Jordan Baker is a fucking joke

[TwistedLogic]

 

I know there was a thread made after the game about this, but I've purposely made this one because I want this thread to show up in search engines anytime anyone searches "Jordan Baker".

 

Jordan Baker, as everyone here frustratingly knows, was the umpire that called the Toronto @ New York game today (June 17, 2014). He's also the disrespectful, asinine douchebag that was known during his minor league umpiring career for doing

this

.

 

The reason I'm making this thread is not

just

to dump more dirty, steaming s*** on Baker (that's largely a part of it) but because I want to prove what Jays fans already know; that our outrage today wasn't unwarranted or biased. That it was justified beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

And here's what I mean; the following graphics are the strike zone maps (called by Jordan Baker) from today's game between the Jays and the Yankees (courtesy of

Brooks Baseball

):

 

http://i.gyazo.com/aff0020725fe6a66e687e61e6382c178.png

 

http://i.gyazo.com/57eba41c8002444befcc247d4a300be0.png

 

 

The view of the zone is from the umpire/batter's perspective, so you're looking at how the umpire saw the zone. The points plotted, however, represent the pitching team. In other words, a red square was called a strike for a Yankees pitcher, and a red triangle was called a strike for a Blue Jays pitcher.

 

As you can

clearly

see, the Blue Jays got

two

total called strikes outside of

Baker's

zone all game long (one borderline pitch outside against a left-handed batter, and one a few inches inside against a righty). In comparison, the Yankees, got

fourteen

pitches called for strikes outside of the zone. Nine of those were down below the zone against left-handed hitters, and one pitch (against a righty) was literally plotted a full foot beneath the strike zone.

 

Whatever the reason was behind this absolute abomination of a baseball game, whether the umpire was biased, paid off, drunk, unable to pick up a certain pitcher's pitches, or just downright blind as a f***ing bat, something needs to be done about this. Because right now, the "human element" is nothing but a complete disgrace that is making a f***ing mockery of the sport.

Edited June 18, 2014 by TwistedLogic

[NLJays]

I thought the strikezone by Jerry Layne against the O's was even worse.

[glory]

Yeah I'm not big on umpire bashing. Tanaka getting more respect than Stroman is to be expected, much like Buehrle usually gets a bigger zone when he pitches. That's not to excuse Gose's AB to end the game (that should have been a walk), but usually umpires are just incompetent in general, which is to be expected when we have the benefit of pitch trackers and they are going off human judgment and bias.

 

The Jays had an amazing May and the umpires were just as bad. That's baseball, until they start using robots (which I actually endorse).

[Angrioter]

Baker, eres un desgraciado!!

[Mikeleelop]

Yeah I'm not big on umpire bashing. Tanaka getting more respect than Stroman is to be expected, much like Buehrle usually gets a bigger zone when he pitches. That's not to excuse Gose's AB to end the game (that should have been a walk), but usually umpires are just incompetent in general, which is to be expected when we have the benefit of pitch trackers and they are going off human judgment and bias.

 

The Jays had an amazing May and the umpires were just as bad. That's baseball, until they start using robots (which I actually endorse).

 

unfortunately, this is what the Jays have consistently gotten in New York. It leads to a 3 win 25 loss record in their last 28 games in New York

[eastcoastjaysfan]

What this shows is that the Jays' pitchers couldn't adjust to a strike zone a whole 2 inches lower than normal, and their framing sucks, comparatively speaking.

 

Whine about the pitching and catching, not the umpiring.

 

Losers and crybabies whine about umps.

 

You both have good points. Ump was trash but I think we can now all agree that Navarro kills this team defensively.

 

His bat doesn't make up for his poor framing/inability to block a pitch. He's not really DFA material.. but he should be starting 2-3 times a week max.

[z3r0s]

Wow, McCann is a bitch'n framer

[jays4life19]

You both have good points. Ump was trash but I think we can now all agree that Navarro kills this team defensively.

 

His bat doesn't make up for his poor framing/inability to block a pitch. He's not really DFA material.. but he should be starting 2-3 times a week max.

 

His bat is pretty bad too. He's been replacement level for us this year.

[The Cats Ass]

I vote we burn his house down.

 

And what kind of **** spits all that gum in LF where players play. I hope a player steps in a piece of this guy's gum and then proceeds to give him a roundhouse kick.

[fireballW]

What this shows is that the Jays' pitchers couldn't adjust to a strike zone a whole 2 inches lower than normal, and their framing sucks, comparatively speaking.

