Beginning of the end

[DH12]

Sadly this is the beginning of the end for the Jays this year. Lack of trade action at deadline and injuries are culprits. I have had to readjust my prediction for the Jays they will not have enough for a wild card this year.

[Jonzo]

Ya we saw your exact same post in the GDT, not sure why you needed to make a new one. There's plenty of negative threads you could have posted in.

 

Wild card isn't coming out of the east anyways. I think they can still get hot again. Right now they are cold, while the O's are hot. If it evens out I think we still have a chance.

[CHRIS]

The biggest culprit in my opinion is the lack of moves in the offseason, especially at 2B and Lind platoon partner.

 

AA gambled in the offseason and lost; he thought he could hope for the best case scenario out of 2B, without considering that other areas, like the bullpen, might get worse, IMO.

 

To be honest, at this point, I'd almost rather face Shark than a Brad Mills type guy, because at least in brings Lind and Rasmus back into play offensively.

[HERPDERP]

I haven't heard Mike Wilner's thoughts on this yet. I presume it's something along the lines of "we're only 1 game behind 1st"

[shortstop]

something like 9-18 since home win vs cardinals June 6th...

 

jays definitely need some sort of boost...stating the obvious but traditional lineup of:

 

reyes

Cabrera

bautista

Encarnacion

Lind

Navarro

Lawrie

Rasmus

 

is pretty good but few important guys are banged up - easy to see jays definitely need a right handed bat moving forward via trade to play 2nd/3rd...headley being a switch hitter with solid D is imo the preferable option balanced with cost to acquire...

 

the problem for AA is trading after the all-star break may cost the team a few wins in the meantime...jays need an infusion right now & while AA would prefer to make a trade when the jays are playing well to increase some leverage, things could get even worse as the jays approach the deadline...

[ElNik2013]

The biggest culprit in my opinion is the lack of moves in the offseason, especially at 2B and Lind platoon partner.

 

AA gambled in the offseason and lost; he thought he could hope for the best case scenario out of 2B, without considering that other areas, like the bullpen, might get worse, IMO.

 

To be honest, at this point, I'd almost rather face Shark than a Brad Mills type guy, because at least in brings Lind and Rasmus back into play offensively.

 

 

No doubt, but why try to sign a FA or 2 when you can give up a prospect or 2 to get to pay Martin Prado 20+M over the next 2+ seasons?

[ElNik2013]

something like 9-18 since home win vs cardinals June 6th...

 

jays definitely need some sort of boost...stating the obvious but traditional lineup of:

 

reyes

Cabrera

bautista

Encarnacion

Lind

Navarro

Lawrie

Rasmus

 

is pretty good but few important guys are banged up - easy to see jays definitely need a right handed bat moving forward via trade to play 2nd/3rd...headley being a switch hitter with solid D is imo the preferable option balanced with cost to acquire...

 

the problem for AA is trading after the all-star break may cost the team a few wins in the meantime...jays need an infusion right now & while AA would prefer to make a trade when the jays are playing well to increase some leverage, things could get even worse as the jays approach the deadline...

 

 

You simply cannot count on these 9 guys being healthy at the same time for any significant period of time. They just have too many guys with a checkered injury history and low and behold, history is repeating itself.

[bzapple]

[HERPDERP]

something like 9-18 since home win vs cardinals June 6th...

 

jays definitely need some sort of boost...stating the obvious but traditional lineup of:

 

reyes

Cabrera

bautista

Encarnacion

Lind

Navarro

Lawrie

Rasmus

 

is pretty good but few important guys are banged up - easy to see jays definitely need a right handed bat moving forward via trade to play 2nd/3rd...headley being a switch hitter with solid D is imo the preferable option balanced with cost to acquire...

 

the problem for AA is trading after the all-star break may cost the team a few wins in the meantime...jays need an infusion right now & while AA would prefer to make a trade when the jays are playing well to increase some leverage, things could get even worse as the jays approach the deadline...

 

Edwin is going to be out for at least 15 games, in an extremely pivotal stretch

both Lind and rasmus are black holes against LHP.

Lawrie is gone for another 3 weeks

 

So while that looks good on paper, that line-up isn't happening anytime soon. It'll happen too late.

[shortstop]

I haven't heard Mike Wilner's thoughts on this yet. I presume it's something along the lines of "we're only 1 game behind 1st"

 

lol

 

the problem with that line of Wilner thinking is it ignores reality of what is actually going on - this team is hurt, losing and unable to squeak out 3-4 more wins the last 27 games...and imo, when the tide gets rough, this team hasn't been able to squeak out a few more wins...and really, reading the lineup these days, I can't blame Gibby...

