GDT (3/3): Tampa Bay Rays @ Toronto Blue Jays - Archer vs. Hutchison - 1:07 PM ET

[GD]

Glasnow doesn't anything for you? Dude is talented as hell

 

The walks are a bit of an issue but the main this is I don't think I'd want just a good pitching prospect as the main piece

 

If we were getting a pitcher back as the main piece for Bau imo it'd have to be good

[BTS]

Glasnow doesn't anything for you? Dude is talented as hell

 

An A+ ball pitcher deal as the centerpiece in a trade is risky business. If Pittsburgh wants Bautista, it has to be Cole + IMO.

[Atothe]

The walks are a bit of an issue but the main this is I don't think I'd want just a good pitching prospect as the main piece

 

If we were getting a pitcher back as the main piece for Bau imo it'd have to be good

 

To be honest Pirates system is s*** with Polanco having graduated and Taillon hurt. Boston or Dodgers Please

[Atothe]

An A+ ball pitcher deal as the centerpiece in a trade is risky business. If Pittsburgh wants Bautista, it has to be Cole + IMO.

 

I think they would say no

[Atothe]

Bautista to Dodgers for Seager and Urias + more. Swoon

 

edit: I know its ridiculous but I can dream

[BTS]

I think they would say no

 

Yeah, especially considering they don't really need Bautista with Cutch, Polanco, and Marte around.

[jaysfan2014]

Bautista to Dodgers for Seager and Urias + more. Swoon

 

edit: I know its ridiculous but I can dream

 

Won't work unless the Dodgers make the Jays take Ethier, Kemp or Crawford. LA can't take anymore outfielders with so many overpaid OFs on the roster, and Joc Pederson blocked by LA spending so much on Kemp and Ethier, along with taking Crawford's contract in 2012.

[jaysfan2014]

To be honest Pirates system is s*** with Polanco having graduated and Taillon hurt. Boston or Dodgers Please

 

Dodgers will only work if they kick money in for us to take Kemp, Crawford or Ethier, as they are desperate to move an outfielder.

[ElNik2013]

I've been suggesting trading a guy like Bautista for 2 or more young players either ready for MLB or on the cusp. Not claiming I was the first at all, just to make it clear.

 

 

It would definitely be a huge P.R. hit though and I don't think this franchise operates this way. If he asked for a trade, it would make it easier.

 

 

Interestingly, I see that some have suggested signing Russell Martin. Imagine having potentially 3 starting Canadian position players!!! It may be enough to make up for the P.R. hit they'd take by trading Bautista.

[TheHurl]

To be honest Pirates system is s*** with Polanco having graduated and Taillon hurt. Boston or Dodgers Please

 

I'd rank them top 10 for sure...most would rank them top 5, but those people like pitching prospects which the Pirates have plenty of. Outside of the obvious two (Taillon and Glasnow) I really like the unflashy Kingham who projects to be a mid-rotation innings eater type. They also have a guy by the name of Adrian Sampson who just got called up to AAA. Again they aren't flashy numbers but turns out he never threw a changeup until this year (or at least never learned to throw one properly)...and it joins his curve as a plus pitch. He looked average solid in the game against Louisville this week. He's gone 6 innings 21 times this year...I love those guys. Pittsburgh is following the Marlins with pitchers that have unsexy stat lines but are effective.

 

As for hitters, the guy to truly look out for the Pirates is Harold Ramirez, most upside of any prospect in all of baseball. He's lacking one tool which is expected to develop (power). I'm calling it now...if he recovers from the shin injury (and doesn't develop any other injuries). He's top 20 mid-season prospect next year. Maybe top 10.

[Abomination]

Interestingly, I see that some have suggested signing Russell Martin. Imagine having potentially 3 starting Canadian position players!!! It may be enough to make up for the P.R. hit they'd take by trading Bautista.

 

To be clear, we aren't suggesting Martin because he's Canadian. That's just a nice bonus. We're suggesting him because he's basically averaged 4 WAR the last two years, plays godly defense, and is an excellent pitch framer.

[jaysfan2014]

Why would they give up Owens, he's pretty much their best pitcher. Would love that trade though

 

And the Jays would hang up the phone. Cespedes is a free agent after 2015, and Betts + Owens isn't enough to move Bautista, especially considering the uncertainty on Betts regarding where is he best suited.

[CJ-Freeway]

Red Sox have the prospects to acquire Bautista. Conversation has to start with Betts, though.

 

As much sense as it makes, I really can't see a deal like that happening. I don't think AA will be throwing the towel in.

 

Exactly. Trading Bautista in the offseason would absolutely KILL the attendance in 2015.

[BTS]

To be clear, we aren't suggesting Martin because he's Canadian. That's just a nice bonus. We're suggesting him because he's basically averaged 4 WAR the last two years, plays godly defense, and is an excellent pitch framer.

 

I still don't understand how he wasn't priority #1 the offseason he signed in Pittsburgh.

[Abomination]

I still don't understand how he wasn't priority #1 the offseason he signed in Pittsburgh.