 

Whine about the pitching and catching, not the umpiring.

 

Losers and crybabies whine about umps.

 

I have it on good authority (RIP Kirksaw) that umpires train specifically on watching the ball and making sure they are not influenced by the catcher. Pitch framing is a skill that shouldn't exist and shouldn't matter if the umpires were doing their jobs as trained. Good umpires largely negate pitch framing, while terrible ones, like Baker, turn it into a stat that MLB talent evaluators can't ignore.

 

An umpires job is to call the strike zone and if they aren't, for whatever reason, it's on them. Baker did a terrible job at what he was trained to do and it impacted the game. Arguing this and calling him out is not the same as saying our team should not try to improve our ability to exploit the crappy umpires of the league.

[Nox]

Good umpires largely negate pitch framing, while terrible ones, like Baker, turn it into a stat that MLB talent evaluators can't ignore.

 

Completely untrue statement. 0/10

[ElNik2013]

I'd love to see a video montage of some of the low and low and away strike calls by this guy. He even called a couple of clear strikes balls for the Jays.

 

He was horrible, but let's face it, this offense has only scored as many as 5 runs twice in their last 11 games.

 

They're wasting possible wins with their putrid offense. Cabrera has sucked for over a month now, good thing they didn't throw money at him like some suggested at the time.

[ElNik2013]

We also know certain posters have returned in full force since the team started to slide a bit, gotta love it!

[orpheus]

One of the worst strike zones I have ever seen, seemed to me it was way worse with the Jays though, or maybe that is my Jays bias talking.

[Atothe]

Of course they are trained that way. It will still influence them to some degree. It's the nature of visual recognition and moving objects.

 

But, ignoring the "low" strike, which in most cases was actually a by-the-book-strike, or at least borderline enough not to bitch about, the ump was not very bad at all. More at fault was the Jays' pitchers for not recognizing the low strike was being called and adjusting, or recognizing that it was being called and not being able to locate.

 

Instead, there's 50 pages of game thread dedicated to over-the-top, wishing death upon the ump type nonsense, and a stand-alone thread to hammer home the point, in case the prior 50 pages didn't register with posters. When, at best, it had a minute effect on the game. An ump really blows a non-reviewable call in a tight game, in a high leverage situation? Blast him. A couple arguable ball and strike calls don't go the way you want them to, or his strike zone is an inch or two shifted in one direction. Play on. And stop crying like little babies.

 

Hello Mr.Contrarian

[fireballW]

Completely untrue statement. 0/10

 

Nah, it's not. But I can look forward to some example with about a thousand uncontrolled variables to try and prove something.

 

*"Good" umpires by definition call more correct strikes than "bad" umpires

 

*More bad strike calls come when catchers with good pitch framing numbers are catching

 

The rest kind of writes itself.

[Nox]

*"Good" umpires by definition call more correct strikes than "bad" umpires

 

Well sure but that's not an equivalent statement to what you said before. No umpire in the MLB is immune to framing effects.

 

Obviously umpires *try* not to be influenced by the catcher but that's not too relevant. The data show that they are. Period.

 

And for the most part, it's not their fault. They're being asked to do something that's literally a physical impossibility for a human being - track 100% of a 95 mph baseball with their eyes. We simply are not equipped to do this. Our eyes sample the path and make inferences. Usually these inferences are pretty good but things like catchers framing the end location add difficulty to that interpretive process.

 

I do agree with what you said before - "framing is a skill that shouldn't exist". It's a pretty artificial thing that doesn't add anything to the game. I never find myself in awe or entertained by someone's elite framing skills, even when I know that I'm watching them.

 

When the roboumps come, that will be the end of the Jose Molinas of the world.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Well sure but that's not an equivalent statement to what you said before. No umpire in the MLB is immune to framing effects.

 

Obviously umpires *try* not to be influenced by the catcher but that's not too relevant. The data show that they are. Period.

 

And for the most part, it's not their fault. They're being asked to do something that's literally a physical impossibility for a human being - track 100% of a 95 mph baseball with their eyes. We simply are not equipped to do this. Our eyes sample the path and make inferences. Usually these inferences are pretty good but things like catchers framing the end location add difficulty to that interpretive process.

 

I do agree with what you said before - "framing is a skill that shouldn't exist". It's a pretty artificial thing that doesn't add anything to the game. I never find myself in awe or entertained by someone's elite framing skills, even when I know that I'm watching them.

