Markakis vs Melky

[HERPDERP]

Aren't you guys forgetting that he's a RF? He has played only 26 games as a left fielder - and that was during his rookie season back in 2006. I'm not sure if he would be open to changing positions, considering he's a free agent and he can sign elsewhere as a RF

 

also sort of off topic..I think Markasis looks kind of wierd at the plate, almost like he's a hunchback. His upper back sticks out awkwardly - anybody else notice this?

[GD]

1. Souza

2. Saunders

3. Markakis

4. Melky

[ineedsheet]

His point is that MiLB accolade are pretty flawed as a gauge of value. Let us not forget that JPA was once won a MVP award in the minors.

 

and i'm going to guess JPA had pretty decent trade value and would have fetched more than goins or loup before he started failing miserably in the majors.

 

his argument was that souza was low on the depth chart and therefore would fetch less value in a trade...

 

he is a top 10 prospect in the nationals organization, i have no idea what makes you guys think we could give up significantly less than that to acquire him

[KingKat]

and i'm going to guess JPA had pretty decent trade value and would have fetched more than goins or loup before he started failing miserably in the majors.

 

his argument was that souza was low on the depth chart and therefore would fetch less value in a trade...

 

he is a top 10 prospect in the nationals organization, i have no idea what makes you guys think we could give up significantly less than that to acquire him

 

Whoah... I didn't say anything about all that. I'm just saying that a MiLB award means as much to Billy Burns as it does to Souza. That was JFaS's point. I'm not taking up this whole argument.

[ineedsheet]

Whoah... I didn't say anything about all that. I'm just saying that a MiLB award means as much to Billy Burns as it does to Souza. That was JFaS's point. I'm not taking up this whole argument.

 

i didn't literally mean the accolade on its own should merit anything. but that accolade combined with his high profile and very sexy International League (way more trustworthy than PCL) line will actually fetch alot. really delusional to assume otherwise based on the fact that he doesn't fit in the top 3 of their depth chart

 

mike trout was 4th on the angels depth chart for a while... f*** why didn't we just ship off dustin mcgowan for hiM?!

[KingKat]

i didn't literally mean the accolade on its own should merit anything. but that accolade combined with his high profile and very sexy International League (way more trustworthy than PCL) line will actually fetch alot. really delusional to assume otherwise based on the fact that he doesn't fit in the top 3 of their depth chart

 

mike trout was 4th on the angels depth chart for a while... f*** why didn't we just ship off dustin mcgowan for hiM?!

 

I don't know if Souza will fetch a lot or not but I could see the Nationals asking for a lot because they don't really have any urgent needs. They might just keep Souza around for depth. If he was out of options, it would be a different story but since he's only used one option year, I don't see why they wouldn't just keep him for depth unless sometone offers something good. He's a great fit for the Jays under the assumption that he's cheap but no matter how informed the assumption is, it's still an assumption.

[ineedsheet]

I don't know if Souza will fetch a lot or not but I could see the Nationals asking for a lot because they don't really have any urgent needs. They might just keep Souza around for depth. If he was out of options, it would be a different story but since he's only used one option year, I don't see why they wouldn't just keep him for depth unless sometone offers something good. He's a great fit for the Jays under the assumption that he's cheap but no matter how informed the assumption is, it's still an assumption.

 

wil myers AAA numbers when traded:

 

.304/.378/.554 (wRC+ 137)

 

steven souza:

 

.350/.432/.590 (wRC+ 180)

 

myers was younger, yes...

 

but seriously delusional if we think we can get him without giving up significant assets.

[KingKat]

wil myers AAA numbers when traded:

 

.304/.378/.554 (wRC+ 137)

 

steven souza:

 

.350/.432/.590 (wRC+ 180)

 

myers was younger, yes...

 

but seriously delusional if we think we can get him without giving up significant assets.

 

MiLB numbers just don't mean the same when you're not the same age. Not even close. I get what you're saying overall but to call JFaS delusional over the top. He may simply be wrong.

[JaysRap]

Kinda drives me crazy that Seattle has a player who by all arguments they don't want anymore and would like to trade (Saunders) and the Jays have a glaring need for an OF. How has this deal not already been done?

 

When it makes so much sense for both sides surely you'd think they could make a deal that works.

[ineedsheet]

MiLB numbers just don't mean the same when you're not the same age. Not even close. I get what you're saying overall but to call JFaS delusional over the top. He may simply be wrong.

 

i mean.. i guess its semantics..

 

but saying we can get a top 10 prospect (top 5, really.) from the nationals for a replacement level player or a very replaceable reliever...

 

i'd consider that delusional.

 

really nothing personal against JFaS, i was defending him in another thread

 

as far as the age thing goes, i'd agree with you if souza was old. he wasn't. he put up those numbers at age 24.. far from a 'post hype sleeper'

 

edit:

 

you know whats "not even close"? the PCL and the International League for hitters... myers PCL, souza IL

[HERPDERP]

Why do you guys want to give up our BP arms? That's our weakness spot on the club. We absolutely do not need to trade our relief pitching for a left fielder. I'd be more willing to give up our B+ prospects.

[Mikeleelop]

I'm pretty sure I have a decent grasp on the market value of MLB players. They think Michael Taylor is better than Souza right now, that says a lot.

 

because you are winning the free agent contest??

