Tanaka to Yankees, 7yrs/$155MM

[eastcoastjaysfan]

"Everyone has to admit there has never been a better window to try and compete"

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=88174

 

You're a joke!

 

Rofl

 

Checkmate

[Boxcar]

At the end of the day, we made an offer that we felt was fair value for the player ($20 and a book of McDonalds coupons) and it just didn't work out. Fortunately, we have many other balls in the air and dialogue with several other GMs so that we could possibly overpay for a mediocre pitcher out of desperation via trade.

[Fearthedoc]

McCann

Ellsbury

Beltran

Tanaka

 

$353 million spent on four players alone this offseason.

 

f*** off New York.

[z3r0s]

Only one I'd be willing to give the money too is McCann.

 

this.

 

I like Tanaka, I like Ellsbury, heck I even like Beltran... but not at those figures. Not enough potential value vs the potential risk for my liking.

[flafson]

So much for my theory about the West coast...

[xposbrad]

Yankees still have a terrible infield.

 

yet they will still finish ahead of the blue jays and most likely make the playoffs

[connorp]

Ivan Nova will probably be better than any pitcher on the Jays' staff, and he's clearly New York's number four.

 

Yeah I thought so too but didn't want to get into Nova debate..lol

[xposbrad]

I would bet against that.

 

You do realize, the Blue Jays, have not finished ahead of the yankees in 20 god damn YEARS!!!!! lol

That will not change this year. 2 decades, there are some posters on this forum who aren't even that age.

[Dylan]

Wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees sign another pitcher and drew... lol

[G-Snarls]

 

http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/hal1.jpg?w=720&h=480&crop=1

 

Hal Steinbrenner decided winning games trumped saving money, and authorized his baseball people to forget the Yankees’ $189 million goal for the 2014 season and spend almost that much to land Masahiro Tanaka.

 

“I have been saying for well over a year now that it makes sense to meet [the $189 million threshold], but not at the expense of a championship-caliber team,” Steinbrenner told The Post by phone. “I felt we needed another starter. We were not where we needed to be, in my opinion. So this should not be a surprise because [Tanaka] was the best free-agent pitcher available. He is one of the greatest players Japan has ever produced. He is tough. He has thrived under pressure. He will fit in well to New York.”

 

The Yankees found out shortly after midnight as Tuesday turned to Wednesday that they had won the Tanaka sweepstakes with a winning bid of seven years at $155 million plus the $20 million posting fee that will go to Tanaka’s previous team in Japan, the Rakuten Golden Eagles.

Edited January 22, 2014 by G-Snarls

[Frenchsoup]

Yankees now have $143.4M guaranteed to these guys in 2015

Mark Teixeira (34)

ARod (39)

CC Sabathia (34)

Tanaka (26)

Ellsbury (31)

Beltran (37)

McCann (30)

 

im actually really happy they didn't get under the 189 and there just getting older and older

[8D]

How many teams out there can willingly gamble a potential $175MM on a player who has never pitched in prosessional baseball in North America, let alone in the MLB.

Just tossing around cash like it's nothing.

Sometimes taking huge risks pays off.

[Anemic0ffense]

I mean after digesting this, the Yankees aren't that much better than they were last year. Closers are overrated, but not having the presence of Rivera in the 9th inning will hurt that team. I think the Yankees have a strong possibility to be this years Blue Jays version 2013. Tanaka is an unknown, but we do know he's NOT Darvish.

[Sammy225]

They needed to sign a pitcher because I think their only chance is by winning low scoring games. I think there offence is probably one of the bottom 2 in the division. If their rotation gets hit by the injury bug they could be in trouble.

[Abomination]

They have a lot of salary committed, but that's the cost of success; 21 consecutive 0.500+ seasons, 14 division titles in that time, 5 100+ win seasons, 7 AL pennants, and 5 WS championsips. For as long as I can remember people have been citing their big contracts as a reason why they're about to struggle, but it never actually happens because losing isn't acceptable to them and they spend money on the best players in the game. Much respect for that org.

 

I'm going to be scared if you change your avatar to a Yankee logo...

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Dave Winfield, Jack Morris, Paul Molitar, Roger Clemens, Rickey Henderson, Frank Thomas

 

Never ??? Already happened. Jays history didn't start in year 2000. You may think you know what the future will bring but when you get older you'll know things can change on a dime.

 

Newsflash: it's not 1993 anymore. We're going on 21 years of no playoffs. We have an expensive last-place team, a gutted farm system, an incompetent front office, and a franchise that has become irrelevant. What big-name free agent in their right mind would ever want to play for the current Blue Jays?