 

The O's were something like 7-14 b/w May 11-31st before really turning it around...jays are something like 9-18 since June 6th win against cardinals...

 

from an O's form, part of a post dated May 27th:

 

"For us, you know, it was looking up with the pitching going on a roll, but the offense never clicked during that span. Now Tillman and Ubaldo are struggling again and it's been tough for us to hold a lead. Fortunately, the offense is a little more consistent lately.

 

Tough to call it. It all hinges on Tillman and Ubaldo, IMO. If those guys are giving us quality starts, we're in business. Especially now that we've figured out the closer.

 

I'd like to see our bullpen be a little bit less in flux. Brach/Guilmet/MacFarland - that whole thing needs to stabilize."

 

 

Without further info, the distinction b/w the O's & Jays rough stretch is consistency (O's) vs. injuries/consistency (jays) but mostly injuries imo in respect of the position players, ergo offense and also, stating the obvious again, the failure of AA to address a full-time 2nd basement in the off-season.

 

Question is will the O's, other than Wieters, remain healthy moving forward? So far, they've mostly avoided the injury bug...

 

The O's also have essentially played 16 position players this year with #16 by games played being Hundley with 17 games. #'s 17-25 have played a total of 28 games. #17 in games played for the O's has only played 4 games. If we exclude pitchers, of the 28 games, only 7 games by other position players (hundley & weeks).

 

The Jays on the other hand have at #16 Diaz with 23 games...and from #17-#22, the jays other position players (excluding pitchers) have played in 67 games.

 

I know the above is not necessary to reach the conclusion the jays have not only had injuries but also the obvious infield issue with a # of minor leaguers filling in...

 

the bright side of this is there is hope - that the O's will have inevitable injuries, that the jays trade for a 2nd/3rd baseman who can stop the revolving door of minor league replacements & the walking injured will be strong after the all-star break...

 

imo, AA needs to get a right handed (or switch) bat from a 2nd/3rd baseman asap...that's the first thing he needs to do imo and quick...

[SAAviour]

I tried to stay optimistic for as long as possible, but my confidence is going down fast.

If we lose EE for more then a month forget about it....AA should be prepared to be sellers. We could be 5-10 games out of first by July 31st. I'm not saying we are sellers, just saying be prepared.

f***in hurts to be a fan of this team!

[HERPDERP]

Yeah I think a lot of these positive peteys is that they look at where we were before and now, completely ignoring where we're headed.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Only 3+ more months until the Raptors are back. That isn't much time to kill. Enjoy the summer and count the days!

[BlueJaysGirl]

Man, the haul we could get for Bautista and Edwin. We could probably even slip Reyes in there.

 

Hey, hypothetical, what if we traded Edwin and Joey Bats? Could we legitimately get top AAA prospects back?

[dineke]

Only 3+ more months until the Raptors are back. That isn't much time to kill. Enjoy the summer and count the days!

 

Yep, at least we have one competent team to cheer for. Things are looking up!

[ElNik2013]

Only 3+ more months until the Raptors are back. That isn't much time to kill. Enjoy the summer and count the days!

 

 

Hopefully, you can start you're basketball forum so you can talk about them there. Good luck to them.

[bluebird]

mike wilner is the biggest clown i ever heard in my life.There is no way he believes the diarrea that come's out of his own mouth.

[leaffie]

Yeah I think a lot of these positive peteys is that they look at where we were before and now, completely ignoring where we're headed.

 

But then those Negative Nellies look at the worst case scenario in every single case.

 

All winter, Jays are done, AA is an idiot. Beeston should be fired, and Gibbons is the worst manager that ever walked this earth. We have no pitching, our offense won't be able to overcome that terrible pitching, and we will be in dead last all year. And if AA doesn't blow this up and sell everyone, I am never watching a game again. Does that about cover it?

 

Then the Jays are in first place, and this is the best game I have ever seen in my life. I am so excited. f***,f***,f***. What a team.

 

So now there have been some really bad injuries, and those nellies are giving up , the ship is sinking.

 

Even with half a team, and that terrible end of the line up, they are hanging in on most games.

 

How about trying a little perspective.

[43211234]

mike wilner is the biggest clown i ever heard in my life.There is no way he believes the diarrea that come's out of his own mouth.

 

@FakeWilner1

[DH12]

Ya we saw your exact same post in the GDT, not sure why you needed to make a new one. There's plenty of negative threads you could have posted in.

