 9 days to save that extra year

 

Why do you keep saying this?

[Spanky99]

I would be for that. But disagree on Freeman. Hes fantastic. Plus hes a closet Canadian and wants to play for our National team.

 

Hnnngghhh!!!

[Spanky99]

Valencia/Lin.....oh wait!!

 

Stupid f***ing trade.

[HERPDERP]

Why do you keep saying this?

 

AFAIK it's a service time thing?

 

Withholding a player for 9 days or so will add an extra year of control.

[guylaroche5]

AFAIK it's a service time thing?

 

Withholding a player for 9 days or so will add an extra year of control.

 

It's something to that effect, I remember an article of Boras being pissed at the Cubs for planning to keep Bryant in the minors until that grace period is up.

[Brownie19]

Why do you keep saying this?

 

Why wouldn't we? Same with Norris.

[Spanky99]

AFAIK it's a service time thing?

 

Withholding a player for 9 days or so will add an extra year of control.

 

It's more than 9 days, at least a few weeks, also super 2 is 1st/2nd week of June, calling up Castro now is f***ing retarded anyhow. He should be starting the first month or so in Dunedin, and move him up to NH in May, etc, etc...

[Spanky99]

Why wouldn't we? Same with Norris.

 

I'm in agreement here, just don't get the 9 day part.

[Brownie19]

Should trade for Ryan Howard. Phillies willing to eat $50M of his contract.

 

Even last year with diminished skills he was 6th in RBI for 1B. He was a better run producer than batting champion Justin Morneau. More HR and RBI than Freddie Freeman who everybody seems to want to trade our best prospects for for some reason (never hit 25 HR, one 100 RBI season, no thanks).

 

And that's why Tony Batista was one of the best Blue Jay 3rd basemen of all time!!!

 

41 HR, 114 RBI, 96 R with an wRC+ of 100

 

32 HR, 110 RBI with and wRC+ of 76 and a WAR of -0.3 (without a huge negative defensively)

 

It takes a special kind of hitter to do that fellas....and Howard's just the type of guy to take a run at those records!

[HERPDERP]

I cannot remember the source but I believe it has to do with some wierd # of days calculation.

 

Basically service time is based on a certain number of days, like 170 games.

 

But there are +180 games (including post season)

 

So calling him up after those 9 days means the first year isn't included or something along those lines.

[READERsince2006]

I would keep Castro down in Dunedin to start with Osuna and give them 5-6 starts at each level to stretch them out till the All Star Break.

 

Get the innings up then they can be relievers for us the second half of this year to keep their clock back and give them a taste

 

Give Cecil, Loup, Hynes, Redmond, Drabek, Delabar and Estrada. First one that sucks gets replaced by one of

 

M West

C Jenkins

W Lopez

B Schultz

Ur Name Here

[glory]

Hendriks will scooped up in a second. Jays need SP depth badly. Keep him and put Castro in the minors.

[KingKat]

I don't think he was guaranteed a job from the start but with a 9:1 K:BB ratio he's second on the team in total K's right now and he'd have to look really bad in his last couple of appearances to lose the spot.

 

Fair enough. I should probably start believing right about now.

[READERsince2006]

Hendriks will scooped up in a second. Jays need SP depth badly. Keep him and put Castro in the minors.

 

I know we need depth but in this guys spot starts he was saved but some ridiculous outfield defence, he had amazing AAA numbers but I'd rather give Johan a shot who will be in AAA. You wanna stretch out a guy who has had decent numbers in MLB but still has an option to burn, I would give Jenkins that duty.

[Brownie19]

I'm in agreement here, just don't get the 9 day part.

 

I suspect this number was pulled from an article about Kris Bryant. I think he just needs to be held back for 9 days to gain an extra year of control.

 

It has nothing to do with Super 2 Arb, which is a money saving exercise...not a control exercise.

[Laika]

I cannot remember the source but I believe it has to do with some wierd # of days calculation.

 

Basically service time is based on a certain number of days, like 170 games.

 

But there are +180 games (including post season)

 

So calling him up after those 9 days means the first year isn't included or something along those lines.

 

Yes, you can only accrue 172 days of service time in a season but there are something like 182 actual days in a season. If you keep a player down for ~11 days or something like that then you basically prevent them from becoming a free agent after 6 years (because their service time will be something like 5.171 and players only become a free agent the offseason after eclipsing 6.000).

 

Also, players in the top 22% for service time of the 2.XXX service time group at the end of a season get "Super Two" status and go through arbitration four times instead of 3. This past offseason the Super Two cutoff was around 2.133, any player with more than that got to go into arb1. Hutch at 2.128 just fell short of Super Two status.