 

If we ever want to get another Winfield, Molitor, Clemens, etc., we need to rebuild from the ground up. Bring in competent baseball guys, patiently build through the farm, and put forth the effort needed to repair our reputation and make our franchise an attractive destination again. No more panic trades, no more overpaying for mediocrity, no more bad asset management. Right now, we are the Knicks of baseball when we need to be the Spurs.

[TheHurl]

They have a lot of salary committed, but that's the cost of success; 21 consecutive 0.500+ seasons, 14 division titles in that time, 5 100+ win seasons, 7 AL pennants, and 5 WS championsips. For as long as I can remember people have been citing their big contracts as a reason why they're about to struggle, but it never actually happens because losing isn't acceptable to them and they spend money on the best players in the game. Much respect for that org.

 

I agree somewhat...but the formula that worked in New York isn't exactly in place anymore. They aren't developing the talent these days...so their non-star spots are being filled by aging replacement level players rather than some controlable upside guys (not to mention that many of their aging players aren't performing as well anymore). They have to get back to back to buy your hitters and develop your pitchers. I like this move for the Yankees from a non-financial stand point but eventually you figure they will have to stop covering up holes with mounds of money

[KingKat]

I agree somewhat...but the formula that worked in New York isn't exactly in place anymore. They aren't developing the talent these days...so their non-star spots are being filled by aging replacement level players rather than some controlable upside guys (not to mention that many of their aging players aren't performing as well anymore). They have to get back to back to buy your hitters and develop your pitchers. I like this move for the Yankees from a non-financial stand point but eventually you figure they will have to stop covering up holes with mounds of money

 

They are always going to be the first pick for veteran players trying to rebound. Some of them will provide good value and some of them will bust but even the ones that bust have an uncanny habit of providing good value initially. It's not textbook roster development but it can continue to work for them.

[KingKat]

And if I'm Yu Darvish I'm really pissed off right now. Darvish is far better and this guy is making almost 3 times as much. Are you kidding me right now.

 

I think this illustrates why the old system was unfair to the player. I would think Darvish would support the change even if he didn't benifit personally.

[Angrioter]

LottOnBaseball

#BlueJays bid on Tanaka, but dropped out of talks when contract length went beyond five years, source says.

Opt-out clause was also problem for #BlueJays: source

 

AndrewStoeten 2m

Jays want it both ways. We have all the resources we could ever need, but we also have a policy that prevents us from ever using them.

[Olerud363]

Newsflash: it's not 1993 anymore. We're going on 21 years of no playoffs. We have an expensive last-place team, a gutted farm system, an incompetent front office, and a franchise that has become irrelevant. What big-name free agent in their right mind would ever want to play for the current Blue Jays?

 

If we ever want to get another Winfield, Molitor, Clemens, etc., we need to rebuild from the ground up. Bring in competent baseball guys, patiently build through the farm, and put forth the effort needed to repair our reputation and make our franchise an attractive destination again. No more panic trades, no more overpaying for mediocrity, no more bad asset management. Right now, we are the Knicks of baseball when we need to be the Spurs.

 

We are talking Tanaka but the discussion seems to have devolved into the age old "what is the problem with this franchise?" discussion.

 

I have no idea what good firing AA will do. People know how I feel about this. I've annoyed people enough so I won't mention the "two bit accountant"'s name but if you read "Full Count" by Jeff Blair it's very interesting.

 

Blair reminds us that Peter Hardy was president in the 80s and won baseball executive of the 80s. Peter Hardy was a visionary who built the team along with Gillick. Peter Hardy built from the ground up. Peter Hardy.

 

The "two bit accountant" only gained control in very late 1989. When it was allready built. He saw a few trades (Joe Carter!!! Wow RBIs!! Jack Morris!!! Brilliant!! Wins!!) but his "two bit accountant" mind never processed that the true strength was the incredible base of young players. Since there is a multi-year lag between cause and effect the "two bit accountant" really can't take credit for any Blue Jay team... oh until about 1994.

 

Since 1994 the "two bit accountant" is responsible for every season. Blair's book mentions that even while in the commisioners office the "two bit accoutant" was buddie's with Phil Lind, and had huge say in the direction and even sale of the team.

[KingKat]

LottOnBaseball

#BlueJays bid on Tanaka, but dropped out of talks when contract length went beyond five years, source says.

Opt-out clause was also problem for #BlueJays: source

 

AndrewStoeten 2m

Jays want it both ways. We have all the resources we could ever need, but we also have a policy that prevents us from ever using them.

