Dan Shaughnessy and BBWAA are a joke.

[Dick_Pole]

Stupid motherf***er. A massive thank you to Jason Collette for crucifying this f***ing dickpole:

 

 

Don't lump me in with this f***er.

[Dick_Pole]

Mussina 3.68 ERA, 3.57 FIP, 3.69 xFIP

K Brown 3.28 ERA, 3.33 FIP, 3.57 xFIP

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=642&position=P&page=9&players=837

 

Interesting. Now you guys should do a David Wells vs Jack Morris comparison and figure out why Wells couldn't even meet minimum qualifications to stay on the ballot.

[Olerud363]

Biggio not hallworthy because he only got 200 hits once!!!!

 

Biggio was top ten in times on base 9 times, top three 5 times.

 

In 1997 he had "only" 191 hits. But 84 walks, 34 hit by pitch, and was on base over 300 times leading the league in that.

 

In 1997 he grounded into 0 double plays. So that is actually 15 or 20 extra times on base combared to the average player (over 700 plate appearances) who wouldn't of beat out the double plays.

 

His career WAR is very similiar to Alomar's. His peak is arguably better (~10 WAR in 97, average of 6 or 7 from 95-99).

[TheHurl]

biggio not hallworthy because he only got 200 hits once!!!!

 

Biggio was top ten in times on base 9 times, top three 5 times.

 

In 1997 he had "only" 191 hits. But 84 walks, 34 hit by pitch, and was on base over 300 times leading the league in that.

 

In 1997 he grounded into 0 double plays. So that is actually 15 or 20 extra times on base combared to the average player (over 700 plate appearances) who wouldn't of beat out the double plays.

 

His career war is very similiar to alomar's. His peak is arguably better (~10 war in 97, average of 6 or 7 from 95-99).

 

Beeston! Rage!

 

ftfy

[saskjayfan]

The hall is subjective and everyone has a different opinion....it's an old boys club voting based on ridiculous ideas....but even on this board you see wide divergence of opinion amongst fans....personally I don't see how Walker isn't in the hall. The ballot is stacking up..because there are a few guys that should have been voted in already....

[Olerud363]

ftfy

 

I was trying to go a while without mentioning that two bit sleazy accountant who lucked out in the 80s by sneaking between Gillick and Peter Hardy on the org chart.

[Boxcar]

I am happy he went for the baseless ad-hominem in there because that means he's worried stupid old farts like himself are on the way out.

 

Could this guy be more old school? Hey! It's 2013, they make basements with windows now!

[jays_fever]

I still can't get over the fact that he explicitly stated that he wasnt voting for Bagwell and someone else who i forgot now because he just didn't feel like it.

[Caper]

f*** man... Nothing makes nerds more angry then when an old timey reporter wants to vote Jack Morris to the hall of fame.

 

I think Jack Morris is the nerd litmus test.

[Boxcar]

ftfy

 

Seriously though, when I think of elite 2B from the 90s, Biggio Is the first name that comes to mind. He is a no doubter IMO. How can you vote Morris and then leave a guy like Biggio off? Do you even have a voting criteria at that point?

[GD]

Seriously though, when I think of elite 2B from the 90s, Biggio Is the first name that comes to mind. He is a no doubter IMO. How can you vote Morris and then leave a guy like Bigfoot off? Do you even have a voting criteria at that point?

 

Seriously though, when I think of elite 2B from the 90s, Biggio Is the first name that comes to mind. He is a no doubter IMO. How can you vote Morris and then leave a guy like Biggio off? Do you even have a voting criteria at that point?

 

Double post. Reported.

[Pete_7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWOQLIZGW8Y

[Terminator]

Seriously though, when I think of elite 2B from the 90s, Biggio Is the first name that comes to mind.

 

Alomar!

[Dick_Pole]

I'm willing to give voters a break this time around because the field of legitimate candidates is very large and you're only allowed to vote for 10.

 

For instance, if you think Morris and Mussina are legit HOF candidates but you already have 9 other players you are voting for then I can see you voting for Morris because his chance is almost up and Mussina's got a long way to go so you can always vote for him another year when the field is weaker.

 

Of course this argument doesn't hold ground for this jackass that picks five guys for his own random reasons.

[Olerud363]

Alomar!

 

To close to call in my humble opinion. Career stats and best 5 seasons are very close.

 

Biggio's quest for 3000 hits bumped his counting stats up a bit and bumped his rate stats down a bit. At the time they were playing both were in the discussion as best player in baseball. (Bonds was the best player of the 90s, but occassionally the "sportswriters" types would say "I'll take the middle infielder over the leftfielder".

 

It just blows my mind that Biggio isn't an instant easy call. 3000 hits and did the little things that the sportswriters and announcers go on about.

 

Grounded into 0 double plays in a 700 plate appearance season, played some catcher, Led the league in steals. Hustle. Grit. On base a lot.

 

4 gold gloves at second and 400 games at catcher. Isn't this the kind of stuff Buck Martinez would go on and on about??

[Terminator]

To close to call in my humble opinion. Career stats and best 5 seasons are very close.

 

Biggio's quest for 3000 hits bumped his counting stats up a bit and bumped his rate stats down a bit. At the time they were playing both were in the discussion as best player in baseball. (Bonds was the best player of the 90s, but occassionally the "sportswriters" types would say "I'll take the middle infielder over the leftfielder".

 

It just blows my mind that Biggio isn't an instant easy call. 3000 hits and did the little things that the sportswriters and announcers go on about.

 

Grounded into 0 double plays in a 700 plate appearance season, played some catcher, Led the league in steals. Hustle. Grit. On base a lot.

 

4 gold gloves at second and 400 games at catcher. Isn't this the kind of stuff Buck Martinez would go on and on about??

 

Oh I hear ya, just saying that on a Jays board you'd think the first name to come to mind when discussing 90's 2B would be Alomar instead of Biggio.

[Olerud363]

Oh I hear ya, just saying that on a Jays board you'd think the first name to come to mind when discussing 90's 2B would be Alomar instead of Biggio.

 

I guess there is a generation gap. Many of the posters here never saw Alomar play for the Blue Jays, or were too young to remember it.

 

Also the way it ended, Gillick defecting ("retiring and quickly unretiring") and basically taking Alomar with him, Alomar sitting out the day after the 95 trading deadline because he was to depressed, Alomar coming back as an Oriole and spitting on the ump in 96...

 

for the fans who were following in 95/96 there was a "you are dead to me" vibe.

[Boxcar]

Alomar!

 

I blame Ken Griffey Baseball for the N64. I ALWAYS traded for Biggio instead of Alomar.

[TheHurl]

Oh I hear ya, just saying that on a Jays board you'd think the first name to come to mind when discussing 90's 2B would be Alomar instead of Biggio.

 

It's interesting though that I grew up in this city (more as a Spos fan admittedly) and I remember Biggio's retirement lap (to U2) like it was yesterday but all I remember about the end of Alomar's career is the negative stuff (the rumours that he retired to keep his .300 career average). I was shocked he wasn't a first ballot guy...can't believe he might still be on the ballot next year.