Fire Gibbons?

[JaysAllMighty]

I'm all for it IF they can find someone better that can also bring some seriousness in the clubhouse.

 

There is no professionalism in our players, they look like a bunch of clowns imo.

[CHRIS]

If they cannot do so within that 5 year window, then they are ceremoniously replaced.

 

Would be very interested to see this dismissal ceremony.

[Frenchsoup]

Where is Olerud? This is his kind of thread.

[G-Snarls]

I care 1,000 times more about who plays at catcher, 2B and LF next year than do if they keep Gibby or not

[RealAccountant]

Firing Gibbons would be just the dumbest thing imaginable.

 

In no way, shape, or form is this season on Gibbons.

 

You're right

 

We need to construct the perfect roster then watch Gibbons fail so we can fire him. We will lose a year but at least he will be fired for the right reason

[shortstop]

imo, both Gibby & AA will be back next season to have another kick at the can. Attendance is down but nothing crazy and it was expected. Viewership has been decent, especially during the recent "hope" phase during the Cubs series. Rogers looks at this & says AA/Gibby can still sell hope for next year ie. we were that close, injuries, imagine if we were healthy all year, young exciting arms, team is deeper, etc.

 

The way the O's play is reflective of Showalter. The way the Rays play is reflective of Maddon. Managers imo make a huge difference on culture and the way the team plays. Maybe Gibbons biggest asset for this team is he lets them play loose without as much "structure" as other top teams, maybe not.

 

That said, I like Gibby - the guys respect him & like him. He loves Toronto the city & team, & that in itself gets him points.

 

Gibby or not, in an ideal world imo, jays have one manager for a long period of time. 2 years in an out stuff is amateurish.

 

flawed as this team is, don't think anyone has any issue of this team making the playoffs next year & playing a meaningful series of playoff baseball at a minimum. If that means AA/Gibby stick around for another few years, so be it.

[KingKat]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/despite-latest-dip-gibbons-job-not-in-jeopardy/

 

Sounds like he's getting fired.

 

Yeah it does. I wonder how that will go. AA's track record with managers is shall we say interesting. He kept Cito on for an extra year, ostensibly to due an extended manager search (but probably more out of loyalty to Beeston) and then the result of that search was the hiring of John Farrell, a strategically inept manager who didn't really want to be there. Then he decides to go the "evil you know" route and bring back Gibbons because of the comfort level he had. If he fires Gibbons, what route does he go know? He's tried exhaustive research, he's tried going the familiarity route. What would be his approach now and how does he justify having to hire his fourth manager? He basically would have to convince people that he's really bad a hiring managers but competent otherwise.

[shortstop]

someone pointed out in the media that this time last year, AA was as non-committal as he is now...imo, just standard stuff for AA this time of year...but who really knows...

 

imo, AA/Gibby get along, Gibby will do/say what AA wants him to...imo, AA prefers Gibby

[jays4life19]

someone pointed out in the media that this time last year, AA was as non-committal as he is now...imo, just standard stuff for AA this time of year...but who really knows...

 

imo, AA/Gibby get along, Gibby will do/say what AA wants him to...imo, AA prefers Gibby

 

 

From the article: http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...t-in-jeopardy/

 

"Still, Anthopoulos raised eyebrows Tuesday when he said Gibbons is, “under contract, he’s always under contract pretty much. I don’t think there’s anything to take care of, and I think he has done a good job.”

 

“I’m a big believer that no matter what position, grounds crew, administrative assistant, manager, coach, you support them until you don’t support them,” he added. “Until they’re no longer in this position you support them. That position is going to be that way whether you’re 100 games over .500 or we’re struggling. We always support our staff.”

 

Contrasted with his comments a year ago – last Aug. 27 Anthopoulos replied “yes” when asked if Gibbons would unequivocally be back and added “there’s never been any thought in that respect at all” – there was plenty of room left for conjecture, something the GM has long sought to avoid."

[G-Snarls]

someone pointed out in the media that this time last year, AA was as non-committal as he is now...imo, just standard stuff for AA this time of year...but who really knows...