 

Yeah. People on here were wanting him badly too. It's possible he simply didn't want to come here. It's also possible they were really just that high on JPA.

[GD]

And the Jays would hang up the phone. Cespedes is a free agent after 2015, and Betts + Owens isn't enough to move Bautista, especially considering the uncertainty on Betts regarding where is he best suited.

 

oi.

[ElNik2013]

To be clear, we aren't suggesting Martin because he's Canadian. That's just a nice bonus. We're suggesting him because he's basically averaged 4 WAR the last two years, plays godly defense, and is an excellent pitch framer.

 

 

Oh, I know why you're suggesting signing him. I only mentioned his Canadianness in trying to think of reasons the Jays would sign him given that they don't seem to understand the important of defense so I figured they could sign him because he's Canadian and to help mitigate the P.R. hit they'd take by trading Bautista.

[jaysfan2014]

Exactly. Trading Bautista in the offseason would absolutely KILL the attendance in 2015.

 

Plus, Boston is going nowhere in 2015 regardless of Castillo, Cespedes and any pitcher they add. There are a lot of issues with the Red Sox roster right now..

 

It starts with the pitching, as none of their young pitchers have been effective in the majors so far, with Workman just getting optioned to AAA after putting up a near 5 ERA (4.21 xFIP, 4.30 SIERA) and some mediocre peripherals. Clay Buchholz is still suffering from Ricky Romero-itis.. and Rubby De La Rosa has been pitching well above his head and is due for regression.. but he has been one of their better pitchers. Allen Webster has long-term bullpen middle reliever written all over him.. his control issues aren't getting any better, and he continues to get lit up.. his SIERA is over 6 and xFIP is an ugly 5.93. And of course, the jury's still out on Anthony Ranaudo, Matt Barnes and Henry Owens, as two of those pitchers have yet to reach the majors, and Ranaudo has put up less-than stellar numbers in the MLB despite the 2-0 record. And Joe Kelly is a backend starter/long reliever at best. Boston has a lot of work to do with that rotation.. one ace starter isn't going to fix this mess.

 

For 2015, only De La Rosa should be guaranteed a spot, along with Kelly. None of the others, even Buchholz, should be guaranteed a spot on a big-market team like Boston. But I can't see Boston adding more than 1 starter, if any because of the low-balling they did with Jon Lester possibly leaving a sour taste in agent's mouths, and ownership's impetus not to add starters on 5-6 years deals when over 30 due to the risk of the contracts being albatrosses (Sabathia, Verlander, potentially Cain). Oh, and they need to resign Uehara as well.

 

As for the offense, any improvement must come from David Ortiz and Dustin Pedroia. Especially Pedroia, who needs to show better numbers offensively than what he's had this season(100 points below career norms on OPS.) and is being paid like the .800 OPS hitter he's supposed to be.

They need Bogaerts to develop.. and right now, he should be in AAA right now working on his swing, but is only up because Boston refuses to give up on him due to being a #1 prospect, even though they're better off putting Holt there for the time being. Ditto for Middlebrooks.. he needs to stay healthy and show his power potential. But time is running out for him.. he'll be 27 next season and might be out of options.

 

And despite what fans think, Stanton is NOT walking through that door.. Miami wants MLB ready young players for Stanton, and will not take AA/AAA prospects that are years away, especially when they're trying to contend.

Edited August 25, 2014 by jaysfan2014

[GD]

There's just something about raysjays' posts that make me want to do the whole trapped in a well Silence of the Lambs thing to him.

[Maahfaace]

I wonder what Boston would move for Bautista. His value is just going to keep declining until his contract expires. Something like Betts + Cespedes + Owens would be a bit interesting.

 

I was thinking maybe ATL could get into the mix. At this point the Braves have to be pondering how to rid themselves of BJ Upton while cleaning him off their books, and considering what happened with Uggla, they might be willing to eat a decent chunk of his salary. Santana and Harang will not be back next year, and the Braves will have 2 Starters returning from TJ surgery next year, dependability is something they would desire for the rotation for a year. In addition, even if Heyward has a decent season next year, it's doubtful the Braves will offer him a long term extension that he would accept given how much they've doled out to there youthful core. (Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel, Tehran and Chris Johnson to a lesser extent) . They had an opportunity to back load a team friendly deal not too long ago and decided against given his injury history.

 

To the Braves

Jose Bautista

Mark Buerhle

 

To the Jays

BJ Upton

Jason Heyward

Jose Peraza

JR Graham

Lucas Sims

Braxton Davidson

+15 million (potential delayed payments until revenue from new stadium is in.)

 

Jays would be eating BJ's contract, but the sting would be lessened by their contractual obligations past 2015, the overall salary relief, and a nice haul of prospects. . Peraza is a stud leadoff 2B in the making, JR Graham has a cannon, although he's definitely ticketed as a RP now.

Watching Heyward's GG defense patrol right field would be mmmmmmmm

 

Anyone have AA and Frank Wren's email?

