AA: Jays need to upgrade at the 5th starter and 2B spot

[Convo]

Remember when Halladay was here? Boy those Jays teams were dominant with a true ace anchoring the rotation.

 

Total your 5 starters performance and divide by 5, whatever that number is needs to be better than the same equated number from the other teams 5 starters. Ace means very little in the regular season.

[admin]

I said that he had that one cy young year, I didn't say that he had one good year. He was coming into a much tougher division, and to a hitter friendly park, so, everyone was expecting a bit of a drop-off, and last year, he wasn't that bad in the second half, but two years later, now he's almost 40, and there's no way he can repeat what he did three or four years ago in the NL, and a different park. I choose to look at today, and right now, I'm not even sure what he is, and neither is any fan, we don't know what we're getting inning to inning and pitch to pitch, this season can go downhill real fast, and I'm not the type to say I told you so.

 

You implied it was only one good year by following up and saying only a fool would think he'd repeat those numbers. The Ks were up the cy young year, but other than that his performance wasn't far off.

Sure there would be a drop off, and one of my arguements were how other knuckballers fell off at his current age. But I don't anyone expected him to go from a sub3 ERA over three years to how ridiculous it is now.

[The_DH]

Why?

 

Agree, Uggla is overpaid and no bat or defense left in the tank.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yes the guy that pitched 233 innings of almost 9k/9 ball and AA told everyone, we believe he'll get better...was brought in to put up #4 numbers

 

Okay, he was brought in to be a #1, but no one in their right mind should've thought this emotionally fragile, trick pitcher, who had a couple nice seasons nearing 40 years old is gonna be this dominant force for years to come.

 

Even Syndergaard & d'Arnaud a stupid return for Dickey wouldn't have been even close to enough to land a #1 or true ace. It was all ridiculousness that most fans and for whatever reason the Jays FO bought into thinking Dickey was this dominant pitcher.

[skinny123]

You implied it was only one good year by following up and saying only a fool would think he'd repeat those numbers. The Ks were up the cy young year, but other than that his performance wasn't far off.

Sure there would be a drop off, and one of my arguements were how other knuckballers fell off at his current age. But I don't anyone expected him to go from a sub3 ERA over three years to how ridiculous it is now.

 

When it comes to knuckleballers, there's no guarantee's, no, I didn't think the numbers would be where they are now, but, at the same time, I didn't expect that he would just continue to be dominant year after year, truth is, there's a small pocket of time to take advantage of dickey's talent, and it's dwindling by the month.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Dickey had that cy young year, but only a fool would think that he would repeat those numbers, anyone with proper baseball accumen would know the reality of coming down to earth. Fact is, nobody know's how dickey will perform year to year, start to start, pitch to pitch, not even dickey. To think that you were signing a roger clemens in his prime, or another doc, is foolish on the fan's part, or AA, or just fans drinking the kook aid. At this point, you can only pray that he's a #4, and especially in his decline, but we can all watch the career of syndergaard explode well after mr.dickey is retired.

 

Exactly.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Total your 5 starters performance and divide by 5, whatever that number is needs to be better than the same equated number from the other teams 5 starters. Ace means very little in the regular season.

 

I still don't understand the emotional attachment/relationships with the team & fans GM's place on players and being unwilling to trade them.

 

OMG, we can't trade this guy, he's the face of the franchise. Give it a few weeks and the tens of thousands of tears on the idiots faces that pass through the turnstiles will be dry and memories faded on missing Bautista in RF or at the plate.

[Convo]

What's the better group of players?

 

A)

Player 1: OPS .925

Player 2: OPS .800

Player 3: OPS .800

 

-OR-

 

Player 1: OPS .850

Player 2: OPS .850

Player 3: OPS .850

[GeorgiaPeach]

I would have to disagree. I don't think anyone would think he wouldn't continue to be an ace. There were no signs pointing to it other than age which shouldn't have been that much of a factor considering how knuckles age. Certainly reasonable to believe he'd continue to be a force.

 

I never considered him a true ace. Ace to me involves durability, Dickey had 3 years to that point in his career of durability and being a quality pitcher. And two of the years prior to his CY I'd say were a #2 or a stretch a #1. His CY year was his only true ace year that I'm seeing.

 

Syndergaard and d'Arnaud was obviously enough for an ace, since that's what Dickey was and it was widely considered an overpay. I don't get your stance here.

 

Syndergaard and d'Arnaud wouldn't have topped the package the Pads got for Latos. And Latos wasn't an ace at the time. But I'd definitely take Latos over Dickey any day of the week as a pitcher.

