Offseason roster thread 2014

[glory]

Why the f*** would the Phillies want Romero and Izturis?

 

They wouldn't.

 

But no team is going to want Papelbon at his current salary + vesting option (effectively making it a 2/26 deal).

 

Depends entirely on whether the Phillies want to dump him for his behavior, hence why the Jays are dumping equally undesirable players on their end to make the salary swap a bit more plausible. The Jays would obviously have to add something (a prospect) since Papelbon is a productive douche rather than just a normal douche, but no one should take that salary as is.

[burlingtonbandit]

They wouldn't.

 

But no team is going to want Papelbon at his current salary + vesting option (effectively making it a 2/26 deal).

 

Depends entirely on whether the Phillies want to dump him for his behavior, hence why the Jays are dumping equally undesirable players on their end to make the salary swap a bit more plausible. The Jays would obviously have to add something (a prospect) since Papelbon is a productive douche rather than just a normal douche, but no one should take that salary as is.

 

Honestly I think that trade is a lose-lose trade for both teams. No point in doing that deal for both sides.

[glory]

You're on the right track.

 

If you're going to stick with much of this "nucleus" ...

 

2B Reyes

LF Aoki

1B Bautista

DH Encarnacion

3B Lawrie

SS Drew

C Navarro

RF Pompey

CF Gose/Pillar

 

 

And I'd be hardcore looking to package Lawrie plus a young pitcher or two ... or three (Sanchez, Norris, etc.), for a durable, studly 3B. Come on, Billy ... I know you want to part with Donaldson ... it'll make you feel good.

 

Go out and get yourself a mid-rotation innings eater (or better) ... McCarthy, Masterson, Santana, Peavy

 

Sign some value bullpen arms ... and run with it.

 

I agree about moving Lawrie. It's doubtful he ever hits like many thought/hoped he would, but the fact that he can't stay on the field at this young of an age is a bad sign. If they could trade him while he is still young and presumably has some value/upside left, it might be for the best, depending on the return, of course.

[Jimcanuck]

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/09/29/toronto-blue-jays-jose-bautista-melky-cabrera-is-gone-but-dalton-pompey-has-just-arrived/

 

Bautista weighs in.... again dissin management

 

Trade him while his value is high.... Cubbies could be interested and have surplus young position prospects

[burlingtonbandit]

For numerous reasons:

 

1. Bautista and EE are paid for their bats. It's their money maker, and it's what the Jays can't afford to do without (if they plan to contend soon). They're both getting up their in age, and due to their importance, you want to protect them in the field, so you put them where you're most likely to retain their health ... 1B and DH.

 

2. 1B is easy. For any player other than the most unathletic, all you need to play an adequate 1B is reps. His performance in spot duty at 1B during the season is not indicative of what he could provide if he went into spring training and practiced (nearly) exclusively at 1B. As a full-time 1B, he won't be below average there.

 

3. His OF defense will erode as he ages.

 

4. His replacement in the field will be light years better than him.

 

5. This setup makes sense ... for the team ... for roster flexibility. You aren't putting 9 guys out there and 162 games later, you add up those 9 guys' contributions at those positions and you have your offensive/defensive performance. Guys need to rest. You need to replace injured, or banged-up guys, short-term and, sometimes, long-term. You have Bautista play 1st, but, when needed, he can cover in the OF ... and EE can move to 1B. Not like that stupid situation where you have 2 DHs, just to fill that overflow spot (Lind and platoon partner), so that you can't "rest" your weary/hurt guys at DH. You have an uber-defense, cost effective OF. Hopefully you've made the move to get a 3rd big bat, taking pressure off the younger guys. You can always shift Bautista back to the OF if one of the OF options completely flops.

 

You're in a much better roster position than you were this year.

 

If you are talking 2 years down the line then maybe I'd agree but if you are talking about this coming season then not a chance. 1B is probably worse for Bautista's health then it is in the OF because of the constant bending. Bautsita's value takes a huge hit of you move him to 1B and there is no need to since he has played an above average RF.

 

If you are concerned about his health you can always DH him once every 2 weeks.

[RealAccountant]

Didn't see this posted anywhere but AA was on TSN Radio today, and insinuated that Melky had rejected an offer made during the all star break

 

Furthermore Jays and Melky were miles apart and had different ideas on a contract

 

Pretty much safe to conclude that Jays wont be resigning Melky

[jays4life19]

Didn't see this posted anywhere but AA was on TSN Radio today, and insinuated that Melky had rejected an offer made during the all star break

 

Furthermore Jays and Melky were miles apart and had different ideas on a contract

 

Pretty much safe to conclude that Jays wont be resigning Melky

 

Melky is probably looking for big money. I have no problems letting him walk.

