WAR (of players involved in recent Jays trades)

[Olerud363]

Haven't seen this anywhere else... Fan Graphs WARs

 

Dickey - 2.1, Buerle 3.5- JJ - 0, Reyes 3.3, Melky 2.4

 

Alvarez - 2.2, D'Arnaud 1.6, Hech 0.6, Escobar 0.2, Marisnick 0.8, Gomes 4.6

 

Am I missing anyone??

 

I think it's actually better then last year... but we basically paid a hundred million or whatever for 0 WARS.

 

If Alvarez, D'Arnaud, Hech, Marisnick and or Gomes take off it could turn out.

 

We paid 100 million for

 

0 short term WAR, 0 short term playoff appearances.

-100 long term WAR, -2 or 3 long term playoff appearances.

 

Go Wilner. Go AA.

[NorthOf49]

"Everyone was excited when AA made all those moves so nobody can complain!"

[jays_fever]

People are still going to criticize the trade, but the players we received back in those deals, even Dickey weren't the problem. It was the Ryan Goins' of the world being inserted into the lineup on a daily basis.

 

Not saying I endorse the deal, back then or now but I have more of an issue with management not properly building depth on the team. Many people wanted guys like Gentry, McCarthy, etc on the team. Instead we got Steve Tolleson

[KingKat]

People are still going to criticize the trade, but the players we received back in those deals, even Dickey weren't the problem. It was the Ryan Goins' of the world being inserted into the lineup on a daily basis.

 

Not saying I endorse the deal, back then or now but I have more of an issue with management not properly building depth on the team. Many people wanted guys like Gentry, McCarthy, etc on the team. Instead we got Steve Tolleson

 

AA's achilles heel is his over-valuing of relievers. We didn't know that Gomes would cut it as a everyday player but given up two useful bench pieces for a reliever was an overpayment even knowing what we knew at the time. You can trace a lot of the Jays depth problems and poor roster decisions directly to that disaster of a trade.

[TDotttt2005]

Haven't seen this anywhere else... Fan Graphs WARs

 

Dickey - 2.1, Buerle 3.5- JJ - 0, Reyes 3.3, Melky 2.4

 

Alvarez - 2.2, D'Arnaud 1.6, Hech 0.6, Escobar 0.2, Marisnick 0.8, Gomes 4.6

 

 

Am I missing anyone??

 

I think it's actually better then last year... but we basically paid a hundred million or whatever for 0 WARS.

 

If Alvarez, D'Arnaud, Hech, Marisnick and or Gomes take off it could turn out.

 

We paid 100 million for

 

0 short term WAR, 0 short term playoff appearances.

-100 long term WAR, -2 or 3 long term playoff appearances.

 

Go Wilner. Go AA.

 

Wilner is still fapping to Danny Valencia.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I thought this was going to be about ISIS threats on Canada. Really the only one I'm still mad about is the Gomes trade.

 

You aren't angry about taking on Reyes' contract? Alvarez is probably a better pitcher than Mark Buehrle as well.

[BTS]

AA's achilles heel is his over-valuing of relievers. We didn't know that Gomes would cut it as a everyday player but given up two useful bench pieces for a reliever was an overpayment even knowing what we knew at the time. You can trace a lot of the Jays depth problems and poor roster decisions directly to that disaster of a trade.

 

I can't wait to see what kind of resources go into the bullpen this year. I suspect we'll see 3-4 additions of the Rogers/Coco/Francisco variety.

[Sammy225]

I can't wait to see what kind of resources go into the bullpen this year. I suspect we'll see 3-4 additions of the Rogers/Coco/Francisco variety.

 

I don't think so i would imagine they over pay Morrow to be down there however but i think it is a great place for Morrow.

[KingKat]

I don't think so i would imagine they over pay Morrow to be down there however but i think it is a great place for Morrow.

 

If I'm reading AA's comments about putting more emphasis on "health as a skill" correctly, Morrow is gone.

[GNick49]

Haven't seen this anywhere else... Fan Graphs WARs

 

Dickey - 2.1, Buerle 3.5- JJ - 0, Reyes 3.3, Melky 2.4

 

Alvarez - 2.2, D'Arnaud 1.6, Hech 0.6, Escobar 0.2, Marisnick 0.8, Gomes 4.6

 

Am I missing anyone??

 

I think it's actually better then last year... but we basically paid a hundred million or whatever for 0 WARS.

 

If Alvarez, D'Arnaud, Hech, Marisnick and or Gomes take off it could turn out.

 

We paid 100 million for

 

0 short term WAR, 0 short term playoff appearances.

-100 long term WAR, -2 or 3 long term playoff appearances.

 

Go Wilner. Go AA.

 

Most of that is because of Gomes. Which had nothing to do with the Dickey or Miami trades

[RealAccountant]

what was the total Jays WAR this year? And how many wins does a replacement team allocated?

