Around Baseball 2014

[GD]

Not great, I don't think.

[Nox]

I believe there are calculated from Total Zone. Don't know anything about how reliable these numbers are though.

 

Over the course of a career, Total Zone is probably better than UZR. UZR better in smaller samples.

[Angrioter]

Pirates traded first baseman Ike Davis to the A's.

[Angrioter]

Red Sox trying for mega-free agent double play: Panda and Hanley

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24834591/red-sox-trying-tof-mega-free-agent-double-play-panda-and-hanley

[burlingtonbandit]

Red Sox trying for mega-free agent double play: Panda and Hanley

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24834591/red-sox-trying-tof-mega-free-agent-double-play-panda-and-hanley

 

That would be dumb..They have Bogaerts who probably puts up better numbers than Hanley in the next 3 years.

 

Edit: I think if they sign Hanley to be the LF/DH that would be really stupid... Melky would be the much better fit in LF for them and has a good chance to have close to the same offensive numbers while being half the price.

[jaysfan2014]

Red Sox trying for mega-free agent double play: Panda and Hanley

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24834591/red-sox-trying-tof-mega-free-agent-double-play-panda-and-hanley

 

Of course, this may be just a smoke screen to get Sandoval to sign.. Boston has many other needs, especially pitching. Wasting $40-45M on Sandoval and Ramirez is not a good use of money, especially when they need 2-3 pitchers in that rotation, along with bullpen help.

[Angrioter]

[Atothe]

 

I like this deal if true 4/80 for a potential 4 win player

[jaysfan2014]

 

Either this means Sandoval is resigning with the Giants or signing with the Padres, or the Red Sox are putting HanRam in the OF and getting Sandoval for 3B. It's also possible that Middlebrooks and/or Cecchini may be on the block along with others to get an ace SP.

[Atothe]

michael cuddyer is an idiot for turning down the QO

[xposbrad]

Of course, this may be just a smoke screen to get Sandoval to sign.. Boston has many other needs, especially pitching. Wasting $40-45M on Sandoval and Ramirez is not a good use of money, especially when they need 2-3 pitchers in that rotation, along with bullpen help.

 

Well they have an open offer to Lester, who arguably is better than any blue jays pitcher. Looks like the red sox and their rebuild won't take too long, especially with their prospects too. If they sign Panda, Lester, Ramirez, they will be the favorites in the AL east next year. It's ok though, the Blue Jays have a very solid catcher who can frame.

[Atothe]

Well they have an open offer to Lester, who arguably is better than any blue jays pitcher. Looks like the red sox and their rebuild won't take too long, especially with their prospects too. If they sign Panda, Lester, Ramirez, they will be the favorites in the AL east next year. It's ok though, the Blue Jays have a very solid catcher who can frame.

 

I doubt they get all three, red sox aren't stupid

[xposbrad]

I doubt they get all three, red sox aren't stupid

 

Well, I like Ramirez better than Sandoval for them, just because of his versatility and he's not weight challenged. But, mlbtraderumors is saying they want Ramirez and Sandoval. So, it does look like they want all 3 including lester.

 

I think they are trying to get Sandoval to sign based on them getting Ramirez, kind of like the Wade/Lebron miami heat signings.

[burlingtonbandit]

Well, I like Ramirez better than Sandoval for them, just because of his versatility and he's not weight challenged. But, mlbtraderumors is saying they want Ramirez and Sandoval. So, it does look like they want all 3 including lester.

 

Wanting and getting are 2 very different things.

[xposbrad]

Wanting and getting are 2 very different things.

 

I know, the Blue Jays wanted many guys over the years, except they aren't the Red Sox who made the playoffs 10 out of the last 20 or so years. Players want to experience winning and that's why Sandoval is leaning towards the Red Sox offer. The Red Sox have direction, so if there's one team aside from the Yankees who could sign all 3, you know it's them.

[Atothe]

I know, the Blue Jays wanted many guys over the years, except they aren't the Red Sox who made the playoffs 10 out of the last 20 or so years. Players want to experience winning and that's why Sandoval is leaning towards the Red Sox offer. The Red Sox have direction, so if there's one team aside from the Yankees who could sign all 3, you know it's them.

 

If they get all three, that's payroll flexibility suicide. Hanley in three years will probably be done as a player, panda will not age gracefully and Lester i have no idea what type of deal they're offering

[xposbrad]

If they get all three, that's payroll flexibility suicide. Hanley in three years will probably be done as a player, panda will not age gracefully and Lester i have no idea what type of deal they're offering

 

So Hanley will be done as a 33 year old but Martin will still be catching at 35/36 years old, cool.

