Beeston: Jays payroll will go up in 2015

[CHRIS]

Cliffs on Gord Ash? I was too young to pay attention.

 

- John Olerud PLUS $5 million for Robert Person

- David Cone for Marty Janzen

- Ruben Sierra over Shawn Green

- Trading Roger Clemens after he puts up seasons of 10.8 and 8.5 WAR

[Chappy]

The team options are all kinda interesting:

 

Morrow 10 M option and 1M buyout

Lind 7.5 M option and 1 M buyout

Happ 6.7 M option 0.2 M buyout

McGowan 4 M option 0.5 buyout

Thole (I don't even know the terms)

 

Lind will be back. Morrow probably won't. I could see the team going either way on the other three. Personally, the only one I'd pick up is Lind assuming a 135-140 payroll.

 

The only one I would want back is Lind and even then I'm not sure I would bring him back. It all depends on how much payroll goes up by. $30-35M just isn't enough to address all the needs sufficiently and given that we have Francisco and Reimold in the mix, that's not a bad platoon at DH.

[Terminator]

Ash did draft a few key players, but really over the course of his tenure it wasn't good enough IMO. I agree his trades were dreadful.

 

So bad.

 

When he did these deals he would take a good or even great player (whether it be Clemens, Green, Wells, etc.) and rather than trading them for young, cheap prospects he would deal them for similar, yet inferior players. Clemens for Wells and Homer Bush, Green for Mondesi, etc. It just made no sense.

[Chappy]

- John Olerud PLUS $5 million for Robert Person

- David Cone for Marty Janzen

- Ruben Sierra over Shawn Green

- Trading Roger Clemens after he puts up seasons of 10.8 and 8.5 WAR

 

To be fair Clemons and Green wanted out. But he was still a bumbling idiot.

[Chappy]

So bad.

 

When he did these deals he would take a good or even great player (whether it be Clemens, Green, Wells, etc.) and rather than trading them for young, cheap prospects he would deal them for similar, yet inferior players. Clemens for Wells and Homer Bush, Green for Mondesi, etc. It just made no sense.

 

He was in win now made with lacklustre teams. Oh well at least it's a very distant memory for me.

[HERPDERP]

Bring Gillick back pls

 

It's not like the Phillies are a great franchise

[CHRIS]

To be fair Clemons and Green wanted out. But he was still a bumbling idiot.

 

Green wanted out because Cito and Willie Upshaw wouldn't shut up about trying to get Green to HIT DAT BALL!

 

Clemens wanted out because *gasp*, Beeston lied to him about how competitive the team was going to be. Beeston told him the team would do whatever it took to...I can't even.

[Terminator]

- John Olerud PLUS $5 million for Robert Person

 

Geezus he even threw money in to that deal? lol

 

I remember how bad Person was. They tried him out as a starter and he was horrid. Then they made him the CL the following season and that lasted about a week. Then they dumped him to the Phillies for someone (I can't remember) and Person actually had a decent season or two. haha

[Chappy]

Green wanted out because Cito and Willie Upshaw wouldn't shut up about trying to get Green to HIT DAT BALL!

 

Clemens wanted out because *gasp*, Beeston lied to him about how competitive the team was going to be. Beeston told him the team would do whatever it took to...I can't even.

 

They certainly had their reasons for wanting out.

[Chappy]

Geezus he even threw money in to that deal? lol

 

I remember how bad Person was. They tried him out as a starter and he was horrid. Then they made him the CL the following season and that lasted about a week. Then they dumped him to the Phillies for someone (I can't remember) and Person actually had a decent season or two. haha

 

Weren't they hailing him as a potential frontline SP when they acquired him?

[jaysfan2014]

To be fair Clemons and Green wanted out. But he was still a bumbling idiot.

 

Especially trading Clemens to the Yankees.. NEVER trade a top pitcher in division. If Gord Ash had a brain then, someone like Atlanta, NY Mets and others would have won a World Series back then during Clemens' time with the Yankees, because he would've probably traded Clemens elsewhere.

[TheHurl]

The team options are all kinda interesting:

 

Morrow 10 M option and 1M buyout

Lind 7.5 M option and 1 M buyout

Happ 6.7 M option 0.2 M buyout

McGowan 4 M option 0.5 buyout

Thole (I don't even know the terms)

 

Lind will be back. Morrow probably won't. I could see the team going either way on the other three. Personally, the only one I'd pick up is Lind assuming a 135-140 payroll.

 

2.05 ERA since the All Star break. Happ will be back...they probably exercised his option in the 5th last night.

[Terminator]

Weren't they hailing him as a potential frontline SP when they acquired him?

 

Yep.

 

Then when they moved him to CL they made a big push on how that would allow him to shine. The marketing department really tried hard in pushing him for some reason lol.

[jaysfan2014]

To be fair Clemons and Green wanted out. But he was still a bumbling idiot.

 

If they had been able to keep Clemens, the Jays might've made the playoffs back in 1999 or 2000.