[RealAccountant]

I would just like to point out that yesterday on TSN radio, AA explicitly mentioned that bullpen ERA was the reason we werent in that game tonight

[Arkadium]

http://duckieandsoupreadtogether.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/war-what-is-it-good-for.jpg

[RealAccountant]

http://duckieandsoupreadtogether.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/war-what-is-it-good-for.jpg

 

#yesallwomen

 

*throws up

[BTS]

If I'm reading AA's comments about putting more emphasis on "health as a skill" correctly, Morrow is gone.

 

That, and Morrow probably stills sees himself as a starter. He'll probably go to the NL on a cheap 1-year deal and try to re-establish some value.

[KingKat]

That, and Morrow probably stills sees himself as a starter. He'll probably go to the NL on a cheap 1-year deal and try to re-establish some value.

 

Morrow to the Pirates.

[BTS]

Morrow to the Pirates.

 

Pirates or Padres is my guess.

[G-Snarls]

Thread title changed

 

Hope you don't mind Olerud

[G-Snarls]

Pirates or Padres is my guess.

 

Padres

 

LOL

 

He can be their 2015 Josh Johnson

[glory]

Gomes completely skew the numbers and he wasn't even a part of those big trades. It was just a bad trade unrelated to "going for it" that off-season.

 

As far as which relievers Alex will overpay for, my money is on Oviedo.

[kgm1]

AA's achilles heel is his over-valuing of relievers. We didn't know that Gomes would cut it as a everyday player but given up two useful bench pieces for a reliever was an overpayment even knowing what we knew at the time. You can trace a lot of the Jays depth problems and poor roster decisions directly to that disaster of a trade.

 

Absolutely, We needed both those players in the infield. that was they worst deal in AA,s history even IF Rogers had paned out

[jays_fever]

Pirates or Padres is my guess.

 

It's pretty sad that players going to hitter or pitcher friendly environments to gain value is still a viable tool in convincing GM's to overpay for them.

 

Would have been interesting to see what Morneau received on the open market had he been a FA this off season

[kgm1]

Morrow to the Pirates.

 

If I were Morrow I would go there. Searage has proven to be the best pitching coach in the game currently.

[burlingtonbandit]

WAR undervalues guys like Buehrle and Dickey. The Gomes was completely a separate trade and no one knew how good he was going to be. The Marlins and Mets deals actually worked out for us this year even if some people don't want to believe it.

 

Not to mention you combined d'Arnaud and Gomes WAR into your calculation which isn't correct since they play the same position.

[kgm1]

With what AA said about health I think we can comfortably know that Morrow, McGowan, Sanchez and Janssen are gone. Sanchez in spite of what AA says will be in the bullpen. Very short sited but with their jobs on the line it will happen. AA will add 1 bullpen arm like Gregerson (that type) and some arms that have options.

 

Depth and defense is a huge issue but the Bull pen does need help.

[GD]

WAR undervalues guys like Buehrle and Dickey.

 

RA9WAR works fine for both

[kgm1]

WAR undervalues guys like Buehrle and Dickey. The Gomes was completely a separate trade and no one knew how good he was going to be. The Marlins and Mets deals actually worked out for us this year even if some people don't want to believe it.

 

Not to mention you combined d'Arnaud and Gomes WAR into your calculation which isn't correct since they play the same position.

 

Even with Gomes and Aviles on the bench with all that has gone on were needed pieces . The failure of the player development / scouting departments to recognize Gomes,s talent behind the dish isn't really on AA

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

If I'm reading AA's comments about putting more emphasis on "health as a skill" correctly, Morrow is gone.

 

And Lind can carry his bags on his way out too, one would think!

[KingKat]

And Lind can carry his bags on his way out too, one would think!

 

Less sure about Lind. I think AA's preference would be to trade Lind (and if the trade makes sense financially, there's no reason for anyone not to prefer that to just declining him). The real question will come up is if AA doesn't have a trade lined up early. Does he hold onto him and shop him more at the risk of keeping him if he doesn't get a deal he likes? I think the later is preferable than trying to find better value for the money on the FA market (which I'm convinced will NOT happen).

 

Of course, there's also the possiblity that purses are pinched and that concerns about injuries are just a cover up for decisions that have been already made for financial reasons.

[Olerud363]

Gomes completely skew the numbers and he wasn't even a part of those big trades. It was just a bad trade unrelated to "going for it" that off-season.

 

As far as which relievers Alex will overpay for, my money is on Oviedo.

 

This is silly. People should be evaluated by the sum of their work.

 

Let's say it was the other way around. Let's say some GM traded 100 million dollars worth of salary and then replaced some of the WAR with a different side where he got a 4 WAR player for nothing.

 

Would people say "well that other deal was just a side deal... so what!"?? No of course not. They would say the GM was brilliant for offloading 100 million dollar of salary and replacing some of the wins with a different smart deal.

 

This is the type of thing weasels like Paul Beeston say to retain the status quo.