[ineedsheet]

I'm pretty sure I have a decent grasp on the market value of MLB players. They think Michael Taylor is better than Souza right now, that says a lot.

 

who does? where are your sources on this?

[Mikeleelop]

I'm pretty sure I have a decent grasp on the market value of MLB players. They think Michael Taylor is better than Souza right now, that says a lot.

 

did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night??

[ineedsheet]

I'm pretty sure I have a decent grasp on the market value of MLB players. They think Michael Taylor is better than Souza right now, that says a lot.

 

well you clearly have no grasp on the value of MiLB players.

[KingKat]

 

as far as the age thing goes, i'd agree with you if souza was old. he wasn't. he put up those numbers at age 24.. far from a 'post hype sleeper'

 

 

He put up those numbers at 25 actually. He turns 26 in April. Maybe the most relevant question is why is Steamer so high on him? This guy didn't reach AA until he was 24. His numbers have serious age inflation to them.

[HERPDERP]

JFaS is a very well sourced individual on these forums ;3

[Governator]

Wil Myers was a top 5 prospect in all of baseball with 6 years of control and was 21 yr old and if you want to talk about awards, he was the AL Rookie of the Year... They are not equal.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'm pretty sure I have a decent grasp on the market value of MLB players. They think Michael Taylor is better than Souza right now, that says a lot.

 

So do a lot of talent evaluators.

[ineedsheet]

He put up those numbers at 25 actually. He turns 26 in April. Maybe the most relevant question is why is Steamer so high on him? This guy didn't reach AA until he was 24. His numbers have serious age inflation to them.

 

PED suspension and has been injured throughout his minor league career. he apparently had a major "attitude adjustment" a few years ago and has literally gotten better every season since. i would not consider age 25 to be "age inflation" in the minors

 

what you are referring to is randy ruiz hitting bombs at the age of 55 there.

[ineedsheet]

Wil Myers was a top 5 prospect in all of baseball with 6 years of control and was 21 yr old and if you want to talk about awards, he was the AL Rookie of the Year... They are not equal.

 

noone said they were equal... and wtf does AL ROY have to do with his 'tradeability"? did the ray sknow they were getting the rookie of the year?

 

but ya, to suggest that Souza could be fetched for goins or loup... while myers commanded a king's ransom..while putting up inferior stats in an more hitter-friendly environment....

 

delusional

[Spanky99]

Options:

1-Trade for Saunders

2-Play Dirks+Pillar

2-Sign Aoki

3-Sign Markakis

4-Sign Melky

 

This.

[ineedsheet]

Their August/September playing times.

 

ROFL. souza played in 10 games and taylor played in 14.

 

DEFINITELY RANKED HIGHER WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION

[KingKat]

PED suspension and has been injured throughout his minor league career. he apparently had a major "attitude adjustment" a few years ago and has literally gotten better every season since. i would not consider age 25 to be "age inflation" in the minors

 

what you are referring to is randy ruiz hitting bombs at the age of 55 there.

 

Wow you are pretty stubborn and arrogant for someone who is not very informed. Twenty-five is still old for the level but I guess it's easier to just make a Randy Ruiz reference and assume stupidity on the part of the people you are debating than research what you're talking about.

[KingKat]

Their age/level adjustments are tested to be the best they can be. You could probably safely say that a guy like Alex Gordon would put up a 180 in AAA.

 

Well then how do you explain the discrepancy between how the Nats value him and how Steamer values him? Are the Nats just dumm? They seem like a pretty sound organization.

[Dr. Dinger]

Which further exemplifies that Souza's market value is not that high.

 

I wouldn't really bank on Souza being a first division OF, but I'd take him at the right price.

[Dr. Dinger]

noone said they were equal... and wtf does AL ROY have to do with his 'tradeability"? did the ray sknow they were getting the rookie of the year?

 

but ya, to suggest that Souza could be fetched for goins or loup... while myers commanded a king's ransom..while putting up inferior stats in an more hitter-friendly environment....

 

delusional

 

Who's Noone? Peter Noone?

[Dr. Dinger]

Well then how do you explain the discrepancy between how the Nats value him and how Steamer values him? Are the Nats just dumm? They seem like a pretty sound organization.

 

I'm guessing this is because Steamer doesn't give a s*** about tools, just stats, environments, aging curves, and s*** like that. A 25 year old beating up on AA pitching with a big hole in his swing is still pretty likely to fall on his face against MLB breaking balls.

[KingKat]

Scouting vs. stats is the easiest explanation.

 

Hum... Perhaps... Or maybe they just have better metric than we do?

[ineedsheet]

Wow you are pretty stubborn and arrogant for someone who is not very informed. Twenty-five is still old for the level but I guess it's easier to just make a Randy Ruiz reference and assume stupidity on the part of the people you are debating than research what you're talking about.

 

i think i tried to explain the age/level thing--- as in souza didn't REALLY start developing until 2012--he faced a PED suspension and had motivation issues. he clearly took a step forward in 2012...

 

25 is not considered an "older prospect" for triple A regardless. maybe at the very threshold for age.. late twenties, 26-29 i think is when you start to have real concerns.. of course you have to adjust down... but not as much as you'd have to adjust for the PCL vs IL

 

that being said, i never said souza was a better prospect than myers... i just feel it is completely delusional to assume we can get him and give up virtually no value.