 

Let's face it, everyone got enamoured with the trophy Dickey was lugging around.

[skinny123]

Given dickey's age, there was a reasonable expectation for a drop-off, just a matter of when, accelerated by the fact he's coming to the real tough AL east, and pitching at the rogers centre(his worst nightmare). True, same rules don't apply to knucklers when it comes to the norms of the twilight and decline in a pitchers career, but roll the dice.

[GeorgiaPeach]

3 excellent years and one where he was arguably the best pitcher in the league doesn't do it for you?

 

Nope.

 

Just like when everyone was calling Bautista a superstar after his first monster year. Even in hindsight I think fans put that extra notch on a guy. They call stars, superstars, very good players stars.

 

At the time Dickey was acquired I would've tabbed him a #1 at best, but more realistically a very good #2 with an unknown future based on age and his goofy medical history.

[skinny123]

What's the better group of players?

 

A)

Player 1: OPS .925

Player 2: OPS .800

Player 3: OPS .800

 

-OR-

 

Player 1: OPS .850

Player 2: OPS .850

Player 3: OPS .850

 

I would say B

[GeorgiaPeach]

What's the better group of players?

 

A)

Player 1: OPS .925

Player 2: OPS .800

Player 3: OPS .800

 

-OR-

 

Player 1: OPS .850

Player 2: OPS .850

Player 3: OPS .850

 

depends what positions they play.

[Convo]

depends what positions they play.

 

Don't be a tight ass, it's an isolated question.

[Convo]

I would say B

 

Yeah, the problem is most GM's go the course of Group A because they want that super-star on their team - it ends up costing them more. Angels are an example of "A", Oakland is more an example of "B". Of course you could argue "A" may sell more tickets in the short-term, but it won't win you more games.

[Convo]

The ones with the better wRC+

 

Bah!

[skinny123]

Problem with having the all-star, is that you rely on them to carry the team, when they get hurt, or they're in a slump, the team will go into a downward spiral.

[Convo]

B because the average OPS is better lol.

 

Yes, that's really my point in all this.

[Convo]

Don't take it personally, I just hate OPS.

 

I don't as long as you realize it was an isolated question used an example, the stat that I used is irrelevant.

[TheHurl]

Dickey had that cy young year, but only a fool would think that he would repeat those numbers,

 

Meet your front office

[GeorgiaPeach]

Don't be a tight ass, it's an isolated question.

 

If Option A had the 925 guy as a 1B and the other 800 guys as OF'ers

 

& B had a SS, 2B & 3B as the 850's guys

 

I'd definitely take Option B

 

Age would also factor into the players values and how I would prefer an option.

[Convo]

I'm thinking other people don't realize that the two choices don't add up and they're just thinking you're asking about distribution.

 

Yeah.

[Convo]

If Option A had the 925 guy as a 1B and the other 800 guys as OF'ers

 

& B had a SS, 2B & 3B as the 850's guys

 

I'd definitely take Option B

 

Age would also factor into the players values and how I would prefer an option.

 

Isolated question. FU.

[skinny123]

Meet your front office

 

Serious question, do you really think AA is a smart GM? I think he's done some real bad trades, he traded doc, the jays best all-time pitcher, and as of today, they have nothing to show for it, no return at all. He traded napoli away for francisco after four days, he traded aviles and gomes for esmil rogerscentre(hitter friendly).

[Convo]

You're forgetting important things like defence and base running if you're going to gripe about his question.

 

We're not looking at anything else, it's an isolated question, we're assuming all other factors are equal. Please for the love of god stop.

[Convo]

Almost nobody here thinks AA is a smart GM.

 

Fantastic salesman though. I would definitely hire him if I owned a tire shop.

[skinny123]

I remember AA in an interview describing how much of an amazing arm jo jo reyes had, and how lucky they were to be getting such a power arm.

[Convo]

I remember AA in an interview describing how much of an amazing arm jo jo reyes had, and how lucky they were to be getting such a power arm.

 

Sales pitch.

[John_Havok]

Almost nobody here thinks AA is a smart GM.

 

Not anymore. He started the rebuilding process very well. Then either was pressured to, or decided on his own to try and take a what amounts to a very high risk shortcut, went full derp in trades, targeted an aging trick pitcher as the anchor of the rotation, while simultaneously focusing on almost nothing else but the bullpen.

 

It was the weirdest 180 in GM direction ever

[skinny123]

Sales pitch.

 

He has that down pat, he sure knows how to sugarcoat, but it's getting old.