Should we be rebuilding?

[LongTimeReader]

Put your f***ing money on the f***ing table (not literally). Yes or No?! There's no middle-ground here (we are not the 2013 Red Sox). A rebuild typically takes 3-5 years. So would you rather wait 3-5 years for a potentially competitive baseball team or have potentially competitive baseball now.... there's no guarantees either way, and a rebuild carries risk of failure too, maybe just as much as whatever this organization is in the midst of doing now.

[LongTimeReader]

P.S.> Good article on Fangraphs about this topic

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/community/is-rebuilding-worth-it/

 

"Beyond these fairly strict conditions, rebuilding does not show up in the data to be a worthy pursuit."

 

"From a baseball operations standpoint, selling patience to ownership over a three to five year period while the organization’s talent base gets rebuilt buys some time and job security. "

[GD]

No. We have a lot of young talent coming up (Pompey, Castro, Osuna, Barreto, Hoffman, Pentecost, Nay, maybe Guerrero Jr?, etc) even without trading our MLB pieces.

[LongTimeReader]

No. We have a lot of young talent coming up (Pompey, Castro, Osuna, Barreto, Hoffman, Pentecost, Nay, maybe Guerrero Jr?, etc) even without trading our MLB pieces.

 

As a counter-point: maybe we have some near-ready talent but we are also ranked roughly "middle of the pack" in terms of minor league talent

[jays4life19]

Nope. Not when you have Joey Bats and Edwin on extremely team friendly contracts. Go for that s***.

[LongTimeReader]

Nope. Not when you have Joey Bats and Edwin on extremely team friendly contracts. Go for that s***.

 

Agree but counter-point: You also have some s***** ass contracts in Buehrle and Reyes

[jays4life19]

Maybe JFaS or someone more knowledgeable can post - but i think with Martin we're a projected 87-88ish win team? You don't rebuild a team with that kind of projection...we need to add a couple more wins and we have the money to do it.

[LongTimeReader]

Tbh, I wish to never read/hear another person say we should be rebuilding again, it's dumb logic.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

With the news of Boston probably getting Lester in addition to Ramirez and Sandoval, yes, we should be rebuilding. Not like we'll be any higher than third place, as usual. The Martin signing looks more and more like a PR stunt ("Look! We actually signed a free agent! And he's Canadian!") than an actual commitment to spending and winning now that the Red Sox have opened up their wallet.

[GD]

An $85 million PR stunt.

 

Just delete your account.

[Orgfiller]

NJH already touched on this subject before. We have talent at the Major League level and a lot at the MiLB level, we still need to add a few more wins to be truly contenders but we are not in a position to rebuild.

[wardhenke1]

Tbh, I wish to never read/hear another person say we should be rebuilding again, it's dumb logic.

 

Kansas city lost the world series to a freak arm with a payroll of $92m and a team full of home grown talent and prospects developed from other organizations (Gordon, Butler, Perez, Moustakas, Holland, Hosmer etc.) Tell them rebuilding means s***; f*** you should know judging by your avatar.

[Orgfiller]

Honestly, a trade for Saunders and sign Headley puts us in a very good position.

 

I agree, plus maybe see if we can sign Rasmus to a cheap one year deal and the team looks a lot better.

[Deadpool]

Agree but counter-point: You also have some s***** ass contracts in Buehrle and Reyes

 

Lots of money, but both of those players contribute...

[GD]

I agree, plus maybe see if we can sign Rasmus to a cheap one year deal and the team looks a lot better.

 

C Martin

1B Smoak

2B Lawrie

3B Headley

SS Reyes

LF Saunders

CF Rasmus

RF Bautista

DH Edwin

 

SP Dickey (Dickey effect order)

SP Stroman

SP Buehrle

SP Hutchison

SP Estrada/Happ

 

MiLB Pompey

MiLB Norris

MiLB Sanchez

MiLB Travis

MiLB Osuna

MiLB Castro

MiLB too lazy to think of anyone else

 

that's actually kinda sexy.

[saskjayfan]

Kansas city lost the world series to a freak arm with a payroll of $92m and a team full of home grown talent and prospects developed from other organizations (Gordon, Butler, Perez, Moustakas, Holland, Hosmer etc.) Tell them rebuilding means s***; f*** you should know judging by your avatar.

 

I agree, their rebuild was great. All it took was 29 years to get that rebuild right. Last time they made the playoffs was 1985. It's an easy process.

[wardhenke1]

I agree, their rebuild was great. All it took was 29 years to get that rebuild right. Last time they made the playoffs was 1985. It's an easy process.

 

Dayton Moore started in 2006 and he really began the rebuild. All it needs is good management: we don't have it and haven't had since Pat Gillick left. Simples.

[AdamGreenwood]

Sorry guys, but this Jays team is not competing.