[Terminator]

2.05 ERA since the All Star break. Happ will be back...they probably exercised his option in the 5th last night.

 

lol

[jaysfan2014]

2.05 ERA since the All Star break. Happ will be back...they probably exercised his option in the 5th last night.

 

Definitely. We do need to keep him around, in case we decide to trade Dickey or Buehrle in the offseason.

[CHRIS]

Geezus he even threw money in to that deal? lol

 

Obviously the Mets weren't going to trade Person and his 4.52 ERA straight up for a 27 year old former batting champion coming off a .373 wOBA season. I mean, he only had 18 dingers....AS A FIRST BASEMAN!!!

[CHRIS]

Weren't they hailing him as a potential frontline SP when they acquired him?

 

The only thing Beeston and Ash should be hailing is a taxi cab.

[TheHurl]

Weren't they hailing him as a potential frontline SP when they acquired him?

 

guy was 26, never was a top 100 prospect and never had a sub 3.00 ERA in the minors. He was exactly what they acquired.

[HERPDERP]

Why do people still s*** on Happ? He's doing a great job as the 5th starter. Reminds me of Josh Towers days.

[CHRIS]

Then they dumped him to the Phillies for someone (I can't remember) and Person actually had a decent season or two. haha

 

I was thinking that's when the Cliff Politte era started, but it turns out it was Spoljaric for Person.

[jaysfan2014]

Why do people still s*** on Happ? He's doing a great job as the 5th starter. Reminds me of Josh Towers days.

 

Except Happ doesn't suck like Josh Towers, and doesn't serve up 88-89 MPH meatballs like Towers did(*cough 2006 cough*)

[Terminator]

Obviously the Mets weren't going to trade Person and his 4.52 ERA straight up for a 27 year old former batting champion coming off a .373 wOBA season. I mean, he only had 18 dingers....AS A FIRST BASEMAN!!!

 

Lol I cannot figure that trade out. At all.

[KingKat]

Lol I cannot figure that trade out. At all.

 

We were all a lot dumber back then. As fans, we thought Olerude wasn't good anymore. It's kind of like some of the crap you still hear about Joey Votto.

[Chappy]

Why do people still s*** on Happ? He's doing a great job as the 5th starter. Reminds me of Josh Towers days.

 

He is a fine #5, but considering all the needs this team will have, I'd rather just give Sanchez a shot and have Nolin, Norris, and a AAA veteran depth signing as insurance. We're gong to have two OF spots to fill (Gose might be one of them or part of a platoon), a glaring hole at 2B or 3B (depending on where Lawrie ends up), need a couple good RP, and probably an upgrade to the rotation (but I doubt that happens).

[HERPDERP]

Except Happ doesn't suck like Josh Towers, and doesn't serve up 88-89 MPH meatballs like Towers did(*cough 2006 cough*)

 

I'm just saying that Happ is a great 5th starter, just like Josh Towers was for a few years.

[Olerud363]

I swear, people who blame Rogers are the worst. We have a top 10 payroll and f***ing morons like this who want to build a track team are f***ing that up.

 

He atleast admits that perhaps they lose because of "decisions we made" and "injureis" The big thing is injuries. But the two go hand in hand (they decided to acquire guys who miss 40 games a year. I think they are kind of getting it... maybe. I think AA acknowledged they need depth to back up these guys.

 

If Bautista, Reyes, Rasmus, EE, Lind and Lawrie average 115 games in 2013 they'll average 115 in 2014, and 115 in 2015. No one will be able to predict exactly what injuries will occur or to who, but you can predict the average number of games played by these 6.

[TheHurl]

Why do people still s*** on Happ? He's doing a great job as the 5th starter. Reminds me of Josh Towers days.

 

He is likely what he's been this year. A true talent low 4.00-4.35 ERA guy that can provide the team with 150 innings of inconsistent pitching. The fact is that it is tough to imagine the team trading either Buehrle or Dickey so if payroll is going to stay south of $150M Happ is the one guy that is potentially replaceable with a league min guy (in house even). I still think they keep him. So much will depend on what happens with the pen though. If Casey isn't signed then I think they will consider Sanchez as the in-house option. If that happens then I think Happ is needed for depth/trade option.

[jaysfan2014]

We were all a lot dumber back then. As fans, we thought Olerude wasn't good anymore. It's kind of like some of the crap you still hear about Joey Votto.

 

At least Olerud isn't owed $225M like Votto and threatening to cripple a franchise like Votto will to the Reds. Terrible, terrible deal.

[HERPDERP]

He is likely what he's been this year. A true talent low 4.00-4.35 ERA guy that can provide the team with 150 innings of inconsistent pitching. The fact is that it is tough to imagine the team trading either Buehrle or Dickey so if payroll is going to stay south of $150M Happ is the one guy that is potentially replaceable with a league min guy (in house even). I still think they keep him. So much will depend on what happens with the pen though. If Casey isn't signed then I think they will consider Sanchez as the in-house option. If that happens then I think Happ is needed for depth/trade option.

 

Happ's fastball velocity has increased with age and he has also increased it's use. It's fair to say that we can't really be comparing Happ today of old.

 

However, I do want to trade him because I think it's opportune to sell while high and I want to give Norris a shot at the rotation next year. I don't think Dickey will be traded. I could see Buehrle going first.