[GD]

Isn't Heyward Boras?

[Jimcanuck]

Cameron ranks Bautista #27 in trade value http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2014-trade-value-20-11/

 

The article was posted July 17, 2014, his trade value has declined some since.

 

************

 

27 Jose Bautista 33 TOR OF 4.8 2016 $28,000,000 35

 

In the first section, we had Edwin Encarnacion. Last section, we had Carlos Gomez. This section’s two-cheap-years-of-a-star player is Jose Bautista, who has evolved to remain an elite hitter even as his power has begun to wane over the last few seasons. His breakout years were driven by ISOs over .300, but his current .210 mark is closer to his pre-breakout norms, and yet, he’s still running a 151 wRC+. As the league has shifted more and more towards strikeouts, Bautista has moved away from them. His K% by year, since the breakout: 17%, 17%, 16%, 16%, 15%.

 

Even without 50 home run power anymore, Bautista remains a dominant offensive force, and he’s not a defensive liability either. As a +5 WAR player making $14 million per year, Bautista is near the top of the list in terms of short-term value. His age and the fact that he’s only got two years left on his deal limit the long-term upside, but there’s enough short-term value for it to not matter too much.

 

****************

 

Strasburg at 26, Matt Harvey at 25

 

Some time ago the Jays traded TWO fan favourites to San Diego. An AL home run champ and reigning GG shortstop to San Diego. Here's an analysis http://bluejaysway.com/2013/01/02/breaking-down-the-1990-blue-jays-padres-blockbuster-trade/

 

Of course AA is no Pat Gillick. But it is laughable to read here that trading Bautista will kill 2015 attendance. Attendance increased after the above trade and slightly decreased after the Halladay trade. And Bautista is no fan favourite on the level of Halladay or Fernandez. In fact, some people (myself included) think he is an egotistical bastard and clubhouse cancer.

 

And if AA will not trade Bautista because he is his 'golden signing', he shouldn't be GM.

[jaysfan2014]

I was thinking maybe ATL could get into the mix. At this point the Braves have to be pondering how to rid themselves of BJ Upton while cleaning him off their books, and considering what happened with Uggla, they might be willing to eat a decent chunk of his salary. Santana and Harang will not be back next year, and the Braves will have 2 Starters returning from TJ surgery next year, dependability is something they would desire for the rotation for a year. In addition, even if Heyward has a decent season next year, it's doubtful the Braves will offer him a long term extension that he would accept given how much they've doled out to there youthful core. (Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel, Tehran and Chris Johnson to a lesser extent) . They had an opportunity to back load a team friendly deal not too long ago and decided against given his injury history.

 

To the Braves

Jose Bautista

Mark Buerhle

 

To the Jays

BJ Upton

Jason Heyward

Jose Peraza

JR Graham

Lucas Sims

Braxton Davidson

+15 million (potential delayed payments until revenue from new stadium is in.)

 

Jays would be eating BJ's contract, but the sting would be lessened by their contractual obligations past 2015, the overall salary relief, and a nice haul of prospects. . Peraza is a stud leadoff 2B in the making, JR Graham has a cannon, although he's definitely ticketed as a RP now.

Watching Heyward's GG defense patrol right field would be mmmmmmmm

 

Anyone have AA and Frank Wren's email?

 

Jays hang up because of BJ Upton and Braves hang up because they have no interest in getting rid of Jason Heyward.. nobody wants that contract, plus the Braves aren't giving up any of those players you suggest.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Bautista,buehrle,Lind,Cabrera to seattle

 

Walker, Taylor, kivilehan, Marte,Pike and ackley to jays!

 

Throw in some money and one of muni or tolleson or goins maybe?

[jaysfan2014]

Bautista,buehrle,Lind,Cabrera to seattle

 

Walker, Taylor, kivilehan, Marte,Pike and ackley to jays!

 

Throw in some money and one of muni or tolleson or goins maybe?

 

Seattle hangs up quickly. They can't take on any more money, nor do they want to give up their young players.

 

Look, everybody, save your Bautista trade rumors until he actually demands a trade. This isn't fair to him or the Jays organization. Plus, this isn't a market like Oakland or Miami, who would've been pressured to trade him due to money.

[glory]

Taveras and Martinez from the Cardinals. A direct OF replacement for Bautista with six years of control left plus another starting option with upside to stick in the rotation. Bautista seems like a player the Cardinals would trade their top prospect for (they usually like to keep their prospects).

 

I'm not trading with the Red Sox unless I get Betts, Swihart, and Owens. Seeing Bats win with the Red Sox would be disgusting.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Why me? Did you see the trades before mine to our own division?

Did you see where I said throw in some money! How do you know seattle has No money?

What is a World Series worth to them ? Financially do you know?

So let's just hang on to the whinny bitch till he is worth nothing!

I would rather see Edwin as the face of and leader of this team.

Rather have young players learn and act like him then Bautista!

[GD]

BBBB, what's your obsession with Walker?

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

BBBB, what's your obsession with Walker?

 

Depth is a good thing!