 

Wild card isn't coming out of the east anyways. I think they can still get hot again. Right now they are cold, while the O's are hot. If it evens out I think we still have a chance.

 

Not a negative thread it's just reality. There are simply too many holes to fill in trades to make them competitive now, due not to injuries and the already present weak starting pitching and weak bullpen. Difficult to accept but it's reality. In comparison look at Oakland, they will likely win the world series this year because all they had to do was straighten their already decent pitching staff. That has put them over the top. AA likely didn't make a move for pitching because he knows just adressing starting pitching won't be enough this year and would cost them too much

[shortstop]

leaffie, that's a good point...I haven't watched all the games but overall, the jays have hung around in games...it's not for a lack of trying/competing though I do think they could/should have squeezed out 3-4 more wins...but they are desperately trying to win ball games & they just don't have enough in that lineup right now & what they do have is somewhat the walking injured...to even have a hope now, let alone after the all-star break, the jays need a trade or 2 for some bats in that lineup...

 

not recommending AA break the bank on prospects but as flawed as this team is, they've got a real shot to play meaningful baseball in August/September...but not without 1-2 more bats and to end once for and all that crap revolving door in the infield...

[leaffie]

They need a trade definitely, and if it doesn't come, then it is on AA's head and he will probably pay with his job.

[ElNik2013]

leaffie, that's a good point...I haven't watched all the games but overall, the jays have hung around in games...it's not for a lack of trying/competing though I do think they could/should have squeezed out 3-4 more wins...but they are desperately trying to win ball games & they just don't have enough in that lineup right now & what they do have is somewhat the walking injured...to even have a hope now, let alone after the all-star break, the jays need a trade or 2 for some bats in that lineup...

 

not recommending AA break the bank on prospects but as flawed as this team is, they've got a real shot to play meaningful baseball in August/September...but not without 1-2 more bats and to end once for and all that crap revolving door in the infield...

 

 

Of course you'll hang around in games when your pitching staff gives up 5 or fewer runs.

[McD]

Not a negative thread it's just reality. There are simply too many holes to fill in trades to make them competitive now, due not to injuries and the already present weak starting pitching and weak bullpen. Difficult to accept but it's reality. In comparison look at Oakland, they will likely win the world series this year because all they had to do was straighten their already decent pitching staff. That has put them over the top. AA likely didn't make a move for pitching because he knows just adressing starting pitching won't be enough this year and would cost them too much

 

I dont know how you can call this reality. The season has already had many twists and turns and you cannot definitively say we are out of it.

 

Yes it has become more challenging with EE's injury and a few starting pitchers coming off the market but we are 1 game back and the majority on the forum would have jumped at the chance to be in this position.

 

We have been competitive and are in a position to so so again. There is still a long way to go and the 'reality' is that neither yourself nor I can say for sure that we are dead in the water or otherwise at this point.

[sh3156]

They need a trade definitely, and if it doesn't come, then it is on AA's head and he will probably pay with his job.

 

I dont look forward to a rebuild. A rebuild could destroy baseball in this city.

 

Already people in Toronto are making fun of the Jays, next time Jays are leading at the end of June, people just wont believe

[NorthOf49]

The lack of depth on this roster is really showing. Cause for legitimate concern.

[xposbrad]

There are trade chips on this team that could be traded to help strengthen this club long term. I know AA had his whole plan and his whole window, but it's time to reevaluate things. Trade JB for a top 20 prospect and focus on a rebuild with 4-5 stud YOUNG players as your core. You need to know when to buy, but you damn sure need to know when to sell. I know making certain trades is going to be a tough pill to swallow for people who like using stats and projections to determine if we'll make the playoffs but it's necessary.

 

If not this team will be hovering around .500 with a 130m+ payroll for quite a while until something is done. Always on the cusp, but never actually quite there just because the payroll allows this team to not suck entirely.

[Art Vandelay]

I dont look forward to a rebuild. A rebuild could destroy baseball in this city.

 

Already people in Toronto are making fun of the Jays, next time Jays are leading at the end of June, people just wont believe

 

I don't like the idea of having to rebuild, but if the team is going to be losing anyway, you might as well do it with a younger team with potential to get better. Also, grass in the dome will be something to look forward to, assuming they can get it done.

[leaffie]

And those same chips will be there to sell in the off season, if this season continues to go sideways

[HERPDERP]

If we are 10 games out of it a week before the deadline, you guys comfortable selling the team?