[jaysfan2014]

If they get all three, that's payroll flexibility suicide. Hanley in three years will probably be done as a player, panda will not age gracefully and Lester i have no idea what type of deal they're offering

 

And they also need Ortiz and Pedroia to avoid regression.. as for HanRam, he's been increasingly fragile, missing chunks of time with the Marlins and Dodgers in recent years, along with being one of the worst SS in baseball(only Escobar was worse), and his time at 3B with the Marlins wasn't any better. I dread how he would be in LF defensively.. As for Sandoval, he's been regressing every year offensively since 2011.. and what'll happen to his D in a few years? Huge guys like him don't age well...

 

And the Red Sox have only made the playoffs once in the 2010s..

[burlingtonbandit]

So Hanley will be done as a 33 year old but Martin will still be catching at 35/36 years old, cool.

 

I don't think anyone expects Martin to be very good in the last couple years of his deal. The one thing he has going for him is that pitch framing doesn't really decline and he will still be decent defensively. And for a guy who seems to really understand bio analytics if there is a case for a guy to age gracefully it is probably him.

 

As for your previous point the Red Sox could very easily get all 3, but it would be a huge cost. Any team could get all 3 if they overpay enough but teams know that it would kill the team's payroll.

[KingKat]

I don't think anyone expects Martin to be very good in the last couple years of his deal. The one thing he has going for him is that pitch framing doesn't really decline and he will still be decent defensively. And for a guy who seems to really understand bio analytics if there is a case for a guy to age gracefully it is probably him.

 

As for your previous point the Red Sox could very easily get all 3, but it would be a huge cost. Any team could get all 3 if they overpay enough but teams know that it would kill the team's payroll.

 

Martin is much a better defensive player at his age than Hanley is at his. You shouldn't have to worry about moving Martin down the defensive spectrum any time soon. That's a big difference between the two.

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't think he'll be any worse than a 3 win guy.

 

Not including Framing? I think his framing will regress a bit as the seasons move on anyways as it has the last 3 seasons. Umpires will become more and more aware of it and start to call the strikezone better.

[burlingtonbandit]

Martin is much a better defensive player at his age than Hanley is at his. You shouldn't have to worry about moving Martin down the defensive spectrum any time soon. That's a big difference between the two.

 

I wasn't trying to compare the 2 but rather talk about Martin's decline. History has shown catcher's offence can decline rather quickly but if anyone is going to break the trend I think Martin has a good shot because of how serious he trains.

[glory]

If the Red Sox are signing Hanley to play SS and Panda to play 3B, then I'm not sure what they are doing.

[ElNik2013]

Where's Ramirez gonna play? We should remember that Papi Ortiz will f***ing decline, (won't he!?), and that would open up the DH spot for a guy like Ramirez or little Pandi.

 

I wonder what it would take to get Jackie Bradley Jr. Probably would have to be a 3-teamer, but he's probably the odd-man out with all the OF they have.

[burlingtonbandit]

Why would I not include framing? Framing is still relative to league.

 

I was just wondering if you were. I don't think you can really predict framing 4-5 years down the line because every year umpires are seeming to get more aware of it which will skew the numbers.

[burlingtonbandit]

5/90 for Hanley in Boston according to Kenny R.

[KingKat]

5/90 for Hanley in Boston according to Kenny R.

 

Hanley comes home.

[jaysfan2014]

Hanley comes home.

 

Still, where's he gonna play? SS is blocked with Bogaerts (barring a trade.. and neither Bogaerts or HanRam are good at SS), and there's still questions whether Sandoval signs. And LF.. don't they have enough OFs as is?

[KingKat]

Still, where's he gonna play? SS is blocked with Bogaerts (barring a trade.. and neither Bogaerts or HanRam are good at SS), and there's still questions whether Sandoval signs. And LF.. don't they have enough OFs as is?

 

Yeah it's kind of a mess roster wise.

[jaysfan2014]

Yeah it's kind of a mess roster wise.

 

And Sandoval looks poised to sign, 5 years/about $100M.. holy overpay, Batman!

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/11/24/report-pablo-sandoval-agrees-to-terms-with-red-sox/

 

Something about these deals screams desperation.. Cherington must be under orders to put a decent team on the field or else, no rebuilding allowed! When they finish, likely trading for SP and maybe getting Lester back, the team will have an empty farm system and no payroll flexibility again.. the same thing the got Boston in trouble in 2011-12 and caused the Dodgers to bail them out. Not gonna happen this time.. Dodgers have payroll issues themselves.