The one and only Masahiro Tanaka posting and bidding thread

[jays4life19]

I have no desire to read it.. nor do i find it educational.. and most of all i rather not re visit the happenings. I believe you meant to say i refuse to have an open mind..i actually am very open minded. I was not debating i was asking how you knew this to be fact and you made reference to read the book.. you could have just said alex said it in the book.. but i doubt he did..I'm sure it's all speculative

 

Alex did not make any reference to the marlins trade, in shi's book. God, Don't you understand you look really f***ing stupid when you have no working knowledge of something yet want to comment on it.

 

Let me remind you of your recent post.

 

Wtf @ brilliant lineup?? Did you watch the games last year?? There was no direction.. terrible defense and hacking wildly at every pitch was far from showing any signs of brilliance... the negatively has spawned from making every wrong move possible in the last 4 years...

 

This is why all moves now or lack of aren't backed with positivity... let's take a look here...we traded Halladay for busts and went on to win 85 games..what was Halladays WAR that year??? Oops..not properly evaluating talent we have?? Id say..then we don't bother with Darvish because of the risk or whatever the lame reason was.. "not ready" i think it was.. well didn't we just win 85 games.. might want to think about replacing the void doc left?? Nah. Alright after another crap season it's time to compete.. let's spend 40 million a year on two players and let the best one of the deal walk after a year with no compensation.. MASTERMIND..let's stand pat in purgatory now because we are confused as to what to do because everything hasn't worked out in the past???

 

I have nothing else to say.

[jays4life19]

You seem really agitated.. possibly why you're not making much sense or making good arguments.. I read a few excerpts from the book and it sounds like AA was not a man having his strings pulled... i believe the years previous he was working under payroll constraints and did well with it and when he got the green light this is what he came up with... i doubt beest was doing the dirty work for him

 

Read the book. Then maybe we can debate it.

[jays4life19]

k but it would be quicker just to tell me what you read because i would actually take you're word for it

 

AA was going to call the trade off. He didn't think it was necessary that Jeff Mathis had to be part of the trade - something that the Marlins insisted on. (lol). He had just signed Mathis and didn't really have a boner for the trade. The FO was split. When Beeston found out he was going to call it off because of Mathis. ( shows that AA really wasn't that thrilled about the trade) Beeston said we were "selling entertainment" and pushed the trade.

[jays4life19]

Again, AA came up with the trade ... he pushed it. Took it to the CEO of the entire company in order to get a special payroll allowance to allow the trade to happen with all of the expensive parts already involved.

 

As to Beeston's role ... he didn't take it to him when the Mathis issue came to be. AA talked to his crew, they said Beeston wouldn't like it if he knew it was killed because of Mathis, and AA finally decided to pull the trigger on the deal that he dreamt up (minus some minor details like Mathis) ... and only after it was completed did he inform Beeston of his hesitancy, and Beeston made his comments.

 

This was AA's baby.

 

I guess we will agree to disagree.

[jays4life19]

I think AA is exaggerating the Mathis thing to deflect

 

Sigh....

[LunchBox]

Jimenez's 2011 was pretty bad as well. He's not worth 17-20M at all. It's most likely he ends up back in Cleveland on a 1-year deal because draft pick compensation destroys his market, as no team is going to give that kind of money to a guy who is incredibly wild and really had one good season back in 2010.

 

Uh, his 2011 season was in no way "pretty bad" lol. He's also had a lot more than "one good season" 3.9, 5.6, 6.5, 3.3, 3.2 WAR seasons, so...yeah.

 

From whom? Rumor had the Yankees being interested, but it would be a terrible idea as his walk and frequently elevated HR rate outside of 2013 would get him destroyed at Yankee Stadium. Same with Toronto. D-Backs are apparently also in the mix as well.

 

He is going to have to reduce his demand if anyone is going to want him. $17-20M is too high for a guy who walks 4 per 9 IP and hasn't been elite since 2010.

 

Aside from a horrendous 2012 his HR rate is not even remotely high, he' s a much better target than Santana in that sense. He also doesn't need to be "elite" to justify that salary, only to out preform it.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Give it 45 days after the off season is over - shall we make a lil wager on the Jays standings?

 

I don't bet.

[L54]

I thought it was to make the Organization better? Guess under your train of thought Friedman isn't really all that bright seeing as most of his trades look to pay dividends in the near future/future.

 

Its a shame the Jays went and got all hell bent urgent at winning and the fans lapped it up.

 

I guess if you truly believe that Aaron Sanchez will become a legitimate #2 in a quality rotation, it's not a good idea. I can't help but think that landing Shark with an extension for Sanchez plus a lower level B prospect would help propel this rotation.