 

We're at the stretching point when it comes to salary, and we have two stars, a few decent players, and a whole lot of average of below average players (including the entire pitching staff.)

And what do you think happens when injury strikes? You think we have a ton of talented guys just waiting for their shot? Nope. We had Dan Johnson as our backup.

 

If you like finishing 3rd or 4th every year, without whiffing the playoffs, then by all means, continue with this illusion.

But eventually, the Jays will get serious enough about making the post-season that they'll realize that sometimes you have to take a step back before you take two steps forward.

 

Impatience is not helping us, but fans can actually get excited about prospects. If we have a bunch of really, talented hot prospects, the fans will come out.

 

 

The reason we should rebuild now is because we can actually get some pretty good stuff for Bautista and Encarnacion.

 

There are three teams in particular that are filled with talent, and don't know where to put it all: Chicago Cubs, LA Dodgers and Boston Red Sox.

We could trade our two big bats, and our old starters for a boatload of young talent and the payroll flexibility to land some Japanese/Cuban free agents.

[jaysblue]

I don't think the Jays are ever going to have bats like EE and Bautista locked up together at such a great value. This is the time to contend, before they start to decline and become FA's. Doubt the Jays luck into two bats like that again.

[saskjayfan]

Dayton Moore started in 2006. He began the rebuild; all it needs is good management. We don't have it and haven't had since Pat Gillick left. Simples.

 

If you are so far away from it that you have zero chance, go for the rebuild. We aren't that far away and the Royals barely made the playoffs. We also had the highest payroll in baseball with Gillick when we won the world series. That's not a slight against Gillick. He was fantastic, but having money never hurts!

[jays4life19]

Honestly, a trade for Saunders and sign Headley puts us in a very good position.

 

As things stand today. What are we projected at?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Honestly, a trade for Saunders and sign Headley puts us in a very good position.

 

What would signing Shields and Miller do?

 

Starting rotation of Shields,Dickey( 2nd) is the best spot to maximize the effect), Stroman,

Buehrle, Hutch sexy sexy sexy !

[Jimcanuck]

C Martin

1B Smoak

2B Lawrie

3B Headley

SS Reyes

LF Saunders

CF Rasmus

RF Bautista

DH Edwin

 

SP Dickey (Dickey effect order)

SP Stroman

SP Buehrle

SP Hutchison

SP Estrada/Happ

 

MiLB Pompey

MiLB Norris

MiLB Sanchez

MiLB Travis

MiLB Osuna

MiLB Castro

MiLB too lazy to think of anyone else

 

that's actually kinda sexy.

 

Not enough pitching to contend for WS

[LongTimeReader]

Kansas city lost the world series to a freak arm with a payroll of $92m and a team full of home grown talent and prospects developed from other organizations (Gordon, Butler, Perez, Moustakas, Holland, Hosmer etc.) Tell them rebuilding means s***; f*** you should know judging by your avatar.

 

K..........................

[LongTimeReader]

An $85 million PR stunt.

 

Just delete your account.

 

Me?

[glory]

Honestly, a trade for Saunders and sign Headley puts us in a very good position.

 

Yep. It's all about adding wins/value wherever they can. Martin over Navarro is a good start. Someone like Headley (who I think will sign with the Giants now but whatever) would be a 3 win improvement over Izturis/Goins. Liriano would be a one win improvement over Happ, and so on. You start to increase value throughout the lineup and it will add up. As long as AA does not start trading prospects for veterans then the chance of filling holes internally with young high upside talent will still be there even if they go for it.

[KingKat]

I don't think the Jays are ever going to have bats like EE and Bautista locked up together at such a great value. This is the time to contend, before they start to decline and become FA's. Doubt the Jays luck into two bats like that again.

 

It's really f***in' hard to develop talent like Encarnacion and Bautista. You have to ride it out with them. The offense will be good if they merely plug the remaining holes. Run prevention will be boosted considerably by Martin and possibly by Pompey as well if he lives up to our dreams.

[TheHurl]

1. A GM in their 5th season, who has likely their most competitive team and has a team record payroll approved...does not rebuild

2. You do not rebuild because of something that your division rival does (Boston will be the ultimate under bet this year...book it)

3. Never ever rebuild solely in an off-season (see Chicago Cubs as the model...regardless of whether it's successful or not)

[Maahfaace]

Its funny, people bitched when the Jays sucked that they never signed players to make the team competitive. When the Jays finally are competitive, people bitch this team should be blown up. Same goes for Raps Leafs.....Why not enjoy the possibility that this team at least has a decent shot next year to make the playoffs?

[guylaroche5]

lol@rebuilding because boston got panda and hanley, that's gotta be some of the dumbest reasoning i've ever heard. "oh no, they spent money on players, better not try this year."