[RealAccountant]

Melky is probably looking for big money. I have no problems letting him walk.

 

Yep Pillar is just as effective. Failure to replace Melky means the current lineup as follows

 

Reyes

Lawrie?

Bautista

Encarnacion

Lind

Navarro

Pillar

Gose

Izturis

 

Lol

[jays4life19]

Yep Pillar is just as effective. Failure to replace Melky means the current lineup as follows

 

Reyes

Lawrie?

Bautista

Encarnacion

Lind

Navarro

Pillar

Gose

Izturis

 

Lol

 

Um. Yeah. Never said anything about wanting Pillar in LF.

 

Aoki please.

[RealAccountant]

Um. Yeah. Never said anything about wanting Pillar in LF.

 

Aoki please.

 

I dont think any of those dreams are coming through. Based on history with AA, combined with budget restraints, and a focus towards improving the bullpen, I think Pillar will definitely be starting next year.

[burlingtonbandit]

I dont think any of those dreams are coming through. Based on history with AA, combined with budget restraints, and a focus towards improving the bullpen, I think Pillar will definitely be starting next year.

 

If Pillar makes this team its as a platoon RHB in the OF. He won't be starting.

[jays4life19]

I dont think any of those dreams are coming through. Based on history with AA, combined with budget restraints, and a focus towards improving the bullpen, I think Pillar will definitely be starting next year.

 

My dreams consist of signing Russell Martin.

 

Aoki is not an unrealistic target for the Jays considering what his contract demands will be.

[BTS]

I really like Aoki as a player. Plus OF defender, average hitter who can get on base, and is a very tough out who can really handle the bat. I'd love for the team to sign him and let Melky go. He'll probably earn less than half of what Melky gets, might be the better player, and would allow the team to net a comp pick while not losing anything in LF.

 

My dreams consist of signing Russell Martin.

 

Aoki is not an unrealistic target for the Jays considering what his contract demands will be.

[glory]

Count me in as preferring Aoki to Melky. Cheaper and the results will probably be similar, if not in favor of Aoki when factoring defense. I think you might be able to get Aoki on a three year deal too, which is a reasonable length, whereas Melky probably wants 4 or 5 years.

 

As far as Bautista to 1B, I'd only move him there if the Jays got a RF improvement. I don't think he'd be too happy with moving to 1B either. I definitely like the reasoning behind it though (minimizing injury risk). Not sure Bautista will buy it. The Jays don't strike me as an organization that will lay the hammer down with players. They will cater to the players or trade them.

[burlingtonbandit]

Count me in as preferring Aoki to Melky. Cheaper and the results will probably be similar, if not in favor of Aoki when factoring defense. I think you might be able to get Aoki on a three year deal too, which is a reasonable length, whereas Melky probably wants 4 or 5 years.

 

As far as Bautista to 1B, I'd only move him there if the Jays got a RF improvement. I don't think he'd be too happy with moving to 1B either. I definitely like the reasoning behind it though (minimizing injury risk). Not sure Bautista will buy it. The Jays don't strike me as an organization that will lay the hammer down with players. They will cater to the players or trade them.

 

I don't get this minimize injury talk about Bautista. Why would you want to move a guy who has played an average to above average RF to 1B when he doesn't want to and it wouldn't help the team be better? You would have to move Lind or EE if that is the case and you can't tell me the team would be better.

[sdyment]

Anybody know Iszturis' (sp?) injury status? There was optimism around him heading into 2014. Can he be a cheap (re: already signed) option at 2nd in 2015?

[GD]

I don't really feel like getting into a Moogy argument, but BB, I gotta say that 1B is a LOT easier on your health than RF.

[Boxcar]

But dude, you gots to bend at 1B. Bending is hard.

 

You idiots aren't even taking into account that he'd occasionally have to catch a pretty hard throw. That does a number on your arm.

[glory]

Lind gets hurt playing 1B because he is injury prone with back issues (and back issues can flare up doing anything), not because the position involves bending. There is a reason why bad defensive players move to 1B. It's easy to learn and less risky. That doesn't mean playing 1B will prevent Bautista from getting hurt but it would be a lot less demanding defensively.