 

imo, AA/Gibby get along, Gibby will do/say what AA wants him to...imo, AA prefers Gibby

 

It's also VERY possible that AA is made to fire Gibby whether he wants to or not

[RealAccountant]

It's also VERY possible that AA is made to fire Gibby whether he wants to or not

I expect a Gibby firing next year when AA throes him off to save himself

[jays4life19]

Things i know..

1. Managers are over-rated.

2. Gibby is not a terrible manager.

 

So you probably should just stick with him since you know what your going to get. If we had Joe Maddon as our manager this year we would be pretty much in the same position that we are now. Saying that, I'm not going to lose any sleep if we fire him.

[RealAccountant]

Things i know..

1. Managers are over-rated.

2. Gibby is not a terrible manager.

 

So you probably should just stick with him since you know what your going to get. If we had Joe Maddon as our manager this year we would be pretty much in the same position that we are now. Saying that, I'm not going to lose any sleep if we fire him.

 

No we would not be in the same position if we had Joe maddon as the manager this year

 

No

[jays4life19]

No we would not be in the same position if we had Joe maddon as the manager this year

 

No

 

How many wins do you think a manager is worth?

[Governator]

I enjoyed Gibby this season much more than last. I think it happened during the win streak when he started embracing the platoon strategy, having to work with what was given to him. It was just too bad AA did absolutely nothing to address the inevitable regression of 25th roster guys playing well over their heads. It seemed to me like his demeanor had changed as well, likely because of knowing his team much better after a year and making sure everyone understood their role, like moving Lawrie to 2B even if he didn't want to and going by splits & stats best he could.

 

The problem is this team needs more talent, plain & simple. They need depth, they need to be able to attract free agents so they can stop trading their annual haul of prospects. When long DL stints happen, reserve funds need to be there to do what is necessary because of our lack of depth. You can't go weeks on end without EE, Lind, Lawrie, etc. using scraps. Lawrie goes down 6 weeks before the deadline and no support came, except more platoon help weeks later. All of this while sporting 3 catchers.

 

My head hurts, I need to stop typing.

[TDotttt2005]

I voted to fire him, and I think they should clean house.

 

I admittedly don't have a lot of in-game issues with Gibbons. By the measure 'does he put his players in the best position to win', in accordance with RH/LH splits for batters and pitchers, in accordance with stats vs a specific batter or pitcher, in accordance with who has been hitting/pitching well of late, Gibbons does very well.

 

That said, despite what the 'Manager doesnt mean anything' sabrmetrics bros want to tell you , managing has to be more than this, because in this day and age, the batboy could sit in the dugout with a laptop and a stats database and make those moves. The problem is that no fans, and despite what the media (especially rogers-run / Gibby fanboy media) admit, we have no clue what this 'more than this' is, so its hard to explain why players consistently underperform for Gibbons. All i know is that they do. And that hasn't changed despite his two tenures, two totally different teams, top 10 payrolls, etc.

 

I do think Gibbons will be back, because I think AA will be back, and there wont be one without the other at this point. AA won't be allowed to choose another manager, and I dont believe Beeston will fire AA. It will be more of the status quo, excuses excuses excuses.

[jays4life19]

Gibby technically shouldn't be able to 'add' value or wins because he's not playing on the field but he could certainly subtract from them. This team is EXACTLY what they were projected to be based on the talent on the roster. To think Gibby can be some kind of God and to get everyone to perform above their true talent is kind of absurd. No manager is going to make every right decision and sometimes the wrong decisions works out and vice versa. Gibby was able to get this team to perform as expected and that's all you can ask from your manager.

 

So again, We would be in about the same position with Joe Maddon managing this team with maybe a win or two difference.

[Governator]

Gibbons is obviously missing some much needed manager skills; He definitely needs to start bringing penguins, medicine men, and real blue jays to the clubhouse to motivate the team. Maybe a moose & a beaver too. Would bring a couple more wins for sure.

[KingKat]

its hard to explain why players consistently underperform for Gibbons.

 

Whose undeperfomance, specifically, are you trying to explain? Other than Rasmus (who alos overperformed under Gibbons last year), I don't see too many players undeperforming. Reyes and Janssen are clearly regressing but otherwise, it seems like nearly all the starting pitchers are exceeding expectations and the bats are pretty much what you'd expect, the good ones are good, the bad ones are bad.

