Rotation and Bullpen Post Stroman Injury

[jays_fever]

A lot of people seem to think that setup men see the higher leverage situations, but most of the time that's not true. The two most discussed setup men were Davis and Betances last year, but Holland and Robertson saw the higher leverage situations as closers.

 

Well thats also because managers still think inside the box and will use their best pitchers exclusively for for the 8th or 9th inning. In a 5-4 game with 1 out and 2 runners on I'd always have my best reliever coming in, even if it just the 6th inning.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

He's arb-eligible in 2016 too. But that's exactly why you would have someone close. Have your best reliever pitch in high leverage situations, and let some other team pay for the saves after the season.

 

I don't see your reasoning. Anyway, Cecil is hurt. And shoulder issues aren't always minor. In fact, quite the opposite. But apart from the injury, I'd rather build a stud like Castro to be our closer for the next 4+ years instead of relying on a guy who's hurt and may leave after this year. Also, we're not going anywhere this year, playoff-wise, so that's another reason, for me, to build for the future and entrusting the closer duties to a guy that figures in the plans long term. If you think Cecil is not hurt AND we have a shot at playoffs AND Cecil is a better pitcher than Castro, then I guess I get your stance. But man, we lost 2-3 WAR with Stro's injuries. We were fringe before that.

[BTS]

Well thats also because managers still think inside the box and will use their best pitchers exclusively for for the 8th or 9th inning. In a 5-4 game with 1 out and 2 runners on I'd always have my best reliever coming in, even if it just the 6th inning.

 

Well yeah, but I don't think Gibby is about to break that mold so I'd just prefer to have the best reliever closing.

[BTS]

I don't see your reasoning. Anyway, Cecil is hurt. And shoulder issues aren't always minor. In fact, quite the opposite. But apart from the injury, I'd rather build a stud like Castro to be our closer for the next 4+ years instead of relying on a guy who's hurt and may leave after this year. Also, we're not going anywhere this year, playoff-wise, so that's another reason, for me, to build for the future and entrusting the closer duties to a guy that figures in the plans long term. If you think Cecil is not hurt AND we have a shot at playoffs AND Cecil is a better pitcher than Castro, then I guess I get your stance. But man, we lost 2-3 WAR with Stro's injuries. We were fringe before that.

 

Relievers who collect a lot of saves end up costing more money. With Cecil only around for two more years, it makes a ton of sense to let him collect saves and drive his market value up for some other team to pay.

[GD]

Relievers who collect a lot of saves end up costing more money. With Cecil only around for two more years, it makes a ton of sense to let him collect saves and drive his market value up for some other team to pay.

 

Or to drive up his trade value.

[BTS]

Or to drive up his trade value.

 

Also this.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Relievers who collect a lot of saves end up costing more money. With Cecil only around for two more years, it makes a ton of sense to let him collect saves and drive his market value up for some other team to pay.

 

Okay, but he's hurt!

[GD]

Okay, but he's hurt!

 

Eh, his arm could explode at any moment even while healthy.

[glory]

This rotation could be surprisingly good or more likely an absolute disaster. We really need hutch to be unreal and one of Norris/Sanchez to be solid to have a chance

 

If I had to pick one pitcher out of the group of Hutchison, Stroman, Sanchez, and Norris to have the best career (assuming good health to everyone), it would be Hutchison. Of course, they foolishly had him throw 185 innings in his first year back from Tommy John Surgery, so I'm going to hold my breath every time he pitches.

[jays76]

Relievers who collect a lot of saves end up costing more money. With Cecil only around for two more years, it makes a ton of sense to let him collect saves and drive his market value up for some other team to pay.

 

Plus he's earned first crack at closer if healthy imo, he's got the tenure and put his time in to go along with the solid numbers he's put up over the last few years. The last thing we want to do is undermine Cecil's confidence by making Sanchez the closer when he's more of a crapshoot in that role.

[tpurewal97]

Dickey

Buerhle

Hutchinson

Sanchez

Norris

 

-------------------

 

Francis/Jenkins

Redmond

Estrada

Delabar

Setup 1 : Loup

Setup 2 : Castro

Closer : Cecil

[Angrioter]

Ben Nicholson-Smith

If #BlueJays go with Cecil as the closer, they'd like to have a 3rd lefty in the bullpen, Gibbons said.

 

 

Hynes?