[G-Snarls]

If I extend Melky for 4-ish years, I think I'm doing so assuming he becomes a primary DH (+ backup OF only) by year 3. At that point, I suspect we're done with Adam Lind.

 

Is everybody OK with that?

 

At least Melky can hit every day against every pitcher, but will cost quite a bit more than Lind

[Atothe]

Bautista is old, slow and has bad range but I would rather him in the outfield then Melky. Don't give me a "DAT ARM" counterargument

[G-Snarls]

Bautista is old, slow and has bad range but I would rather him in the outfield then Melky. Don't give me a "DAT ARM" counterargument

 

That's part of the "problem" though - they both have good arms. You don't want to waste it, but getting to balls is, I presume, a much more important skill than throwing, in the overall value an outfielder provides defensively?

Edited September 30, 2014 by G-Snarls

[shortstop]

I have no issue with trading Bautista if the plan is to start afresh.

 

but imo, the winds just aren't blowing that way yet - I think we'll get 1 more season of JB for one final kick at the can with this group - old faces + some new fresh faces as Gibby put it in a recent I/v.

 

Since it's likely MC ain't coming back, I like the thought of a decent contact hitter/tough out at the #2 spot who could take over at the top of the order in the event Reyes is down.

 

Perhaps the $$ savings could be used on a legitimate 2B with some avg & pop or the catcher position & spending $$'s on Russell Martin who imo would do wonders for the staff & confidence for this team.

 

Reyes

Aoki

Bautista

X - Lind/new DH/revolving door

Edwin

Martin

Lawrie

2B - depending on who this is, could be moved up in the order

3rd OF

 

too many right handed bats in that lineup perhaps. but possible to do more with this lineup with MC, Rasmus, Lind, (and maybe even Navarro) gone and guys like Aoki, Martin, a legit major league 2B with avg/pop, and a Lind replacement that doesn't milk up the DH spot & can actually play some other positions.

[jays4life19]

Ive said it before...but.

Sign: Russell Martin, Nori Aoki, Brandon McCarthy

Trade: Buehrle to Texas for a RP (or whatever) + Navarro to LA for Justin Turner.

QO Melky and get the draft pick.

Resign Brandon Morrow for closer. ( Let Santos and Janssen walk)

Pick up Linds option and platoon him with Mayberry JR or Valencia

Playoffs here we come.

[G-Snarls]

Ive said it before...but.

Sign: Russell Martin, Nori Aoki, Brandon McCarthy

Trade: Buehrle to Texas for a RP (or whatever) + Navarro to LA for Justin Turner.

QO Melky and get the draft pick.

Resign Brandon Morrow for closer. ( Let Santos and Janssen walk)

Pick up Linds option and platoon him with Mayberry JR or Valencia

Playoffs here we come.

 

Phew!

 

I would do all this, but zero chance AA even considers. (plus low prob of being able to sign all those FA guys anyway)

[jays4life19]

Phew!

 

I would do all this, but zero chance AA even considers. (plus low prob of being able to sign all those FA guys anyway)

 

Oh absolutely it will never happen. Russell Martin would obviously be the toughest, but maybe he wants to finish his career in Canada. I doubt it since he always blows team Canada off. But if we're paying top $ i can't see why he would choose another team.

 

Hard to say the market for Aoki but i think he's a very reasonable target. Every team could have had McCarthy on waivers mid year and passed on him. Yeah he was fantastic down the stretch but i think he's a reasonable target too.

[G-Snarls]

Oh absolutely it will never happen. Russell Martin would obviously be the toughest, but maybe he wants to finish his career in Canada. I doubt it since he always blows team Canada off. But if we're paying top $ i can't see why he would choose another team.

 

Hard to say the market for Aoki but i think he's a very reasonable target. Every team could have had McCarthy on waivers mid year and passed on him. Yeah he was fantastic down the stretch but i think he's a reasonable target too.

 

Ryan Dempster

Russell Martin

Joey Votto

 

Dissers of their Canadian home land all the time

 

*******s. f*** all those guys. Who needs 'em! (dammit, actually, we do...)

[KingKat]

Is it crazy to think that you could get two years of Aoki for the same money as Melky's qualifying offer?

[jays4life19]

Is it crazy to think that you could get two years of Aoki for the same money as Melky's qualifying offer?

 

I think it's reasonable Aoki ends up with half the AAV of salary that Melky get's but on a shorter term and provides similar value.

[G-Snarls]

Is it crazy to think that you could get two years of Aoki for the same money as Melky's qualifying offer?

 

Only mildly crazy