[shortstop]

It's also VERY possible that AA is made to fire Gibby whether he wants to or not

 

 

true, it's possible.

 

jays4life, forget where I read AA's comments from last year about Gibby but will post if I find it. Difference b/w last year & this - last, easy position to take - jays sucked, injuries, stay the course...this year, harder to come out & give anyone a bill of health, even if AA believes he won't be changing managers/coaches...

 

imo, both AA/Gibby will be back 1 more year...and after that, depends on how they do next year...as a poster noted, could see AA continue to stick around, do what GM's do & change managers (Gibby knows it'll happen eventually, hired to be fired, would gladly take a bullet for AA if that's what he needed to do)...

[Boxcar]

I voted to fire him, and I think they should clean house.

 

I admittedly don't have a lot of in-game issues with Gibbons. By the measure 'does he put his players in the best position to win', in accordance with RH/LH splits for batters and pitchers, in accordance with stats vs a specific batter or pitcher, in accordance with who has been hitting/pitching well of late, Gibbons does very well.

 

That said, despite what the 'Manager doesnt mean anything' sabrmetrics bros want to tell you , managing has to be more than this, because in this day and age, the batboy could sit in the dugout with a laptop and a stats database and make those moves. The problem is that no fans, and despite what the media (especially rogers-run / Gibby fanboy media) admit, we have no clue what this 'more than this' is, so its hard to explain why players consistently underperform for Gibbons. All i know is that they do. And that hasn't changed despite his two tenures, two totally different teams, top 10 payrolls, etc.

 

I do think Gibbons will be back, because I think AA will be back, and there wont be one without the other at this point. AA won't be allowed to choose another manager, and I dont believe Beeston will fire AA. It will be more of the status quo, excuses excuses excuses.

 

Yeah man, guys like Melky, Edwin, Bautista, Navarro, have really underperformed. Rasmus was really good last year and now he sucks which is clearly due to playing for Gibby this year.

 

I dunno, I get the whole "managers don't matter" angle in regards to firing him, but Gibbons probably won't catch on elsewhere and he's doing a fine job here. I don't want to see the wellbeing of an individual unfairly compromised just to sate the bloodlust of dumb fans.

[KingKat]

 

I dunno, I get the whole "managers don't matter" angle in regards to firing him, but Gibbons probably won't catch on elsewhere and he's doing a fine job here. I don't want to see the wellbeing of an individual unfairly compromised just to sate the bloodlust of dumb fans.

 

I think it's an exageration to say his well being will be compromised. He latched on as a bench coach in KC last time he was fired. He has even more experience now so he should be at least as employable as he was if not more and I don't think his reputation in baseball has suffered. He's sound tactician with a pleasant disposition but he's not afraid to put the hammer down if he feels he's being disrespected (see Shea, Lilly, Pillar, Rasmus). He probably won't be a manager again but he'll land another gig. It won't be as lucrative but he had to have known that going in. Unless, he was dumb with his money, he and his family will be fine.

 

I just don't want AA to waste more time on a manager search. No more excuses and no more distractions for AA, he needs to take the bull by the horns and build a better roster. Enough with this stars and scrubs crap. Assemble a decent bench, take advantage of option years to strengthen the 40 man and put your best foot forward for once.

[baubau]

Gibby plays with the hands he's dealt and I think he certainly recognizes the ability and shortcomings of each player. I am sure he's aware of Navvy's poor framing and stuck Kratz with Stroman, Hutch and Happ early on. Can't fault him for AA sending Kratz up/down and moving him. He has also benched Franny full time since getting Valencia. Pretty sure he knew he was never a real solution out in 1st and 3rd base. Again, cannot fault him for being in a position where he had to play him as he had no one else. He's also be very blunt on expectations for Rasmus as King mentioned which is good.

 

I am sure Gibby would have loved to have certain players up and others down, however he only manages the roster. AA is the one that fields it for him. Changing Gibbons won't change the .500 ball club this team is.