[G-Snarls]

Ben Nicholson-Smith

If #BlueJays go with Cecil as the closer, they'd like to have a 3rd lefty in the bullpen, Gibbons said.

 

 

 

http://www.milb.com/images/460069/t422/180x270/460069.jpg

[SaskJaysFan_2]

http://www.milb.com/images/460069/t422/180x270/460069.jpg

 

Hah - maybe. How's his rehab going?

[G-Snarls]

Hah - maybe. How's his rehab going?

 

I don't even think he's throwing

[glory]

Wouldn't surprise me if it were Francis.

[intentional wok]

Wouldn't surprise me if it were Francis.

 

I've heard he's been throwing pretty well, FWIW. Not sure if that means he's actually throwing well or if he's just throwing better than anyone anticipated.

 

Speaking of lefties, what's the sitrep on Johan Santana? I keep forgetting he's on the team, which is incredibly weird all things considered.

[LGBJ29]

If I had to pick one pitcher out of the group of Hutchison, Stroman, Sanchez, and Norris to have the best career (assuming good health to everyone), it would be Hutchison. Of course, they foolishly had him throw 185 innings in his first year back from Tommy John Surgery, so I'm going to hold my breath every time he pitches.

 

except it wasn't his first year back. He had Tommy John in 2012

[G-Snarls]

Wouldn't surprise me if it were Francis.

 

Yeah that seems likely

[G-Snarls]

[G-Snarls]

What board member suggested Stroman was going to have attitude problems??

[glory]

except it wasn't his first year back. He had Tommy John in 2012

 

Meant first full season back. Should have been on an innings limit around 150.

[z3r0s]

As far as I'm concerned with have a few spots locked up unless something crazy happens in late spring;

 

CL - Cecil

SU - Loup

SU - Delebar

MR - Redmond

MR -

LR - Estrada

LR -

 

We've got a few spots to fill and we shouldn't be doing it with Osuna or Castro who need to be groomed as if they will be the cheap young pitching we will need as the current crop starts to get expensive.

 

Options I see on the 40-man are; Matt West, Preston Guilmet, Liam Hendriks, Colt Hynes, Chad Jenkins, Ryan Tepera

 

The BP isn't going to be shut-down, but we can fill it and hope we get good years out of a few of these guys.

[glory]

My guess, ignoring the stupid possibility of Castro in the pen, is this:

 

Dickey, Hutch, Buehrle, Sanchez, Norris

Cecil, Loup, Lopez, Delabar, Redmond, Francis, Estrada

[z3r0s]

ooops, your right, I somehow missed Wilton on my 'possibilities' list.

[G-Snarls]

Why the f*** do we need a third lefty. Take the best pitcher FFS.

 

Agree as long as Gibbons is willing to use Cecil (his "closer") if/when a situation arises before the 9th where using him makes the most sense. I don't want him alwats "saving" Cecil for the 9th (where he might not even be needed) if a situation/matchup arises earlier where using your best lefty makes sense strategically.

[BTS]

Agree as long as Gibbons is willing to use Cecil (his "closer") if/when a situation arises before the 9th where using him makes the most sense. I don't want him alwats "saving" Cecil for the 9th (where he might not even be needed) if a situation/matchup arises earlier where using your best lefty makes sense strategically.

 

I think there's pretty much zero chance this happens if Cecil is named closer.

[G-Snarls]

I think there's pretty much zero chance this happens if Cecil is named closer.

 

That's what I was afraid of

[Governator]

Why are the highest leverage situations always considered to be the 9th inning? I just haven't understood that logic. Every week scenarios happen prior to the 9th where you wish your best BP arm could bail you out. I often see teams go to their closer in the 8th inning when there are at least 1 out in a very high leverage spot and then use them again in the 9th. Tigers & Rays did that against us I believe last year and I don't think I saw it once with Jannsen. Maybe it's just Gibbons lack of balls.

 

Edit: I can definitely see Loup getting in a few jams in the 8th if he indeed becomes the primary set up man from his walk rate alone.

[G-Snarls]

Isn't that would Loup is for to get tough lefties out? I know he uses him against both but Loup's numbers are much better against lefties. It seems like Loup nibbles against righties and actually walks them at a high right. Just use Cecil as closer and Loup as loogy and hopefully guys like Delabar and Estrada can step into setup roles. We really do need another late inning reliever. Soriano would be a great fit.

 

Yeah I think he needs to get one more established BP arm. He probably did even before Stroman got hurt. Is it too late?