 

When the roboumps come, that will be the end of the Jose Molinas of the world.

 

How far do you think Molina will fall this year? -3 WAR? -4 WAR?

 

How low can he go!

[Makdaddy]

Its even more egregious when you look at those first three key innings

 

[NorthOf49]

How far do you think Molina will fall this year? -3 WAR? -4 WAR?

 

How low can he go!

He's exactly replacement level when you add in the framing -- 10.9 runs saved by framing and a -1.1 fWAR.

 

His bat's probably not this bad either (-9 wRC+) going forward. So he's a good bet to end the year above replacement.

[billjc33]

The umping was pretty bad all game but that last Gose at bat to end the game was brutal. He should have been walked on 4 pitches and not one of them could even be considered borderline. Having one of the fastest baserunners in the game and tying run at 1st would have been nice, but Baker wanted to go back to his hotel room and collect his payoff.

[GD]

He's exactly replacement level when you add in the framing -- 10.9 runs saved by framing and a -1.1 fWAR.

 

His bat's probably not this bad either (-9 wRC+) going forward. So he's a good bet to end the year above replacement.

 

Where are you getting up to date framing? Carruth?

[BarkatToronto]

Guys whats the point of complaining about this. IT will just make us feel bad

 

Honestly there is nothing we can do. Maybe he had some money on Tanaka

[eastcoastjaysfan]

He's exactly replacement level when you add in the framing -- 10.9 runs saved by framing and a -1.1 fWAR.

 

His bat's probably not this bad either (-9 wRC+) going forward. So he's a good bet to end the year above replacement.

 

A .153 wOBA is unplayable. Don't care how good he is at stealing the occasional strike for the pitcher.

 

He's a hot mess.

[NorthOf49]

Where are you getting up to date framing? Carruth?

Where else but BP! http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667331

 

A .153 wOBA is unplayable. Don't care how good he is at stealing the occasional strike for the pitcher.

 

He's a hot mess.

It's replacement level, sure. If he can just get to a .250 wOBA he'll be pretty valuable though. And that's possible.

[Statman]

Wow, McCann is a bitch'n framer

 

Nah, nothing to do with framing. Strike zone was shifted down for whatever reason from the 1st inning on. On the opposite spectrum of the strike zone he was calling the high strike a ball. Teams pick up on this and you don't attack that area anymore. This consistently incompetent ump played right into Tanakas strength and he just continued to pepper down in that zone. Nothing the Jays can do about it. I give the jays credit though, usually you see guys like Bautista going berzerk but the team as a whole remained cool. I like where the Jays mental approach is right now.

[pickoff22]

Nah, nothing to do with framing. Strike zone was shifted down for whatever reason from the 1st inning on. On the opposite spectrum of the strike zone he was calling the high strike a ball. Teams pick up on this and you don't attack that area anymore. This consistently incompetent ump played right into Tanakas strength and he just continued to pepper down in that zone. Nothing the Jays can do about it. I give the jays credit though, usually you see guys like Bautista going berzerk but the team as a whole remained cool. I like where the Jays mental approach is right now.

 

I was surprised they weren't reacting more. You even saw Kawasaki surprised once and hold back from arguing. Seitzer mentioned it right away in his in-game interview though

[z3r0s]

Nah, nothing to do with framing. Strike zone was shifted down for whatever reason from the 1st inning on. On the opposite spectrum of the strike zone he was calling the high strike a ball. Teams pick up on this and you don't attack that area anymore. This consistently incompetent ump played right into Tanakas strength and he just continued to pepper down in that zone. Nothing the Jays can do about it. I give the jays credit though, usually you see guys like Bautista going berzerk but the team as a whole remained cool. I like where the Jays mental approach is right now.

 

notice the ' '

 

Jokes man, jokes.

[TwistedLogic]

When the roboumps come, that will be the end of the Jose Molinas of the world.

 

Probably my biggest and most irrational baseball-related dream. Not only because of the fact that it's a hundred years overdue, and that a legitimate strike zone would be so good for the game, but because if computers started recording balls and strikes, pitcher's wouldn't be able to cheat anymore. It would very much require pitching to undergo a significant evolution in order the survive. And I believe that until that transformation happened, the game would be dominated by an onslaught of offense that it may have only ever seen in the steroid glory years.

[GD]

Yer dumn. BP's are almost perfect.

 

I didn't know BP was updating theirs lol. I haven't really been paying attention to much framing stuff.