 

So, here are the basic models for player control:

 

Normal - call up on opening day. Get player for 3 years at minimum (plus often an initial September call up to cut their teeth) and 3 years in arbitration.

Prudently milking a year of control - call up player ~11 days after opening day. Get player for something like 2.171 years, technically not 3 seasons, but functionally it is 3 seasons at league minimum + 4 arbitration years (because they will be Super Two).

Dollars over winning - call up player some time in July so they are just under the super 2 cutoff. You get ~3.128 technical years from the player at league minimum + the 3 standard arbitration years.

[Spanky99]

I suspect this number was pulled from an article about Kris Bryant. I think he just needs to be held back for 9 days to gain an extra year of control.

 

It has nothing to do with Super 2 Arb, which is a money saving exercise...not a control exercise.

 

No, I believe it's 9 games with Bryant, now I get where HD is coming up with 9 days.

[Spanky99]

Yes, you can only accrue 172 days of service time in a season but there are something like 182 actual days in a season. If you keep a player down for ~11 days or something like that then you basically prevent them from becoming a free agent after 6 years (because their service time will be something like 5.171 and players only become a free agent the offseason after eclipsing 6.000).

 

Also, players in the top 22% for service time of the 2.XXX service time group at the end of a season get "Super Two" status and go through arbitration four times instead of 3. This past offseason the Super Two cutoff was around 2.133, any player with more than that got to go into arb1. Hutch at 2.128 just fell short of Super Two status.

 

So, here are the basic models for player control:

 

Normal - call up on opening day. Get player for 3 years at minimum (plus often an initial September call up to cut their teeth) and 3 years in arbitration.

Prudently milking a year of control - call up player ~11 days after opening day. Get player for something like 2.171 years, technically not 3 seasons, but functionally it is 3 seasons at league minimum + 4 arbitration years (because they will be Super Two).

Dollars over winning - call up player some time in July so they are just under the super 2 cutoff. You get ~3.128 technical years from the player at league minimum + the 3 standard arbitration years.

 

Thanks...

[Laika]

So because Dan Norris was up in September and accrued 29 service time days, I believe they'd have to keep him down for something like 40 days this season in order to get that extra year of control.

 

Of course you can manipulate this stuff after the beginning of someone's career too. The demotion (or being held down) doesn't have to occur in April. I think the Blue Jays ended up saving a bunch of service time with Hutch because at the end of 2013 they kept him in the minors even after being activated from the 60-day DL (off the DL on August 10th but stayed down all year). This is why Hutch avoided Super Two status despite getting called up in May for the first time.

[KingKat]

So because Dan Norris was up in September and accrued 29 service time days

 

It was really important to have him pitch in the bullpen during a non-competitive September for some reason.

[glory]

It was really important to have him pitch in the bullpen during a non-competitive September for some reason.

 

I don't understand why the Jays did that. Didn't make sense then or now. He'd still be in the same spot.

 

AA must have anticipated a budget crunch and knew he would need him in 2015 but even then, they could have done without the September call up since he barely pitched.

[KingKat]

I don't understand why the Jays did that. Didn't make sense then or now. He'd still be in the same spot.

 

AA must have anticipated a budget crunch and knew he would need him in 2015 but even then, they could have done without the September call up since he barely pitched.

 

Reminds me of Snider's initial September callup. It's like as soon as these GMs feel the heat, all the rules go out the window.

[Laika]

It was really important to have him pitch in the bullpen during a non-competitive September for some reason.

 

I think it's pretty rare for a new player to spend three uninterrupted seasons on the major league roster. Most players, even elite prospects, get sent back down or need extended rehab at some point (the service clock stops running when they are removed from the DL).

 

Trying to optimize your control over a pitching prospect is probably a fruitless endeavour because their service clock will likely get halted at some point anyway when their arm/shoulder/elbow gets f***ed (even though the clock runs while they are on the DL).

 

Starting Pompey's clock for 27 days while benching Rasmus, however.... could be seen as a bad decision.

 

Really the only players that I would intensely worry about if I was a GM would be the elite hitting prospects like Bryant, and even then I think teams worry about it a bit too much. It's almost immaterial unless your player project as strongly as Bryant (because you're talking about missing out on a lot of WAR / $ value in the 7th year) or you're as broke ass as Tampa or Oakland (where every penny matters). So I wouldn't take any real issues with how Toronto handled Sanchez or Norris.