 

Ugh. I'd prefer to believe the Jays have no money than to believe they have been squireling away money on an all or nothing bid for a free agent pitcher. They'll end up with nothing.

[TwistedLogic]

Think this puts the Yanks at #1 in the div imo. They needed an ace and they got him, and most people believe Tanaka is just that. They might have a slight infield weakness but every team has a weakness, but overall I think they just locked in first.

 

Like the Jays moves last year locked them as #1 in the division?

 

I would probably still take the Rays and Red Sox over the Yankees.

 

With Infante, Baker and Garza, I would have taken the Jays over this current Yankees team as well, though that of course is all smoke now.

[Angrioter]

AndrewStoeten

Jays insulate themselves from tough questions with pseudo-polices designed to make it look like they miss out for reasons other than money.

[z3r0s]

LottOnBaseball

#BlueJays bid on Tanaka, but dropped out of talks when contract length went beyond five years, source says.

Opt-out clause was also problem for #BlueJays: source

 

AndrewStoeten 2m

Jays want it both ways. We have all the resources we could ever need, but we also have a policy that prevents us from ever using them.

 

How the f*** can you be worried about the contract length AND not want an opt out claus? The opt out is only used if the pitcher is playing well AND reduces the overall contract to less than 5 years.

[TwistedLogic]

LottOnBaseball

#BlueJays bid on Tanaka, but dropped out of talks when contract length went beyond five years, source says.

Opt-out clause was also problem for #BlueJays: source

 

Good. An opt-out clause on this contract is just f***ing absurd. There's absolutely no upside to this deal. If everything breaks right, you're paying the guy like a bonafide ace for the next few years and then he either leaves or gets a raise at age 29 (an age at which guys will be commanding contracts upwards of 200M by then), and if he flops, he refuses to opt-out, and you're f***ed for seven years with a guy that is disgustingly overpaid and holds a full no-trade clause.

[KingKat]

Good. An opt-out clause on this contract is just f***ing absurd. There's absolutely no upside to this deal. If everything breaks right, you're paying the guy like a bonafide ace for the next few years and then he either leaves or gets a raise at age 29 (an age at which guys will be commanding contracts upwards of 200M by then), and if he flops, he refuses to opt-out, and you're f***ed for seven years with a guy that is disgustingly overpaid and holds a full no-trade clause.

 

It's only a loss for the team if the player doesn't exercises the opt-out. If he exercises it that's a win for both sides. It probably means you got good value on the front end and are spared the back end. Every team should want that.

[TwistedLogic]

This makes me wonder, what is the policy in the MLB on cash-for-player trades? I know smaller players are often traded for "cash considerations", but would assume a bigger deal of straight cash wouldn't be approved by the commissioner.

 

If it were ever allowed, would a team like the Yankees be able to acquire a player like Jose Fernandez off the Marlins for something like 150M cash?

[Terminator]

I agree somewhat...but the formula that worked in New York isn't exactly in place anymore. They aren't developing the talent these days...so their non-star spots are being filled by aging replacement level players rather than some controlable upside guys (not to mention that many of their aging players aren't performing as well anymore). They have to get back to back to buy your hitters and develop your pitchers. I like this move for the Yankees from a non-financial stand point but eventually you figure they will have to stop covering up holes with mounds of money

 

To add, they are coming off of a 3rd place finish. They could be in the midst of suffering the consequences of their past actions right now and we just don't realize it because it's year one.

[TwistedLogic]

It's only a loss for the team if the player doesn't exercises the opt-out. If he exercises it that's a win for both sides. It probably means you got good value on the front end and are spared the back end. Every team should want that.

 

Not on a 7 year deal for a 25 year old. If he was good enough to earn that kind of money though his age 29 season, chances are high that he would continue to be of similar value for the next three years. The risk of the "back-end of a contract" comes into play on long term contracts signed by typical free agents, who hit the market between the age of 29 to 32 (which is where Tanaka would opt-out). Knowing the Yankees, if Tanaka is good enough that he does opt out, they will very likely retain him (similar to the Sabathia situation). In that case, they will have paid him market value from his age 25 to 29 seasons, and then again from his age 29 to 33 seasons, and still get stuck with the actual s*** back-end years, which now instead of 29-32 will likely be his age 35-37 seasons.

 

This whole thing is basically like having an elite prospect, but paying him ridiculous money from the day he signed, rather than getting the league min years, cheap arb years, and then having to make that commitment after he proved himself.