 

Look, I get it. I don't like the direction this team is headed in either. I'd rather blow it up and take on prospects too for guys like Bautista, Reyes and Edwin. I just don't see AA going the Miami Marlins route a year and a half after he was on the other end of the deal.

 

Shark, along with healthy years from the entire staff and position players, and I do believe the team is close.

 

Also, Sanchez for Shark is nowhere near the same as Wil Myers for Shields, or the raping he'll give another team when he trades Price.

[GD]

No. You're just objectively and unequivocally wrong.

 

Christ you're argumentative. Leave it be, lol.

[LunchBox]

You should edit the contents of this post before there's another David Robertson scenario. For further explanation, refer to pages 14-19 of this thread

[GD]

You should edit the contents of this post before there's another David Robertson scenario. For further explanation, refer to pages 14-19 of this thread

 

who's to say that wasn't my plan

[LunchBox]

lol well then you're a horrible person. It's unbelievable how much of this thread is already totally unreadable and that's with CHP on ignore.

 

My comment was actually directed to Moogy, you're obviously the mastermind though, apologies.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I guess if you truly believe that Aaron Sanchez will become a legitimate #2 in a quality rotation, it's not a good idea. I can't help but think that landing Shark with an extension for Sanchez plus a lower level B prospect would help propel this rotation.

 

Propel the rotation to what? You still have a gaping hole at 2B, a stop gap catcher, a big question mark in LF if Melky's pencilled to start and you have another 11-13M/per maybe more on the books with Samardzija in-house. So Samardzija a nice now addition, on a team I don't see contending means what? Bigger name players on a team still a couple pieces away.

[GD]

lol well then you're a horrible person.

 

This has been previously established.

 

This is my favorite thread lol.

[xposbrad]

Propel the rotation to what? You still have a gaping hole at 2B, a stop gap catcher, a big question mark in LF if Melky's pencilled to start and you have another 11-13M/per maybe more on the books with Samardzija in-house. So Samardzija a nice now addition, on a team I don't see contending means what? Bigger name players on a team still a couple pieces away.

 

Well the Jays could solidify their finish in second to last place in the division I guess. Other than that ya, going after Shark with 2 arb years left and not adding more pieces wouldn't make much sense. It's not as if he's signed super cheap for a long time. He'd also require giving up 1-2 good prospects. Not the best long term strategic move.

[connorp]

Propel the rotation to what? You still have a gaping hole at 2B, a stop gap catcher, a big question mark in LF if Melky's pencilled to start and you have another 11-13M/per maybe more on the books with Samardzija in-house. So Samardzija a nice now addition, on a team I don't see contending means what? Bigger name players on a team still a couple pieces away.

 

For arguments sake, lets just say AS is a shark or maybe slightly better in 3 years.

 

Exactly what are you projecting around him in 3 years to say it would not be better to add to roster this year and next?

 

AA has a brief history of poor draft stategy and development.

 

Zero position prospects of note most likely. Lawrie..good glove, avg bat.. All the money mostly off the books as players will be too old but it would be a total rebuild.

 

Jays got lucky to have JB and Edwin fall into their lap..should build around them before we get to a 6 year Houston cycle

[LunchBox]

Or he's stockpiling pitching via the draft because he realized that controllable position players with upside are more available at the major league level. Not just JB and EE, Rasmus and Lawrie as well. Even Melky Cabrera is a good example, coming of 3.7 and 4.4 WAR seasons and he signed for 8 million/season, what type of contract do you think an equivalent performing pitcher would have netted in FA?

[LunchBox]

The Colon situation has some similarities, but it's hardly a perfect comparison. Regardless, the point stands, no teams are selling low on talented, controllable SPing, thus drafting it in abundance is in no way "poor draft strategy".

[LunchBox]

Relative to starting pitching? Absolutely.

[LunchBox]

Carlos Gomez, Chris Davis, Adam Jones, Encarnacion, Rasmus, Escobar. Sure some of them were traded in exchange for other good players, others didn't come with that many controllable years ect. "Major league ready" probably would have been a better choice of words. Maybe it's a perceptual bias, but it certainly appears that teams are more willing to give up on young position players than pitchers.

[leaffie]

Not to change the subject, but Scott Boras was just on XM and he said that the Tanaka rate has been set at, (at least), 7 years $140 million, and that several teams have complied. Didn't sound like posturing to me.

[LunchBox]

Fair enough, I'll admit my choice of wording was poor. However, I stand behind the notion that drafting and developing almost exclusively starting pitching is not "poor strategy". The team displayed in your avatar has built their success upon recognizing the demand for SPing, consequently developing it themselves and piecing together many of their position players and bullpen arms.