[Stangstag]

Im tired of Gibbons. We need a "new school" manager who doesn't still go by dinosaur methods.

[Vincent]

I’m really disappointed in this board. Every year it’s the same spiel: the Blue Jays are losing therefore the answer must be to fire the manager. What is your succession plan? Firing the manager in itself does not help the team. Who do you suggest can do a better job than Gibbons? While I’m sure you think this is easy to answer, it’s really not. It’s easy for the simple-minded to point a finger at an individual rather than a group but it’s just not right.

 

Gibbons is a good tactician, I would say above average in terms of major league managers. There are a lot worse out there. He’s better then John Farrell and Farrell won the World Series last year. He’s better than Brad Ausmus and the Tigers will likely win the division.

[KingKat]

We need a "new school" manager who doesn't still go by dinosaur methods.

 

What does this even mean?

[TDotttt2005]

I’m really disappointed in this board. Every year it’s the same spiel: the Blue Jays are losing therefore the answer must be to fire the manager. What is your succession plan? Firing the manager in itself does not help the team. Who do you suggest can do a better job than Gibbons? While I’m sure you think this is easy to answer, it’s really not. It’s easy for the simple-minded to point a finger at an individual rather than a group but it’s just not right.

 

Gibbons is a good tactician, I would say above average in terms of major league managers. There are a lot worse out there. He’s better then John Farrell and Farrell won the World Series last year. He’s better than Brad Ausmus and the Tigers will likely win the division.

 

Who are you, Wilner? No one is ever to blame. Its this logic that lets management and ownership get a pass year after year, which leads to this godforsaken draught the team is on. You cant blame the manager because hes not on the field.

 

Who then?

 

Gibbons plays the percentages, so he is a good tactician (A computer could do this). So you cant blame him.

 

Who then? You have to blame the players?

 

AA is responsible for getting the players. But when he got them, they had good track records. So you cant blame him.

 

Who then? The players who have underperformed their track records?

 

But according to posters on this board, the players have not underperformed, and the team has not underperformed. So you cant blame them.

 

Who then? The injuries?

 

Baltimore has lost Wieters, Machado, and now Davis (suspension not injury, granted). Yankees tied with us have been without Teixera, Tanaka, Pineda, Sabathia, Nova, etc etc. and these teams are better, and tied with us, respectively. So Injuries arent to blame.

 

Question remains WHO IS TO BLAME?

 

Its obvious that these players playing together on this team in this year with this manager in this stadium on this astroturf all are contributing to the failure. Whats the answer? Seems to many posters on this board that the answer is that we keep doing the same things, and expect different result. That is the definition of insanity.

[reedjohnsonfan]

No we would not be in the same position if we had Joe maddon as the manager this year

 

No

 

If the Jays had Joe Maddon, it's possible they could be doing worse. Who knows?

[Vincent]

Who are you, Wilner? No one is ever to blame. Its this logic that lets management and ownership get a pass year after year, which leads to this godforsaken draught the team is on. You cant blame the manager because hes not on the field.

 

Who then?

 

You didn't have to get so carried away. Essentially I blame AA for the moves that he's made and the players he's put on the field. I blame Paul Beeston for allowing AA to make those moves. I can't blame the players because they've pretty much all done what they were supposed to do (what you said is not true). But I most definitely do not blame Gibbons.

 

Obviously something needs to be done, and it's not changing he manager. It's acquiring better players, in particular at those positions that are lacking.

[TDotttt2005]

You didn't have to get so carried away. Essentially I blame AA for the moves that he's made and the players he's put on the field. I blame Paul Beeston for allowing AA to make those moves. I can't blame the players because they've pretty much all done what they were supposed to do (what you said is not true). But I most definitely do not blame Gibbons.

 

Obviously something needs to be done, and it's not changing he manager. It's acquiring better players, in particular at those positions that are lacking.

 

Fair enough. I honestly don't know what another manager couldve done with this team, and I don't buy the tactician stuff because in this day and age, it comes from a bench coach holding a binder with numbers. Whats obvious is that Gibbons hasn't won with this team despite the payroll. I agree that Beeston and AA should go, and if they do, Gibbons is gone.