[LunchBox]

They could draft exclusively first baseman in the first ten rounds for all I care, so long as superior talent isn't being passed over.

[connorp]

I would love to see the data on how many hs arms taken after say the 12th overall pick until end of say second round..

 

So we exclude the blue chip pegged franchise-SP the Jays have never drafted in AA's tenure. They are a diff breed. But hs arms with major upside between 12 overall say to end of Round 2.

 

Wonder what % of thosE guys ever put up a 2.5 WAR season.. Or two such seasons.

 

I wont toss a number out of my rear end but i bet its pretty low.

[o2cui2i]

Yes, best player available sounds right.

 

I think AA intentionally took a first round pick he knew wouldn't sign. last years draft was seen a fairly weak and most expect 2014 to be much stronger. now AA has an extra pick this coming year.

[Abomination]

I think AA intentionally took a first round pick he knew wouldn't sign. last years draft was seen a fairly weak and most expect 2014 to be much stronger. now AA has an extra pick this coming year.

 

I don't think he took one he knew wouldn't sign as much as he took one that he felt would have huge upside if he DID sign, with the thought that it didn't really matter if he didn't.

[TheHurl]

I would love to see the data on how many hs arms taken after say the 12th overall pick until end of say second round..

 

So we exclude the blue chip pegged franchise-SP the Jays have never drafted in AA's tenure. They are a diff breed. But hs arms with major upside between 12 overall say to end of Round 2.

 

Wonder what % of thosE guys ever put up a 2.5 WAR season.. Or two such seasons.

 

I wont toss a number out of my rear end but i bet its pretty low.

 

 

I'm just going to do 7.5 career bWAR cause individual seasons are too tough to look up. I'll choose 2000 to 2007 for this. Numbers are pretty low.

 

2000 34 drafted, 1 (Adam Wainwright)

2001 33 & 2 (Lowry and Haren)

2002 29 & 6 Kazmir, Hamels, Guthrie, Cain, Lester & Crain

2003 27 & 2 Baker, Billingsly

2004 32 & 4 Gonzalez, Street, Vargas, Gallardo

2005 37 & 2 Garza, Buchholz

2006 35 & 3 Kennedy, Cahill, Masterson

2007 34 & 1 Zimmerman

 

12 college, 9 HS (although the 9 high school include the most successful of the bunch (Hamels, Wainwright, Lester and Cain.

Edited January 3, 2014 by TheHurl

[o2cui2i]

I don't think he took one he knew wouldn't sign as much as he took one that he felt would have huge upside if he DID sign, with the thought that it didn't really matter if he didn't.

 

I dont think he ever expected to make the signing.

 

article from "hardballtalk"

 

When asked yesterday Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos told reporters that he didn’t expect to sign first-round pick Phil Bickford and sure enough the signing deadline just passed without the deal.

 

Bickford, a high school pitcher from California who went No. 10 overall, will instead head to college at Cal-State Fullerton. The slot recommended bonus for the 10th pick is $2.9 million, although it’s not clear what the Blue Jays actually offered Bickford. He was considered a “tough sign” going into the draft, so the Blue Jays knew what they were getting into.

 

They’ll also receive the No. 11 pick in next year’s draft as compensation for failing to sign him, so it’s hardly a disastrous scenario. It could be for Bickford, though, depending on how he pitches in college and whether he can stay healthy for the next few years. Recent history has not been very kind to pitchers who passed up big signing bonuses coming out of high school.

[raBBit]

I dont think he ever expected to make the signing.

 

article from "hardballtalk"

 

The 11th pick in the 2014 draft is far more valuable than last years draft. Obviously it all matters who is picked, but on paper the odds are better for the upcoming draft.

[connorp]

I'm just going to do 7.5 career bWAR cause individual seasons are too tough to look up. I'll choose 2000 to 2007 for this. Numbers are pretty low.

 

2000 34 drafted, 1 (Adam Wainwright)

2001 33 & 2 (Lowry and Haren)

2002 29 & 6 Kazmir, Hamels, Guthrie, Cain, Lester & Crain

2003 27 & 2 Baker, Billingsly

2004 32 & 4 Gonzalez, Street, Vargas, Gallardo

2005 37 & 2 Garza, Buchholz

2006 35 & 3 Kennedy, Cahill, Masterson

2007 34 & 1 Zimmerman

 

12 college, 9 HS (although the 9 high school include the most successful of the bunch (Hamels, Wainwright, Lester and Cain.

 

Yeah so basically the ratio was comfortably under 10% for guys that mattered. Thanks for the lookup